State of the Peloton 2024

[Monoxidator]

To me CO completely fails to explain the insane level increases we see during a Grand Tour.

It apparently has a bigger effect than EPO ... a 3 week session in trained cyclists saw a 5% increase in VO2 and Hemoglobin levels.

 

[Monoxidator]

If it works by EPO gene expression then it should simply show up in blood values and hematocrit. How are you gonna beat 60%?

Best guess? $$. But I'm sure there's loopholes as well ... if they're at altitude all the time, and the hematocrit levels gradually increase every time, and it's a stair-step effect where when they come down from altitude they never drop all the way back to normal, and then the next round of "altitude" jumps them just a bit past their previous max ... it could seem explicable to the testing bodies.

 

[red_flanders]

If it works by EPO gene expression then it should simply show up in blood values and hematocrit. How are you gonna beat 60%?

I don’t know about 60%. But to the rest, “Altitude Camps” plus the governing bodies stopped caring some time ago. Show must go on. Plausible deniability and all that.

I dunno. That’s where my head is at. It’s not a deep thought. Could certainly be wrong.

What is certain is that those in the sport aren’t comforting themselves with better training and smoother roads. All that stuff absolutely must make a difference. But they can’t think it’s clean, so they either don’t care, don’t have a way to stop it, or both.

 

[Scarponi]

In Mario Kart 64 you could race your personal best time as a ghost. We need them to put the Pantani line on the telecast like they do with swimming world records now lol

 

[Tim Cahill]

Honestly wouldn't mind that much, it's always been there at the front of the tour in various guises.

It's just annoying me that they aren't letting breaks have their day anymore, there were 3 GC winners in todays break with some GC top 10ers and monument winners, they were absolutely nowhere. Hindley, Yates, Mas and Carapaz going backwards like they were children.

 

[houtdffan]

Here's the answer:

Prof. Dr. Walter Schmidt

www.profilfelder.uni-bayreuth.de

The good Dr. Walter Schmidt's research ... he's been building up his protocols for CO dosing since 2013. He's been studying Hypoxia's effects on the body since 1990's. WADA saw it and ...

There's a reason they're always "at altitude" ... it's not just standard live high train low stuff ... they're artificially inducing extreme altitude adaptations in the human body with CO (and possibly other things as well). Effing dangerous if kids start doing that. Totally irresponsible but I think the cat's out of the bag.

They are literally using the same thing (CO) that was used to exterminate millions during WW2?

I think I'd rather have the motors...

 

[meat puppet]

The only question is which is faster Pog climbing or human evolution

E: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/it...-by-pogacar-and-vingegaard-at-tour-de-france/

 

[solo80k]

If CO is so low cost and so effective, annyone should be going full *** on that stuff and gaps between riders shouldn't be so isnane

And almost everyone is riding at insane pace, fastest Giro ever, probably the fastest Tour as well.

 

[Monoxidator]

If CO is so low cost and so effective, annyone should be going full *** on that stuff and gaps between riders shouldn't be so isnane

It's also effing dangerous as hell ... there's a reason someone developed special equipment to test for CO adaptation. The better control and the better the protocol the more effective it's going to be. That's why expensive equipment is being used, that's why the richest teams with the best doctors are winning.

 

[red_flanders]

If CO is so low cost and so effective, annyone should be going full *** on that stuff and gaps between riders shouldn't be so isnane

Are these gaps so different than what we’ve seen historically? Aren’t MANY riders beating these previous records? Isn’t every stage raced at shocking speeds? At some point some guys are just better. Seems to me what we’re seeing maps quite well to widespread use of…something.

Most plausible explanation I’ve heard yet.

If it’s accessible to all the teams, and these guys aren’t truly harming themselves, I actually don’t have a huge issue with it.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Well, how many more years can they keep improving? At some point human physiology and the aerobic system will become the limiting factor.

I do wonder if "testing postitive for Covid" is the new food poisoning, aka the go to excuse if doping and re-fueling backfires and you're suddenly crap.

 

[Monoxidator]

Are these gaps so different than what we’ve seen historically? Aren’t MANY riders beating these previous records? Isn’t every stage raced at shocking speeds? At some point some guys are just better. Seems to me what we’re seeing maps quite well to widespread use of…something.

Most plausible explanation I’ve heard yet.

If it’s accessible to all the teams, and these guys aren’t truly harming themselves, I actually don’t have a huge issue with it.

I think once this starts making its way into amateur ranks it becomes very very dangerous. I think it should be banned.

 

[Rackham]

Are these gaps so different than what we’ve seen historically? Aren’t MANY riders beating these previous records? Isn’t every stage raced at shocking speeds? At some point some guys are just better. Seems to me what we’re seeing maps quite well to widespread use of…something.

Most plausible explanation I’ve heard yet.

If it’s accessible to all the teams, and these guys aren’t truly harming themselves, I actually don’t have a huge issue with it.

Professionalisation should mean gaps between riders would be shrinking, surely? If everything we hear about nutrition & equipment was true, then there should be a real battle at the top of the sport because it would equalize levels, i.e. whereas in the past the gaps in the Merckx era (for example) really were huge because pro dopers were riding against a bunch of semi pros... who were probably also doping but not as efficiently. Rinse repeat 1980's, 1990's & 2000's.

We basically haven't seen gaps like these & performance differences of this sort since 2009, IMO. That's when Contador walked the Tour in Bruyneel's team before he lost a level or two for reasons we know.

The real killer (to use a Sean Kelly-ism) & total unmasking of the man behind the curtain is today on Stage 15 there's nowhere for the people who believe in miracles to hide. It was a hard multi col Pyrenean slog (this has often been used to handwave mutant performances in modern cycling by claiming unipuerto stages favor record breaking), it was raced super hard from the beginning with Visma on the front (again, stages raced at a slower speed behind a breakaway have been used to minimize ascent speeds by claiming the riders were fresh) & this stage came the day after another Pyrenean stage at the end of week 2 just before rest day.

Aka on paper, the stage was set for for fatigue to slow the riders. They should be tired.

I'll speculate here but in old currency (aka dope terminology from 20 years ago) what happened was a blood bag bonanza. In that scenario Vinge did his last night in order to save his TdF after yesterday's defeat, hence why Visma drilled it today. I can only imagine what Pog has done to be at this level. The mind boggles.

 

[ice&fire]

I think once this starts making its way into amateur ranks it becomes very very dangerous. I think it should be banned.

Is there a reliable method for detecting its use?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I still don't understand what happened today. This is at least 2 minutes (freaking 5% or more) less than the time expected from absolutely peak mutants. Tailwind at every hairpin? (i.e. a tornado following our heroes). The level was so much higher than in the previous stages. It's clear that JV planned it for a long time (like Combloux bomb last year) but maybe the gap to Pogacar forced them to do it earlier. UAE surely planned it as well. As a result the perfect storm happened: Vingo nuked the peleton with ridiculous performance but Teddy outnuked him at the end, which is mind-boogling. For the first time I feel weird after Pogacar's win. I mean, I'm very tolerant regarding doping as long as it's still organic engine deciding the winner. I hope it's still it but for the first time I have some doubts.

 

[AmRacer]

3 riders broke the old record today. One of them by 4 minutes.

Didn't Landa also broke the record

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Obviously perfect storm of many circumstances. Physiologically - I think it's very clear that Pogacar and Vingegaard barely tire from the climbing a full stage at a pace that leaves around 15 dudes by the final climb.

Yeah, in the meantime I added "perfect storm" to my post

Vingo pacing Pogacar made it kinda "mutants team time trial". Still, absolutely amazing level and also ridiculous gaps to the rest.

 

[red_flanders]

3 riders broke the old record today. One of them by 4 minutes.

Would we not find a whole bunch of people getting very close, with 4 beating it very surprising? After yesterday when like 10 people beat that record? I mean, it’s just nuts.

 

[houtdffan]

I wonder when we will see a 45 minute ascent of Mt. Ventoux?

 

[ppanther92]

Well, how many more years can they keep improving? At some point human physiology and the aerobic system will become the limiting factor.

Idk, but saying in the RR thread already - I fully expect Pogacar and Vingegaard to be even better next year. Because why not? Without Giro and injury?

 

[markene2]

Sophisticated medical program pluss upgraded models of motodoping is the only answer to such large leaps in performance.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Idk, but saying in the RR thread already - I fully expect Pogacar and Vingegaard to be even better next year. Because why not? Without Giro and injury?

Who says he (or both for that matter) won't go for the double again?

 

[Forever The Best]

Covid-19 made them want to win more.
Also apparently dominating Liege and Giro is the best preparation for the Tour. And apparently having a punctured lung in Pais Vasco is a great preparation too.

 

[AmRacer]

Who says he (or both for that matter) won't go for the double again?

Jonas has yet to win the Giro and Vuelta.
Pog has the Vuelta left to win.
I won't be surprised if Jonas tries the Giro-Tour double next year.

 

[TrekCyclist]

Somehow have the feeling, that something strange happened during the Covid years. Was it the one year without any meaningful testing outside of competitions? Maybe that freedom opened the doors to try out some new methods.
Its not only in cycling, but in athletics you have 400m hurdles race, that was completely nuts (Tokyo Olympics), and the crazy Marathon WR.