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If cardiovascular attributes were visible the way muscles are, these guys would be bigger than Ronnie Coleman. The lack of visibility to the naked eye is the biggest factor in making it all believable.
Something new is definitely on the scene, no way this is just blood and EPO.
Something new is definitely on the scene, no way this is just blood and EPO.
Artificial altitude adaptations forced by slowly poisoning the body, masked by actual high altitude training.
Cav group riding faster than the GC group? Nah....
and because he's been the ninja of the Tour so far it's going almost unnoticed
I fear it will take a major incident like Colbrelli having a heart attack before things will change. Either that or a big police bust since people and organizations within cycling are taking omerta to the next level too.
If Visma and UAE are going to totally dominate races, then hopefully the guys getting beat by minutes even though they're riding their pesonal bests, spill the beans. When even the World champ MvdP complains about the crazy watts, then something's amiss. Also guys not going in the break. Why bother huh?
If Visma and UAE are going to totally dominate races, then hopefully the guys getting beat by minutes even though they're riding their pesonal bests, spill the beans. When even the World champ MvdP complains about the crazy watts, then something's amiss. Also guys not going in the break. Why bother huh?
Seriously guys, what do we recon the riders are on these days, surley it's a new undetectable drug? (like EPO in the 90's).
I simply refuse to believe they are motor doping.
I simply refuse to believe they are motor doping.
A heart attack probably wouldn't change a thing. Colbrelli's didn't.
As long as viewers buy it, and continue to buy ridiculously priced stuff, all's good I guess.
As long as viewers buy it, and continue to buy ridiculously priced stuff, all's good I guess.
Tom D knew and said "I am not doing it", after probably being involved heavily before and in 2020. Then crashing out mentally and physically. Either you in or you out.
I've not commented yesterday because I was still in disbelief about the entire circus. Unbelievable that the Landani joke is not a joke anymore
It's wild how the top two defy every metric, including fan preconceptions about their worth versus the other.
Now it's Vingegaard who is on the backfoot. Next year he needs to not only catch-up but actually surpass Pog's level. Can they do it? UAE managed to dramatically improve their rider year-on-year, but can Visma achieve the same?
The challenge is simple: beat Pantani's Plateau de Beille ascent time by 5 minutes instead of 4, notwithstanding Pog's own potential improvements next year as well.
Now it's Vingegaard who is on the backfoot. Next year he needs to not only catch-up but actually surpass Pog's level. Can they do it? UAE managed to dramatically improve their rider year-on-year, but can Visma achieve the same?
The challenge is simple: beat Pantani's Plateau de Beille ascent time by 5 minutes instead of 4, notwithstanding Pog's own potential improvements next year as well.
The 'challenge' is probably also how to achieve all of this without ending up like Colbrelli & Nathan van Hooydonck.
Still getting my head around yesterday, as with Vinge time trial last year, feel a bit shocked and numb even given the exploits we've got used to from the two who've dominated the Tour this decade. I guess the gloves come off, the teams throw everything they've got at a key stage and their true level is revealed. And as with that TT last year one of them has destroyed the field and the other was still way ahead of them.
It's not just the rest of the peloton looking like amateurs, past tour-winning performances look laughable and limited in comparison, even some of those known to be juiced. Not a lot of scraps for the rest of the peloton right now, that break of good climbers just looked amateurish. I'll be interested to see some of the comments from other teams and riders. I'm not the most dedicated fan of any of the guys right at the top but as with any sport I do appreciate exceptional performances. But sometimes it's just too much.
It's not just the rest of the peloton looking like amateurs, past tour-winning performances look laughable and limited in comparison, even some of those known to be juiced. Not a lot of scraps for the rest of the peloton right now, that break of good climbers just looked amateurish. I'll be interested to see some of the comments from other teams and riders. I'm not the most dedicated fan of any of the guys right at the top but as with any sport I do appreciate exceptional performances. But sometimes it's just too much.
Froome already discovered it but he f*cked up his preparation for the Tour by not delivering in the spring classics. So I think LBL was the key prep here, period.
The more I think the less yesterday makes sense. 3:30 on the previous record, set by Pantani (the greatest climber in cycling history before yesterday) in 1998 Tour, at the end of a very tough stage? Motors?
Jonas and Remco also beat Pantani, and Landa was almost there.
people need to stop comparing climbing times to Pantani, he was just bald Landa
Yeah and Jonas with perfect preparation may have been up there with Pogacar, so the same question would apply to him too.
Remco was ridiculous too, I think the motors question may apply to all 3 teams and their superdomestiques.
It was like watching cycling from before they introduced EPO tests (& even before hematocrit ceiling was brought in). I don't think they're motordoping but I do believe blood doping & playing with the science is completely out of control. The UCI is probably totally corrupt as well, as is the ASO.
All the usual excuses we've heard in recent years which attempt to handwave the destruction of the climbing records set by the most notorious dopers of the 1990's went out the window yesterday.
Long stage (197km), hard stage with 4 cat 1 cols & 1 HC col, fast pace with Visma drilling it on the front so the break was never over 4 minutes ahead & it was stage 15, just before the second rest day when riders should be theoretically cooked (for example the similar stage in the 2020 TdF was the Grand-Colombier stage 15 in which Jumbo drilled a small bunch to the line & 12 riders were within a minute of each other at the end).
There are no excuses for what we watched yesterday. It was farcical. It's not the same sport as 4 years ago. Hell, it's not the same sport as 12 months ago. In 2020 LPdBF was the outlier, in 2021 & 2022 it became the norm. In 2023 Combloux was the outlier, now in 2024 it's the norm.
It's an express elevator down into cycling delirium.
What kind of motor would you like to use here…? I can agree some exhibitions e.g. Cavendish is looking extremely suspicious with chain dropping at the finish line (not for the first time), but I wonder how could it help on a monstrous climb. You need to sacrifice the bike weight for power, the batteries weight a lot. You want to use such setup for 10-20 minutes which is really long, and it's producing noise, heat when there are tons of spectators around. Any random spectator can measure a temperature of your bike with remote FLIR camera, they can observe major fluctuations on the fly.
Monitored CO poisoning is some interesting path for sure. You can combine CO poisoning with a fresh, oxidated blood bag and you are getting a huge boost in theory. The typical downside is probably the risk for your health. CO is highly toxic so it's not something you can do on your own, you need to work with your team. You can also have to calculate the dosage carefully for each rider and monitor the CO concentration effects frequently.
I also think some guys can feel very unwell under such treatment or simply refuse to poison themselves with CO (as if using other steroids or hormones weren't consider poisoning by your body).
Today, Remco brought the tsar bomba to the race. Biggest nuke ever dropped on the peloton. Shattered Pantani's record (Remco has no business breaking Pantani's records!).
He learned a lesson. Never bring a nuke to an anti matter fight. Better bring a bigger weapon
We are in an all out arms race by 3 of the biggest historical doping teams
Just wait until Red Bull really gets into this. That's when the arms race gets even more absurd (because they actually have the budget to make bikes much faster. They'll spend what they need to to win, see what they do in F1)
He learned a lesson. Never bring a nuke to an anti matter fight. Better bring a bigger weapon
We are in an all out arms race by 3 of the biggest historical doping teams
Just wait until Red Bull really gets into this. That's when the arms race gets even more absurd (because they actually have the budget to make bikes much faster. They'll spend what they need to to win, see what they do in F1)
As per @noob's request let me share something.
I was at a conference the other day and I found a science gem I thought you guys might enjoy for better or worse.
This was one of the Keynotes:
It's pretty crazy, what that means that they are trying to make something like artificial photosynthesis for animals (in this case the target group is humans), so we can cover 20% of our energy needs by just spending time in light. Via permanent gene therapy. They already tested it on some worms and they actually got 20% older than the controll group.
So while I don't think this is what they are doing, it just goes to show what apparently is possible and what kind of roads are thought about in medicine to manipulate our bodies. Who knows what on earth they good be doing.
I was at a conference the other day and I found a science gem I thought you guys might enjoy for better or worse.
This was one of the Keynotes:
It's pretty crazy, what that means that they are trying to make something like artificial photosynthesis for animals (in this case the target group is humans), so we can cover 20% of our energy needs by just spending time in light. Via permanent gene therapy. They already tested it on some worms and they actually got 20% older than the controll group.
So while I don't think this is what they are doing, it just goes to show what apparently is possible and what kind of roads are thought about in medicine to manipulate our bodies. Who knows what on earth they good be doing.
As a free range, variable pace sport cycling is not very intuitive to assess in terms of performance levels, at least for the non-cycling followers. That's why power is handy in the first place.
But assume someone (preferably a Slovenian dude, they are awesome in endurance sports) lobbed a 1:55-1:50 marathon. The latter number is very over the top, just a mechanic extrapolation from Pog taking 3min30 from pantani during a 40min effort. Even the first one is more than a bit tongue in cheek.
Would the media or sport sciences community blink? I don't know. The shoe argument couldn't possibly cover all of that.
So I wouldn't expect much noises lamenting this tour. Viewers apparently love nuclear riding. What I personally find weird is the argument that what we are seeing is at least entertaining. How so? The outcome is pretty much known in advance. At a point some mutant just rides away.
But assume someone (preferably a Slovenian dude, they are awesome in endurance sports) lobbed a 1:55-1:50 marathon. The latter number is very over the top, just a mechanic extrapolation from Pog taking 3min30 from pantani during a 40min effort. Even the first one is more than a bit tongue in cheek.
Would the media or sport sciences community blink? I don't know. The shoe argument couldn't possibly cover all of that.
So I wouldn't expect much noises lamenting this tour. Viewers apparently love nuclear riding. What I personally find weird is the argument that what we are seeing is at least entertaining. How so? The outcome is pretty much known in advance. At a point some mutant just rides away.
My gut feeling is that a far lower percentage of the peloton is doped than 10-15 years ago...
probably partially because of the back-lash meaning more guys than before would just say no, especially if they already have contracts for multiple years and perform at an okay level.
But whatever has happened in the last ~3-4 years? I find it pretty inconceivable that a decent %, including most of the top GC guys, are pushing the limits of what is legal, and stepping over those limits.
Dumoulin, Pinot and Bardet are the same age as Landa. Their performances over the last ~5 years (pre-retirement for Dumoulin and Pinot) from what should have been their "peak" at say age ~24-27? Yeh, they either got worse or stagnated. As human physiology says they should have.
Yet Landa (their peer who at age ~24-30 was a very similar level rider overall to those 3) is now putting up numbers that would have made him DOMINANT from 2014-2020... a time when he generally was fighting for podiums.
probably partially because of the back-lash meaning more guys than before would just say no, especially if they already have contracts for multiple years and perform at an okay level.
But whatever has happened in the last ~3-4 years? I find it pretty inconceivable that a decent %, including most of the top GC guys, are pushing the limits of what is legal, and stepping over those limits.
Dumoulin, Pinot and Bardet are the same age as Landa. Their performances over the last ~5 years (pre-retirement for Dumoulin and Pinot) from what should have been their "peak" at say age ~24-27? Yeh, they either got worse or stagnated. As human physiology says they should have.
Yet Landa (their peer who at age ~24-30 was a very similar level rider overall to those 3) is now putting up numbers that would have made him DOMINANT from 2014-2020... a time when he generally was fighting for podiums.
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