State of the Peloton 2024

[zlev11]

You seem to struggle with even the most basic physics. How can a guy who soloed for almost 12 kilometres be faster than a guy who was paced by a two-time TdF winner at maximum effort until the last 5 kilometres?

+ I didn't measure the time but I think Jorgenson already had a massive lead over the 1998 peloton when Pantani attacked.

you're the person struggling with physics: they're riding on an 8% incline, the draft is minimal

Pantani NEVER did a performance as good as this

 

[Red Rick]

Actually judging by the profile of improvements - long climbs going way faster than short climbs - seems just very indicative of oxygen vector doping.

 

[Ripper]

So, no even slightly awkward questions by the Press today? I think perhaps just a request to explain the performance in general. But no actual questions about doping.

I think a lot of the reasoning why has already been explained. The only thing I would add is the incredibly deep pockets and power of certain teams make it quite cost prohibitive for journalists to go there with nothing

 

[zlev11]

So, no even slightly awkward questions by the Press today? I think perhaps just a request to explain the performance in general. But no actual questions about doping.

I think a lot of the reasoning why has already been explained. The only thing I would add is the incredibly deep pockets and power of certain teams make it quite cost prohibitive for journalists to go there with nothing

nope, instead everyone was begging Tadej to show up and ruin the Vuelta too

 

[Tim Cahill]

No awkward questions no, but there was one ex-cyclist at least taking the piss

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812751161826455723

Ok Now, it's not good to be a sprinter on the TDF. Pantani… I no longer understand anything about cycling, courage to the survivors for the next few days #delai

Nacer Bouhanni: "I find it more and more difficult to hear people on TV preaching the good word, saying what is right or wrong when they have a deceitful past. Hearing them go into ecstasies over certain things are unbearable to hear"

I don't have an subscription myself, perhaps someone can post it here as it's behind a paywall

« Je ne comprends pas comment c’est possible » : Nacer Bouhanni doute des performances sur le Tour de France

L’ancien sprinteur avoue son incompréhension devant les records de vitesse répétés chaque jour par les meilleurs dans les ascensions. Et il

www.leparisien.fr

Always rated him myself. Bruiser Bouhanni. One of the good ones, who would've thought it.

 

[houtdffan]

the top 3 climbing performances of the century occurred Sunday

Think about what happened. Remco set the 21t century climbing record and was still beat by 3 minutes

Get ready for these 3 having to slam on the brakes going UPHILL in the Alps because the motorcycles are not fast enough and keep getting in their way

 

[Ripper]

the top 3 climbing performances of the century occurred Sunday

Think about what happened. Remco set the 21t century climbing record and was still beat by 3 minutes

Get ready for these 3 having to slam on the brakes going UPHILL in the Alps because the motorcycles are not fast enough and keep getting in their way

I am pretty sure there already was braking on a couple of the uphill switchbacks on Sunday

 

[houtdffan]

I am pretty sure there already was braking on a couple of the uphill switchbacks on Sunday

I was more thinking in the form of the Peyersourde in 2007 when there was braking on the straight sections because Contador and Rassmussen literally were going up the climb faster than the motos could

 

[ppanther92]

i dont know anymore what's more incredible

- Vingegaard returning from a heavy crash putting out by far his best numbers ever like it never happened
- Pogacar going even 0.1 w/kg better than that.
- Evenepoel also casually destroying Pantani record in the background

What the ***. They are going 10%+ faster than Armstrong times. Hilarious.

The first two are on par, I would say. Vingegaard without injury would match Pogi probably. Evenepoel also obviously putting a career-best performance but still a level below cleary (yet ).

 

[ppanther92]

Of course there's the dark side of the whole situation when all of a sudden guys start getting heart attacks in their late 20's because their blood is thicker than honey. Or a kid trying to turn pro hears about it and has to go to hospital or dies due to not having the budget and controls of a big team.

I mean, the still have to adhere to the 50% limit in hematocrit but yes, I can totally see the riskiness with that stuff in the sense of "more is more" or indeed less good medical supervision.

 

[ppanther92]

This is why we can't have nice things, as soon as they relax a bit about Antidoping the same old guys from back in the day (who are now/still running teams) take it too far.
The only way this arms race ends is big police raids or if people start dropping dead because they took it too far.

Thats indeed unfortunate and actually works like this in all aspects of life. Continuous circles of destroying everything (police raids, and so on, with putting cycling on the floor again in public perception), then a period of buildup, then a few years of "blue-sky" with people overdoing it, and rinse and repeat...

 

[ppanther92]

Actually judging by the profile of improvements - long climbs going way faster than short climbs - seems just very indicative of oxygen vector doping.

True

 

[Bavarianrider]

1. 2024: 39:50 Tadej Pogacar 23.95 km/h
2. 2024: 40:58 Jonas Vingegaard 23.29 km/h
3. 2024: 42:41 Remco Evenepoel 22.35 km/h
4. 1998: 43:20 Marco Pantani 21.88 km/h
5. 2024: 43:44 Mikel Landa 21.81 km/h
6. 2007: 44:08 Alberto Contador 21.62 km/h
7. 2007: 44:08 Michael Rasmussen 21.62 km/h
8. 1998: 44:26 Jan Ullrich 21.34 km/h
9. 2024: 44:33 Joao Almeida 21.41 km/h
10. 2007: 44:45 Mauricio Soler 21.32 km/h
11. 2024: 44:46 Adam Yates 21.31 km/h
12. 2007: 44:48 Levi Leipheimer 21.29 km/h
13. 1998: 44:53 Bobby Julich 21.12 km/h
14. 1998: 44:53 Michael Boogerd 21.12 km/h
15. 1998: 44:53 Leonardo Piepoli 21.12 km/h
16. 1998: 44:53 Fernando Escartin 21.12 km/h
17. 1998: 44:53 Christophe Rinero 21.12 km/h
18. 2024: 44:58 Santiago Buitrago 21.22 km/h
19. 2024: 44:58 Carlos Rodriguez 21.22 km/h
20. 2007: 45:01 Carlos Sastre 21.19 km/h
21. 1998: 45:21 Kevin Livingston 20.90 km/h
22. 1998: 45:23 Angel Casero 20.89 km/h
23. 1998: 45:23 Laurent Jalabert 20.89 km/h
24. 1998: 45:23 Manuel Beltran 20.89 km/h
25. 2004: 45:31 Lance Armstrong 20.96 km/h
26. 2004: 45:31 Ivan Basso 20.96 km/h
27. 2015: 45:30 Alejandro Valverde 20.97 km/h
28. 2015: 45:31 Christopher Froome 20.96 km/h
29. 2015: 45:31 Nairo Quintana 20.96 km/h
30. 2015: 45:31 Thibaut Pinot 20.96 km/h
31. 2015: 45:31 Tejay Van Garderen 20.96 km/h
32. 2015: 45:31 Alberto Contador 20.96 km/h
33. 2015: 45:31 Pierre Rolland 20.96 km/h
34. 2015: 45:31 Vincenzo Nibali 20.96 km/h
35. 2015: 45:31 Geraint Thomas 20.96 km/h
36. 2024: 45:47 Felix Gall 20.84 km/h
37. 2002: 45:55 Lance Armstrong 20.78 km/h
38. 2007: 46:00 Andreas Klöden 20.74 km/h
39. 2007: 46:00 Cadel Evans 20.74 km/h
40. 1998: 46:13 Dariusz Baranowski 20.51 km/h
41. 1998: 46:13 Marcos Serrano 20.51 km/h
42. 1998: 46:13 Luc Leblanc 20.51 km/h
43. 1998: 46:18 Giuseppe Di Grande 20.48 km/h
44. 1998: 46:18 Laurent Madouas 20.48 km/h
45. 2024: 46:19 Derek Gee 20.60 km/h
46. 2024: 46:19 Giulio Ciccone 20.60 km/h
47. 2011: 46:20 Jelle Vanendert 20.59 km/h
48. 2015: 46:27 Robert Gesink 20.54 km/h
49. 2015: 46:27 Bauke Mollema 20.54 km/h
50. 2007: 46:31 Andrey Kashechkin 20.51 km/h

 

[Bavarianrider]

Cycyling`s only luck is that we don`t have Alpe d Huez this year. The general public doesn`t really react to what happens on an "unknown" climb. But if Pogacar had gone sub 35 on Alpe D Huez, which he would have done, surely the reactions would have been a lot different.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Cycyling`s only luck is that we don`t have Alpe d Huez this year. The general public doesn`t really react to what happens on an "unknown" climb. But if Pogacar had gone sub 35 on Alpe D Huez, which he would have done, surely the reactions would have been a lot different.

Alpe d'Huez and Hautacam to become no go zones?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

PdB climb is defining not only for this generation of riders but also for the whole cycling history. So far most thought our heroes are still somewhat below top-fuel dragsters of the EPO era (Pantani, Riis) but it's the opposite.

It was the mutants battle at its scariest. After a huge pull by Jorgenson Grischa must have said the password Show the world who's the strongest and Skeletor performed one of the most powerful sustained attacks ever seen. But instead of roasting his rival he set up a perfect pace for him. As a result, Teddy upped the radiation level even more and dropped his nemezis for good (imagine Grischa's face then!) producing the greatest long-climb performance in cycling history.

It was a great team time trial by our heroes (the version in which everyone has his own time), no negative split etc. But despite a perfect pacing nobody thought such a tempo can be sustained for so long! Even 20 minutes (half of PdB) of this intensity is a great performance but this was something else...

 

[Forever The Best]

Alpe d'Huez and Hautacam to become no go zones?

Meh, don't like traditional Alpe d'Huez as a stage finish much anyways. Telegraphe-Galibier-Sarenne-Alpe or Alpe-Les Deux Alpes are better anyways.

Hautacam on the other hand I like as it is well connected with Spandelles leading to a Aubisque-Spandelles-Hautacam chain (which was great in 2022)

 

[NOT_NORMAL]

Cycyling`s only luck is that we don`t have Alpe d Huez this year. The general public doesn`t really react to what happens on an "unknown" climb. But if Pogacar had gone sub 35 on Alpe D Huez, which he would have done, surely the reactions would have been a lot different.

They wouldn't have been.

They could ride up AdH on motorcycles and go sub 30 minutes, and as long as the "experts" in the media say that it's legit, most will accept that.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Alpe d'Huez and Hautacam to become no go zones?

Simply put them into one stage, cause then there will (should) be no way they have the power to break the records.

 

[Forever The Best]

Stumbled to this on the internet, some noises from a former pro in Bouhanni (although it requires subscription to read the full article, but I got the gist from the title and first paragraph despite not having subscription): https://www.leparisien.fr/sports/cy...nce-15-07-2024-DY62C5AIFREYBLRWEGA7IQB2NQ.php

 

[46&twoWheels]

1. 2024: 39:50 Tadej Pogacar 23.95 km/h
2. 2024: 40:58 Jonas Vingegaard 23.29 km/h
3. 2024: 42:41 Remco Evenepoel 22.35 km/h
4. 1998: 43:20 Marco Pantani 21.88 km/h
5. 2024: 43:44 Mikel Landa 21.81 km/h
6. 2007: 44:08 Alberto Contador 21.62 km/h
7. 2007: 44:08 Michael Rasmussen 21.62 km/h
8. 1998: 44:26 Jan Ullrich 21.34 km/h
9. 2024: 44:33 Joao Almeida 21.41 km/h
10. 2007: 44:45 Mauricio Soler 21.32 km/h
11. 2024: 44:46 Adam Yates 21.31 km/h
12. 2007: 44:48 Levi Leipheimer 21.29 km/h
13. 1998: 44:53 Bobby Julich 21.12 km/h
14. 1998: 44:53 Michael Boogerd 21.12 km/h
15. 1998: 44:53 Leonardo Piepoli 21.12 km/h
16. 1998: 44:53 Fernando Escartin 21.12 km/h
17. 1998: 44:53 Christophe Rinero 21.12 km/h
18. 2024: 44:58 Santiago Buitrago 21.22 km/h
19. 2024: 44:58 Carlos Rodriguez 21.22 km/h
20. 2007: 45:01 Carlos Sastre 21.19 km/h
21. 1998: 45:21 Kevin Livingston 20.90 km/h
22. 1998: 45:23 Angel Casero 20.89 km/h
23. 1998: 45:23 Laurent Jalabert 20.89 km/h
24. 1998: 45:23 Manuel Beltran 20.89 km/h
25. 2004: 45:31 Lance Armstrong 20.96 km/h
26. 2004: 45:31 Ivan Basso 20.96 km/h
27. 2015: 45:30 Alejandro Valverde 20.97 km/h
28. 2015: 45:31 Christopher Froome 20.96 km/h
29. 2015: 45:31 Nairo Quintana 20.96 km/h
30. 2015: 45:31 Thibaut Pinot 20.96 km/h
31. 2015: 45:31 Tejay Van Garderen 20.96 km/h
32. 2015: 45:31 Alberto Contador 20.96 km/h
33. 2015: 45:31 Pierre Rolland 20.96 km/h
34. 2015: 45:31 Vincenzo Nibali 20.96 km/h
35. 2015: 45:31 Geraint Thomas 20.96 km/h
36. 2024: 45:47 Felix Gall 20.84 km/h
37. 2002: 45:55 Lance Armstrong 20.78 km/h
38. 2007: 46:00 Andreas Klöden 20.74 km/h
39. 2007: 46:00 Cadel Evans 20.74 km/h
40. 1998: 46:13 Dariusz Baranowski 20.51 km/h
41. 1998: 46:13 Marcos Serrano 20.51 km/h
42. 1998: 46:13 Luc Leblanc 20.51 km/h
43. 1998: 46:18 Giuseppe Di Grande 20.48 km/h
44. 1998: 46:18 Laurent Madouas 20.48 km/h
45. 2024: 46:19 Derek Gee 20.60 km/h
46. 2024: 46:19 Giulio Ciccone 20.60 km/h
47. 2011: 46:20 Jelle Vanendert 20.59 km/h
48. 2015: 46:27 Robert Gesink 20.54 km/h
49. 2015: 46:27 Bauke Mollema 20.54 km/h
50. 2007: 46:31 Andrey Kashechkin 20.51 km/h

all the way down to Piti-Froome-Nibs-Geraint group of 2015 for the first human performances?? I don't want to crown Mollema tbh

 

[Penninepeddler]

Stumbled to this on the internet, some noises from a former pro in Bouhanni (although it requires subscription to read the full article, but I got the gist from the title and first paragraph despite not having subscription): https://www.leparisien.fr/sports/cy...nce-15-07-2024-DY62C5AIFREYBLRWEGA7IQB2NQ.php

One of the snippets:

"There are a lot of people who don't say anything because they have direct or indirect interests in the Tour.

And I find it more and more difficult to hear people on TV preaching the good word, saying what is right or wrong when they have been deceitful in the past. Hearing them rave about certain things is unbearable.

And when we ask them certain questions, they adopt the policy of burying their heads in the sand."

 

[Rob5091]

Teddy & Vingegaard say, nothing to see hear, or the old Sergeant Schultz excuse,
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/i-...e-question-on-carbon-monoxide-rebreather-use/

On Monday, Jonas Vingegaard confirmed carbon monoxide rebreathers use in his team in an interview with the Danish newspaper Politiken, saying, “There is nothing suspicious about it.”

Pogačar himself brushed off the question when asked if he had heard of the rebreathers and if he had used them in a post-stage press conference on stage 16.

“When I heard this, I was thinking about the car exhaust, I don’t know. I don’t know about that much, so I have no comment [behind]. I don’t know what it is. I was always thinking about what goes out from the exhaust of a car,” Pogačar told reporters, adding laconically: “Maybe I’m just uneducated.”

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Teddy & Vingegaard say, nothing to see hear, or the old Sergeant Schultz excuse,
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/i-...e-question-on-carbon-monoxide-rebreather-use/

Now that Pogačar has learned about, he will become even stronger.

 

[Rackham]

Now that Pogačar has learned about, he will become even stronger.

So next time we see a pro-cyclist sitting in his car with the engine running & a hose leading from the exhaust into the car, do we just walk on by?

Nothing to see here folks, i.e. don't call an ambulance or the fire service, it's just the TdF champ training for July.