State of the Peloton 2024

[Tim Cahill]

I think teams nowadays are way more secretive in the way that they don't want the secret to get out when a rider leaves. I doubt most of the riders, even top names, are told even half the truth about the dosages and synergies of the stuff that they are taking.

A few teams still being so far ahead of the curve makes little sense otherwise. If it was just expensive as hell Ineos wouldn't be that far behind in the arms race.

Better to break the bank to poach team doctors than riders from those teams...

Gonna be doing Fabrizio Romano style transfer announcements for physicians nobody has ever heard of soon enough, Eufemiano Fuentes out of retirement in a major coup for Movistar here we go.

It's why I think Ineos should go for Ayuso, San Milan knows where the bodies are buried.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The gap between #1 and #4 is now at 12min 57secs. After this weeks mutant championships are over, that's going to be at 18+ minutes, possibly over 20 mins.

I went through wikipedia for all tours from 1990 onwards and this actually never happened at this scale in the "modern times" or since EPO or whatever you want to call it. Biggest gap between #1 and #4 that I found was 1997 tour (#1 Ulrich, #4 Olano at 15mins55secs back).

This is what happens when three decent riders race against farmers.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Noyer going at lower VAM than PdB despite being like 45% of the after a mostly flat stage and being steeper

Well, Nils Politt paced half the climb at cyclosportif pace and Carapaz just isn‘t that good.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Noyer going at lower VAM than PdB despite being like 45% of the after a mostly flat stage and being steeper

How dare you compare a proper climb with some Basque murito PdB? Oh wait...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Biggest question for me is if teams put all their riders on the same magical sauce and let the best responder win or do they actually have their top dog alone on the superman cocktail cause whatever reasons

I guess the climbing superdoms would also be on the good stuff. Maybe if you overperform on the regular stuff/have values that indicate that you might be a great responder for the rocket fuel they'll also let you sip on the good Capri Sun...

 

[Mr. 64%]

As factual as I can be, the state of cycling in this moment:

- Rediculous perfomance level, basically having taken off since Covid. Both in terms of average speeds, peak efforts and general race intensity.
- Riders that are basically nowhere getting popped. South American conti riders that can't afford to fight the case, Portugal Twillight Zone case, WT riders that get in trouble seems to be through actual law inforcement. (Hessmann probably the odd one out, but he got a reduced ban as well)
- Public narrative about improvements in tech, nutrition and training is largely believed, if nothing else it's at least pushed by the majority of media experts.
- Least mention of suspicion in media landscape for a long, long time - even after tzar bomba performance at PdB.
- We know Ferrari spoke about almost modern levels of carb intake in 2006 from 53x12 article. So at the very least, *someone* in the sport knew even back then.
- We know the improvements in aerodynamics and bike tech has been gradual since the late 90's - not a sudden improvement that happened within the last 2-3 years.
- Several seemingly talented GC riders that are nowhere, even though they're performing at their best level at or before peak age. (Bernal, Rodriguez, Mas, Carapaz, just to give a hint of what i mean)
- No real closure to loose ends of Aderlass-case.
- No real closure to the Bahrain raids.
- UCI hires new cowboy to fight motor doping.
- Current and recently retired pros in disbelief.


...which, for me at least, leaves questions on:
- Altitude camps, and the possible masking of blood doping using altitude.
- Gene-therapy, Crispr etc.
- Fecal-doping. (i'm serious. yeah. I actually am.)
- WADA and the UCI. (as always...)
- Motors.
- WHAT THE ACTUAL !"#% is going on

 

[Krzysztof_O]

@Mr. 64% COVID accelerated human evolution.

 

[Mr. 64%]

@Mr. 64% COVID accelerated human evolution.

...like nothing we've ever seen.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

The gap between #1 and #4 is now at 12min 57secs. After this weeks mutant championships are over, that's going to be at 18+ minutes, possibly over 20 mins.

I went through wikipedia for all tours from 1990 onwards and this actually never happened at this scale in the "modern times" or since EPO or whatever you want to call it. Biggest gap between #1 and #4 that I found was 1997 tour (#1 Ulrich, #4 Olano at 15mins55secs back).

Almeida is Pog's helper. What do you expect him to do, attack his teamleader?

 

[Andon]

Almeida is Pog's helper. What do you expect him to do, attack his teamleader?

This isn't about Almeida or some other specific circumstance, it's just facts about past 35 years of cycling. You can dismiss Almeida and take the difference between #1 and #5 for all I care, point still stands. The gaps are huge between top3 and the rest. Look at something like this to see an entirely different kind of field:

2011 Tour de France - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[noob]

I think teams nowadays are way more secretive in the way that they don't want the secret to get out when a rider leaves. I doubt most of the riders, even top names, are told even half the truth about the dosages and synergies of the stuff that they are taking.

A few teams still being so far ahead of the curve makes little sense otherwise. If it was just expensive as hell Ineos wouldn't be that far behind in the arms race.

Better to break the bank to poach team doctors than riders from those teams...

This is the thought I've had and it's absolutely terrifying! I think this is right 😢 It means riders are quite easily not just doped, but duped 🤫

 

[Slavique Nuke]

This isn't about Almeida or some other specific circumstance, it's just facts about past 35 years of cycling. You can dismiss Almeida and take the difference between #1 and #5 for all I care, point still stands. The gaps are huge between top3 and the rest. Look at something like this to see an entirely different kind of field:

2011 Tour de France - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You specifically wrote about the gap between 1st and 4th place in your comment. So how the hell is this not about Almeida?

Btw, Landa is Remco's helper. So now you have to move the goalpost again and go to sixth place.

 

[noob]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E4vFIZEDYvk


I used to like them. But this tour with them chastising riders for not being good enough to challenge Pog and Jonas. It's true, but whatever things UAE Visma is on, it's not fair to mock other teams.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I mean, the still have to adhere to the 50% limit in hematocrit but yes, I can totally see the riskiness with that stuff in the sense of "more is more" or indeed less good medical supervision.

What if they’re manipulating the hemoglobin though with the carbon monoxide riding in order to increase it as well. Hemoglobin is what’s actually transports everything throughout the body. Then factor in performing at a high level while huffing on fumes, take out as much fumes during the race, and no wonder performances are getting better and better.

 

[noob]

What if they’re manipulating the hemoglobin though with the carbon monoxide riding in order to increase it as well. Hemoglobin is what’s actually transports everything throughout the body. Then factor in performing at a high level while huffing on fumes, take out as much fumes during the race, and no wonder performances are getting better and better.

I really don't want to like this post. But it seems more and more likely and combined with riders not knowing what the docs are giving them it's quite terrifying!

 

[Monoxidator]

I really don't want to like this post. But it seems more and more likely and combined with riders not knowing what the docs are giving them it's quite terrifying!

The idea of huffing on motorcycle fumes is absurd ... that's not what they're doing. They're using precisely dosed gases controlled by highly specialized equipment to progressively overload the system throughout the duration of an altitude camp. Doing this they can probably reach the mythical 60% hema levels previously only seen with massive EPO abuse.

Exhaust fumes have nothing to do with it. It's a funny visual, but it's irrelevant to what's actually happening.

And if the teams are really scummy (like a team run by Gianetti) the gases could be dosed during any sort of lactate test, vo2 test, or hemoglobin test, through the mask without the rider being aware. CO is tasteless and odorless after all.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I really don't want to like this post. But it seems more and more likely and combined with riders not knowing what the docs are giving them it's quite terrifying!

I don’t like it either but it makes sense with what we’re seeing that they don’t look like they’re breathing at all on these climbs. Their body got used to operating at a high level while breathing in whatever dose of canton monoxide, thus when it’s removed it increases their performance. Like if I were to wear weighted clothing like Goku in Dragon Ball and remove it, I’ll be faster and stronger just from having carried it around. That could also be why the Jumbo rider was taking a diuretic, instead of just removing water weight they could theoretically have had pulmonary edema and they were removing the fluid from their lungs.

 

[houtdffan]

The gap between #1 and #4 is now at 12min 57secs. After this weeks mutant championships are over, that's going to be at 18+ minutes, possibly over 20 mins.

I went through wikipedia for all tours from 1990 onwards and this actually never happened at this scale in the "modern times" or since EPO or whatever you want to call it. Biggest gap between #1 and #4 that I found was 1997 tour (#1 Ulrich, #4 Olano at 15mins55secs back).

once you get past the 3 aliens, it is really a close tour with Almieda with a 30 second lead over Landa

There is a relatively small gap between 1 and 2, a smaller but closing gap between 2 and 3, then a MASSIVE gap between 3 and 4

 

[Izzyeviel]

I never did the second part because the girl who was supposed to come after two weeks didn't come.

This carbon monoxide thing is wild.

 

[Rob5091]

So Pogi has gone from "I know nothing!" to "nothing to see here."
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/it...r-confirms-use-of-carbon-monoxide-rebreather/

and asking about @mou?! Wtf?

"I don't know who this guy is and what's his purpose. I think he just tries to be important on Twitter and forums or whatever, but I don't follow, I just heard a lot. People are asking. Maybe we will all together find out who the guy is."

Considering @mou claimed to have a source on the team, I'd think it was easy to find out if that's true or not.

 

[meat puppet]

Frontiers | A New Method to Improve Running Economy and Maximal Aerobic Power in Athletes: Endurance Training With Periodic Carbon Monoxide Inhalation

BackgroundAltitude training stimulates erythropoietin hormone (EPO) release and increases blood hemoglobin (Hb) mass, which may result in improved oxygen (O2...

www.frontiersin.org

Not a widely cited paper by any standards. A study on runners from 2019.

Fwiw seems to add to the lit claiming that the CO inhalation thing has a tangible if not necessarily very large effect on HB & vo2. Here they also document a little bit larger effect on running economy, or lower oxygen cost at submax speeds. All useful adaptations of course.

Effect sizes could well depend on exact inhalation protocol. But if I had to take a guess, the method, at least as utilised here, is not the one that takes you from 6,2 to 6,8w/kg, unless in combination with other stuff.

 

[Ripper]

So Pogi has gone from "I know nothing!" to "nothing to see here."
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/it...r-confirms-use-of-carbon-monoxide-rebreather/

and asking about @mou?! Wtf?

Considering @mou claimed to have a source on the team, I'd think it was easy to find out if that's true or not.

Lol. Oh Pog.

 

[Ripper]

Gonna be doing Fabrizio Romano style transfer announcements for physicians nobody has ever heard of soon enough, Eufemiano Fuentes out of retirement in a major coup for Movistar here we go.

It's why I think Ineos should go for Ayuso, San Milan knows where the bodies are buried.

Dude, you're famous on Twitter now!

 

[ppanther92]

On a serious side - I

The idea of huffing on motorcycle fumes is absurd ... that's not what they're doing. They're using precisely dosed gases controlled by highly specialized equipment to progressively overload the system throughout the duration of an altitude camp. Doing this they can probably reach the mythical 60% hema levels previously only seen with massive EPO abuse.

Exhaust fumes have nothing to do with it. It's a funny visual, but it's irrelevant to what's actually happening.

And if the teams are really scummy (like a team run by Gianetti) the gases could be dosed during any sort of lactate test, vo2 test, or hemoglobin test, through the mask without the rider being aware. CO is tasteless and odorless after all.

Carbon monoxide is one substance in fumes. But no one can tell me all the other stuff and even particles in your lung are for sure not performance enhancing.

Introducing the gas to riders in test environments would indeed be awful on an ethical level but also potentially keeps knowledge about practices in a narrow circle and would make riders good “liars”, since they indeed believe they are not doing that.

 

[noob]

So Pogi has gone from "I know nothing!" to "nothing to see here."
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/it...r-confirms-use-of-carbon-monoxide-rebreather/

and asking about @mou?! Wtf?

Considering @mou claimed to have a source on the team, I'd think it was easy to find out if that's true or not.

Omg 😱

Has mou been in other social media or are they talking about this forum?!