State of the Peloton 2024

[Monoxidator]

So laughable. If Niels Pollitt is the next Nathan maybe that will wake them up?

 

[Rob5091]

No awkward questions no, but there was one ex-cyclist at least taking the piss

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812751161826455723

Ok Now, it's not good to be a sprinter on the TDF. Pantani… I no longer understand anything about cycling, courage to the survivors for the next few days #delai

Nacer Bouhanni: "I find it more and more difficult to hear people on TV preaching the good word, saying what is right or wrong when they have a deceitful past. Hearing them go into ecstasies over certain things are unbearable to hear"

I don't have an subscription myself, perhaps someone can post it here as it's behind a paywall

« Je ne comprends pas comment c’est possible » : Nacer Bouhanni doute des performances sur le Tour de France

L’ancien sprinteur avoue son incompréhension devant les records de vitesse répétés chaque jour par les meilleurs dans les ascensions. Et il

www.leparisien.fr

Always rated him myself. Bruiser Bouhanni. One of the good ones, who would've thought it.

Johannessen says,"When those two guys went past, it’s like I don’t do the same sport as them" and Bouhanni says, "I no longer understand anything about cycling." This is not guys upset about losing a race, but statements of disbelief of the state of racing.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

So next time we see a pro-cyclist sitting in his car with the engine running & a hose leading from the exhaust into the car, do we just walk on by?

Nothing to see here folks, i.e. don't call an ambulance or the fire service, it's just the TdF champ training for July.

You make it sound like you've already experienced that in the past.

Riders have been accused of switching bikes in order to get one with a motor ahead of a climb or sprint finish, but perhaps it was actually just an opportunity for them to get fresh fumes from the team car.

 

[Red Rick]

You make it sound like you've already experienced that in the past.

Riders have been accused of switching bikes in order to get one with a motor ahead of a climb or sprint finish, but perhaps it was actually just an opportunity for them to get fresh fumes from the team car.

Pogacar is always snorting motor exhaust for the double whammy of drafting and carbon monoxide.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Pogacar is always snorting motor exhaust for the double whammy of drafting and carbon monoxide.

Could be, but he would have to actually breathe to do that. I also doubt he was snorting stuff from Vingegaard's ass for 5 km on Plateau de Beille, but who really knows how anything works these days?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

So next time we see a pro-cyclist sitting in his car with the engine running & a hose leading from the exhaust into the car, do we just walk on by?

Nothing to see here folks, i.e. don't call an ambulance or the fire service, it's just the TdF champ training for July.

Yeah, the last five times this exact thing happened to me, I called an ambulance, but now I‘m not so sure anymore.

 

[Rackham]

You make it sound like you've already experienced that in the past.

Riders have been accused of switching bikes in order to get one with a motor ahead of a climb or sprint finish, but perhaps it was actually just an opportunity for them to get fresh fumes from the team car.

No, although I haven't checked the car park on Mount Teide so I wouldn't know how common it really is.

 

[Ripper]

Teddy & Vingegaard say, nothing to see hear, or the old Sergeant Schultz excuse,
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/i-...e-question-on-carbon-monoxide-rebreather-use/

Pogo's response seems more than a little bit disingenuous given the team uses the device

 

[E_F_]

Pogo's response seems more than a little bit disingenuous given the team uses the device

The guy who said there couldn't possibly be motor-doping because we can see how big e-bikes are, yet later in the same interview commented on how the rumours about it has gone away..?

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Pogo's response seems more than a little bit disingenuous given the team uses the device

Yes, I'm not surprised the team clarified things soon afterwards, it's not a great look having a team leader stating he's "uneducated" on what's going into his body and the story had been doing the rounds for days, the question was always going to come up - either they didn't do their job in terms of prepping Pogi or they decided on the wrong response. In terms of communication the team would surely have been better off doing what Visma did and just being open about it from the first questions.

Leaders scrutinised as carbon monoxide tests unsettle Tour de France

Teams of Tadej Pogacar and Jonas Vingegaard use ‘rebreathing’ technique to measure effects of altitude training but Dane says there is ‘nothing suspicious’ about it

www.thetimes.com

After being asked a gentle first question at his daily post-race press conference, Pogacar faced a more difficult query. “Tadej, yesterday Jonas [Vingegaard] was asked about the carbon monoxide rebreathing technique, are you familiar with this? Have you ever used it?”

“I heard this, I was thinking about car exhausts, I don’t know. I don’t know much about it. I have no comment on it. I don’t know what it is. I was always thinking it is what goes out of the exhaust of the car. Maybe I am just uneducated.”

Perhaps. Soon after, Pogacar’s UAE team, responding to a question from The Times, said the team does in fact use carbon monoxide rebreathing to measure haemoglobin mass and that this technique has been used in altitude training and research for more than 20 years. “It is a well established, safe, professional method that is backed by a very large amount of research,” the team said in a statement. “It is used widely by athletes, climbers and other persons who are exposed to altitude for professional sports or other physical activities.”

The team pointed out the carbon monoxide test is the only means of accurately measuring haemoglobin mass and this allows the team to assess how their athletes are responding to altitude training. The test is carried out by Dr Irina Zelenkova from the University of Zaragoza, an expert in this field. According to the team, the test is done on every rider at the beginning and end of each block of altitude training.

Using carbon monoxide to measure haemoglobin mass is not banned and is not considered doping. However, it is a poisonous gas and using it, even under the strictest medical control, on healthy young athletes is going to be considered controversial by some. The issue has arisen following the publication of an investigation into the use of carbon monoxide rebreathing and the potential abuse of carbon monoxide exhalation by a US-based cycling website Escape Collective.

According to the Escape piece, UAE Team Emirates, Visma-Lease a Bike and Israel-Premier Tech all do carbon monoxide rebreathing tests to measure haemoglobin. Other teams don’t. “It’s not something we have ever done or would do,” Jonathan Vaughters, chief executive of the EF Education First-Easy Post team, said. “I don’t see how knowing haemoglobin mass is going to be that valuable.”

The danger is that if the Detalo Blood Volume Analyser or any similar device falls into the hands of the unscrupulous, it could be used for carbon monoxide inhalation, leading to hypoxia and the body’s natural response to this would be to create more red cells. “There is no hard evidence that WorldTeams are using CO inhalation for performance enhancement,” Ronan McLaughlin wrote in his piece for Escape Collective. “But their exploration of the technique alone makes it more likely that someone else will cross that line, and both scientists and team officials Escape spoke with voiced concern about the potential for abuse.

 

[NFTtiddies]

Riders: "We're on drugs"
Fans: "Noo, you can't be on drugs, think of all the advances in nutrition and training and in bike tech!!!"

 

[Slavique Nuke]

All the nonsense about carbon monoxide rebreathers has been picked up by that clickbait website. It does not seem to be anything new. There were already articles in the Danish media early last year about Vingegaard working with the co-founder of Detalo and they were in an altitude training camp together - https://www.seoghoer.dk/sport/forsk...ards-krop-ved-endnu-ikke-om-det-har-en-effekt

And Detalo website lists the Norwegian Olympic Committee with whom they work. So I guess the device has been used in many sports for a long time.

 

[perico]

how do you explain how much faster they were than 2007 then? Contador and Rasmussen are two of the best climbers of their generation and we know for a fact those riders were blood doping, with no biopassport limitations.

Contador and Rasmussen WERE the 2 best of their generation.

Did you watch the actual race when it happened? They were stop/start accelerations all the way up the mountain. Alberto would attack, Rasmussen would pull him back in. They would basically stop, and do it all over again.

 

[Ripper]

I love it.

The times are way faster. Counter arguments about technology increasing speeds, making drafting more of an effect, compounding the whole thing. There is logic in this and it does make a difference, although how much is debatable.

Then we have riders saying they are doing their best numbers ever and suggesting that the estimates of W/Kg are pretty accurate. Oh, but the nutrition and modern training techniques! Again, there is logic in these arguments, although again the degree of impact is debatable

Where there is smoke there is fire folks. It is the accumulation of all these things that makes for more than just a little suspicious goings on.

And the ridiculous accelerations when already going hard is just amusement park territory.

For a fun experiment, which just gets more entertaining the higher up the hierarchy you go, apply 7 w/kg to your own body weight and think about how long you could hold that level of power for. 😆😆😆 (and yes, obviously being a professional at athlete puts you far far above the normal person's capacities)

 

[zlev11]

Contador and Rasmussen WERE the 2 best of their generation.

Did you watch the actual race when it happened? They were stop/start accelerations all the way up the mountain. Alberto would attack, Rasmussen would pull him back in. They would basically stop, and do it all over again.

yes i've watched that stage plenty of times, it's one of my favorite stages to watch. it's not as start/stop as you remember it. rabobank and popovych kept doing tempo on the front once it regrouped, then the last 5k are basically flat out.

 

[Andon]

The gap between #1 and #4 is now at 12min 57secs. After this weeks mutant championships are over, that's going to be at 18+ minutes, possibly over 20 mins.

I went through wikipedia for all tours from 1990 onwards and this actually never happened at this scale in the "modern times" or since EPO or whatever you want to call it. Biggest gap between #1 and #4 that I found was 1997 tour (#1 Ulrich, #4 Olano at 15mins55secs back).

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think teams nowadays are way more secretive in the way that they don't want the secret to get out when a rider leaves. I doubt most of the riders, even top names, are told even half the truth about the dosages and synergies of the stuff that they are taking.

A few teams still being so far ahead of the curve makes little sense otherwise. If it was just expensive as hell Ineos wouldn't be that far behind in the arms race.

Better to break the bank to poach team doctors than riders from those teams...

 

[Tim Cahill]

I think teams nowadays are way more secretive in the way that they don't want the secret to get out when a rider leaves. I doubt most of the riders, even top names, are told even half the truth about the dosages and synergies of the stuff that they are taking.

A few teams still being so far ahead of the curve makes little sense otherwise. If it was just expensive as hell Ineos wouldn't be that far behind in the arms race.

Better to break the bank to poach team doctors than riders from those teams...

Gonna be doing Fabrizio Romano style transfer announcements for physicians nobody has ever heard of soon enough, Eufemiano Fuentes out of retirement in a major coup for Movistar here we go.

It's why I think Ineos should go for Ayuso, San Milan knows where the bodies are buried.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The gap between #1 and #4 is now at 12min 57secs. After this weeks mutant championships are over, that's going to be at 18+ minutes, possibly over 20 mins.

I went through wikipedia for all tours from 1990 onwards and this actually never happened at this scale in the "modern times" or since EPO or whatever you want to call it. Biggest gap between #1 and #4 that I found was 1997 tour (#1 Ulrich, #4 Olano at 15mins55secs back).

This is what happens when three decent riders race against farmers.

 

[Red Rick]

I think teams nowadays are way more secretive in the way that they don't want the secret to get out when a rider leaves. I doubt most of the riders, even top names, are told even half the truth about the dosages and synergies of the stuff that they are taking.

A few teams still being so far ahead of the curve makes little sense otherwise. If it was just expensive as hell Ineos wouldn't be that far behind in the arms race.

Better to break the bank to poach team doctors than riders from those teams...

Biggest question for me is if teams put all their riders on the same magical sauce and let the best responder win or do they actually have their top dog alone on the superman cocktail cause whatever reasons

 

[Red Rick]

Noyer going at lower VAM than PdB despite being like 45% of the after a mostly flat stage and being steeper

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Noyer going at lower VAM than PdB despite being like 45% of the after a mostly flat stage and being steeper

Well, Nils Politt paced half the climb at cyclosportif pace and Carapaz just isn‘t that good.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Noyer going at lower VAM than PdB despite being like 45% of the after a mostly flat stage and being steeper

How dare you compare a proper climb with some Basque murito PdB? Oh wait...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Biggest question for me is if teams put all their riders on the same magical sauce and let the best responder win or do they actually have their top dog alone on the superman cocktail cause whatever reasons

I guess the climbing superdoms would also be on the good stuff. Maybe if you overperform on the regular stuff/have values that indicate that you might be a great responder for the rocket fuel they'll also let you sip on the good Capri Sun...

 

[Mr. 64%]

As factual as I can be, the state of cycling in this moment:

- Rediculous perfomance level, basically having taken off since Covid. Both in terms of average speeds, peak efforts and general race intensity.
- Riders that are basically nowhere getting popped. South American conti riders that can't afford to fight the case, Portugal Twillight Zone case, WT riders that get in trouble seems to be through actual law inforcement. (Hessmann probably the odd one out, but he got a reduced ban as well)
- Public narrative about improvements in tech, nutrition and training is largely believed, if nothing else it's at least pushed by the majority of media experts.
- Least mention of suspicion in media landscape for a long, long time - even after tzar bomba performance at PdB.
- We know Ferrari spoke about almost modern levels of carb intake in 2006 from 53x12 article. So at the very least, *someone* in the sport knew even back then.
- We know the improvements in aerodynamics and bike tech has been gradual since the late 90's - not a sudden improvement that happened within the last 2-3 years.
- Several seemingly talented GC riders that are nowhere, even though they're performing at their best level at or before peak age. (Bernal, Rodriguez, Mas, Carapaz, just to give a hint of what i mean)
- No real closure to loose ends of Aderlass-case.
- No real closure to the Bahrain raids.
- UCI hires new cowboy to fight motor doping.
- Current and recently retired pros in disbelief.


...which, for me at least, leaves questions on:
- Altitude camps, and the possible masking of blood doping using altitude.
- Gene-therapy, Crispr etc.
- Fecal-doping. (i'm serious. yeah. I actually am.)
- WADA and the UCI. (as always...)
- Motors.
- WHAT THE ACTUAL !"#% is going on