State of the Peloton 2025

[Cookster15]

Is there a test for this? if not you are relying on intelligence and it will need to be damn good intelligence.

I think the effects of inhalation of CO would show up in the markers tracked by the biological passport. Ultimately, whatever drug or method is used, it can't provide a performance benefit if it doesn't boost the volume of oxygen delivered into the bloodstream for use by the muscles.

 

[E_F_]

I think the effects of inhalation of CO would show up in the markers tracked by the biological passport. Ultimately, whatever drug or method is used, it can't provide a performance benefit if it doesn't boost the volume of oxygen delivered into the bloodstream for use by the muscles.

Now they just need to (find a way to) start using the biological passport.

 

[Cookster15]

Now they just need to (find a way to) start using the biological passport.

This has been discussed ad nauseam in The Clinic over the years but as I see it the BP is too slow and the level of proof set too high to satisfy lawyers. Some cases took years eg . Cobo. Even looking at the list of riders caught, it isn't long considering what we know must be going on.

Everything mentioned in this ten year old article would apply to CO use.

CIRC uncovers serious weaknesses in UCI anti-doping strategy | Cyclingnews.com

Riders now able to cheat and stay below the Biological Passport radar

www.cyclingnews.com

The BP would be perfect if they could analyse rider blood and announce a positive within say 48 hours. But my point is CO abuse should be detectable in the markers used by the BP similarly to EPO or transfusions. I do think the BP very briefly slowed the peloton when it was originally introduced around 2008. But cycling is like Formula One, the doctors quickly work out how to get around it eg EPO microdosing and soon speeds are higher than ever before. The lessons learned in circumventing the BP since it was introduced would also apply to CO.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Eusebio Unzue appears to have had one of those 'Road to Damascus' moments over the winter. Their best riders Enrico, Pelayo Sánchez and of course young Hessmann haven't even started their season yet!

 

[Rob5091]

Seems like 120g carbs/hour is just the starting point ...former Ineos Grenadiers nutritionist Aitor Viribay Morales speaks -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...hydrate-revolution-could-reshape-pro-cycling/

“120g is a new reference for fueling, but the exact number is far above that,” Viribay told Velo. “There is still the potential to exploit more from nutrition, but it all depends on individual capacities to absorb, transport, and oxidize carbohydrates. “We pushed higher quantities in the time that I was at Ineos,” he continued. “We’ve got some cases where we have been up to 200 grams for certain hours of racing. We’ve averaged up to 160, 170 grams per hour for more than four hours.”

“Performance in world-class cycling is a matter of energy. That’s where watts come from. So energy is becoming a problem,” Viribay said. “If you are not fueling above 100, 120, you simply don’t have enough energy to be competitive right now.”

One thing I wondered about was the long term effects of this -

Studies have suggested hyper-carb strategies can bring metabolic side-effects that flatline performance. In the longer-term, health of the microbiome can take a hit, too.

 

[Rob5091]

So even with 160g carbs per hour, Ineos could n't win big races and Pidcock along with others flew the coop.
This article from October laid out the basics for the pro guys now -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...ydrate-revolution-is-speeding-up-pro-cycling/
It seems the most important thing is being able to tolerate so many carbs per hour (without getting the "Tom Dumoulins" or G.I. distress as it's known)

“The ability to tolerate carbs is becoming one of the biggest factors in winning or losing,” Soudal Quick-Step-turned Astana-Qazaqstan trainer Vasilis Anastopoulos said.

 

[smaryka]

Seems like 120g carbs/hour is just the starting point ...former Ineos Grenadiers nutritionist Aitor Viribay Morales speaks -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...hydrate-revolution-could-reshape-pro-cycling/


One thing I wondered about was the long term effects of this -

Wegovy/Ozempic/etc. will solve that? Not banned yet either.

 

[Rob5091]

Wegovy/Ozempic/etc. will solve that? Not banned yet either.

I was wondering about the long term efects of stuffing 120g of carbs per hour into the body. I suppose no one knows yet for sure.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So even with 160g carbs per hour, Ineos could n't win big races and Pidcock along with others flew the coop.
This article from October laid out the basics for the pro guys now -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...ydrate-revolution-is-speeding-up-pro-cycling/
It seems the most important thing is being able to tolerate so many carbs per hour (without getting the "Tom Dumoulins" or G.I. distress as it's known)

There are (as far as I know) no studies that show that the effective absorbtion rates of carbs go much above the 90 g/h, even if your body can handle it, the percentage of the effective absorbtion rate drops.
Plus such an absurd amount of carb intake will also lower your fat oxidation efficiency, meaning that you actually burn more carbs in zone 2/at lower intensities.

If there is more than smoke and mirrors to the carb stuffing it has to be combined with the use of coumpounds that allow for much higher effective absorption rates. Also, the higher the intensity is, the less high stress you can actually put on your digestive system (that's why one eats when he arrives at the top of a pass before the final climb, so that the body has the downhill and flat afterwards where you cardiovascular system is not already working hard and needing lots of blood as a time window to degest the food.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I was wondering about the long term efects of stuffing 120g of carbs per hour into the body. I suppose no one knows yet for sure.

Diabetes?

 

[zlev11]

Bernal and Gaudu finally got on the good ***? should be a fun year

 

[Red Rick]

Diabetes?

Only if you did 120 g/h of carbs while on the couch instead of doing 300 W on the bike

 

[Coffeeplanter]

Can we talk about the (relatively) massive decline of the huffers and puffers of the car exhaust? UAE has been rather disappointing thus far (Narvaez notwithstanding, who is new and thus never part of the carbon monoxide programme), while Israel haven't had one result worthy of noting.

Visma t.b.d., but Blobloblo just lost an uphill race to Damien Howson.

 

[zlev11]

it's too early to tell, anyone with any real ambitions wont be on super form yet. UAE still were the strongest team in Valencia, they just have riders with no race craft.

 

[MyFTP5.9w/kg]

Can we talk about the (relatively) massive decline of the huffers and puffers of the car exhaust? UAE has been rather disappointing thus far (Narvaez notwithstanding, who is new and thus never part of the carbon monoxide programme), while Israel haven't had one result worthy of noting.

Visma t.b.d., but Blobloblo just lost an uphill race to Damien Howson.

The UAE has the most wins, top 3 finishes and top 10 finishes this year.

 

[Coffeeplanter]

The UAE has the most wins, top 3 finishes and top 10 finishes this year.

relatively
adverb

1. in relation, comparison, or proportion to something else.
   "they were very poor, but, relatively speaking, they had been lucky"
   • regarded in comparison with something else rather than absolutely; quite.
     "the site was cheap and relatively clean"

 

[MyFTP5.9w/kg]

relatively
adverb

1. in relation, comparison, or proportion to something else.
   "they were very poor, but, relatively speaking, they had been lucky"
   • regarded in comparison with something else rather than absolutely; quite.
     "the site was cheap and relatively clean"

Compared to what? They have as many wins as they did this time last year. The young guys have been very strong in Spain and the new signing, Narvaez, in Australia. I'm sure they'll finish February with more wins this year than last.

 

[Rob5091]

One study with a modest 60g carbs per hour - one interesting point
https://www.endureiq.com/blog/carbo...te-durability-learnings-from-our-recent-paper

In our study, our carbohydrate ingestion regimen was sufficient to offset the declining blood glucose concentrations seen in the water-only trial, and to maintain blood glucose concentrations throughout exercise.

Of course it helps to have the best microchondria -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ngegaard-have-the-best-developed-mitochondria

"Here [Spain] I get closer to the aerobic threshold. It is claimed that this is a more efficient training. If you ride close to that zone more often, it stimulates the production of mitochondria," he explains. Hence, he believes that his changes throughout the winter may lead to a boost for the upcoming year, "And the riders who win the most races nowadays, such as Pogacar and Vingegaard, have the best developed mitochondria.

and Campenaerts explains post Covid speeds -
https://www.precisionhydration.com/...-constant-for-pro-cyclist-victor-campenaerts/

The impact was magnified because the long lay-off gave riders time to prepare rather than jump from race to race in a draining schedule. “Never was the pace of the peloton so high than after the pandemic,” he continues. “It was very noticeable. Let’s say, position 100 in a stage in a grand tour is 20 watts higher since Covid, which is significant.”

 

[Unchained]

relatively
adverb

1. in relation, comparison, or proportion to something else.
   "they were very poor, but, relatively speaking, they had been lucky"
   • regarded in comparison with something else rather than absolutely; quite.
     "the site was cheap and relatively clean"

Relative to other professional bike racing teams UAE are superior..

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[Coffeeplanter]

Compared to what? They have as many wins as they did this time last year. The young guys have been very strong in Spain and the new signing, Narvaez, in Australia. I'm sure they'll finish February with more wins this year than last.

Narvaez notwithstanding, who is new and thus never part of the carbon monoxide programme

 

[Tim Cahill]

You really have to look at more than the results I think, the best physiological efforts I've seen so far this season, having watched every race have come from Romo, Buitrago, Pidcock and Gaudu.

Morgado and Christen look good, they will be happy with them, Narvaez on par with this time last season but also decent, was handed TDU on platter by Plapp and played it better this time around, hard to guage a proper comparison as he was also not UAE last season.

Valencia was a problem though, the TTT they had a squad that theoretically, given their rider and equipment advantage over the other GC lineups should've been far ahead of what they did, not necessarily beating Trek but at least putting reasonable time into RB, Ineos and Jayco. Mcnulty and Sivakov looked out of sorts on the hills, the former was stepping off riders with ease last year, both trained seriously for the race but when they tried to attack a lot of riders who shouldn't really be there had no problem following. Almeida was good despite positional issues but the climbing level of the team as a whole looked second best to Bahrain, Movistar and even Ineos.

Not only that but they've had a tough time in the desert, Vine looks like a good Conti-level rider, Majka nowhere, their best rider in Alula 18th against the likes of Terengganu, JCL UKYO and some Norweigan leadout guys, that was Bjerg who I hadn't even realised was racing, Pericas 46th who they were actually riding for. Yates also lost a step it seems, in February there should only be two riders in the world dropping him on climbs. Muscat Classic excellent parcours for him and I can't remember him even attacking, put on the rack by Gaudu yesterday and it could've been more, Damien Howson the silver fox not far behind.

It's early days but there's not much to do in February other than overanalyse races, perhaps they are just easing themselves in, but the signs of decline are there. I also think some of the other teams are catching on, Bahrain, Movistar and Tudor(!) are kinda flying, the level of Ineos riders is high too they just ain't winning sh*t.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Think we will get more of an idea of where everyone is once the Visma riders descend from their training camps in Spain this weekend

I have seen most of them are at Teide, but a few of the classics riders are training at Mallorca right now, and will go to Teide between opening weekend and E3 harlebeke.

 

[Froome]

Think we will get more of an idea of where everyone is once the Visma riders descend from their training camps in Spain this weekend

I have seen most of them are at Teide, but a few of the classics riders are training at Mallorca right now, and will go to Teide between opening weekend and E3 harlebeke.

The 90s of indurain will look even more clean.

Jorgenson will fly this year.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-tIeHP7TpOo&pp=ygUGRGUgbGll

Most riders don't do this for the public perception downside, super ,over the top silly to think that all riders, all teams are not taking full advantage of training techniques, devices, available pharma and nutrition, supplements that are available. Do they make videos of them using? No..some young guys like Arnaud do..and why? Because he knows everyone is participating in similar practices and see public exposure as harmless. You will not find a UAE video or press release about their internal practices. There are multiple videos and discussions with riders, team management that show in decent detail of them doing lactate testing.. Basic script is rider does big effort, has a stopping point, team personnel stick them, get a sample and see what blood looks like. And in long sleeves nobody can tell if riders are using wearables, yes you can see riders w heart rate monitor straps, a wrist worn devices like Apple watch, but are elite riders using wearable glucose monitors in training? You bet they are ..as teams are pushing for @120-140 grams of carbs per hour, they are monitoring inputs and blood sugar,
to say that Narvaez somehow it part of something separate doesn't have any basis in available data..all teams are doing similar things..
And Visma and Jonas coming out against carbon rebreathing is likely because the Visma version was difficult, unsuccessful.

 

[Rob5091]

Even as we speak, teams of lawyers are busy finding every contamination excuse possible -
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...means-nobody-loses-but-try-telling-halep-that

From 2027, more flexibility will be shown to those who fall foul of contamination in doping cases.

Panels will be allowed to issue bans of 0-24 months, offering the likelihood that those who can prove their doping sample was the result of a contamination will receive shorter bans.