Steffen Kjaergaard - the naive and innocent Norwegian? ;)

[Sigmund]

As innderstand his confession he says he realized he could not cut it as a pro, but instead of retiring and going back to amateur riding in Norway he decided to try dope.

 

[meandmygitane]

This question was not for me, but of course there are many ex-dopers from Norway and also some really big names. I will not name anyone, but the -94 Olympics is particularly interesting.

Here is an interesting new development:
Ole Kristian Silseth tried doping (amphetamines):
Translated Dagbladet article

I wonder who the "well-known swedish cyclist" is...
Looking at who rode Postgirot 1984 (the race before the doping incident): did Silseth really ride for the Bianchi team (he is double-entried in the Norwegian team)?

 

[Dead leaves]

And the article was relating to Grete Waitz, who trusted armstrong, but died last year from cancer, probably still believing in cancer jesus.

So what makes you trust Waitz?

 

[ToreBear]

So what makes you trust Waitz?

If she doped? I have no idea if she doped. She competed before EPO, so I doubt she used that.

 

[bastigon]

Here is an interesting new development:
Ole Kristian Silseth tried doping (amphetamines):
Translated Dagbladet article

I wonder who the "well-known swedish cyclist" is...
Looking at who rode Postgirot 1984 (the race before the doping incident): did Silseth really ride for the Bianchi team (he is double-entried in the Norwegian team)?

The implicated swede distributing amphetamines at Postgirot is Tommy Prim, second at Giro 83,84 and also with wins in Tirreno-A and tour of romandy. He denies the allegations. "I can die with a clean conscience"

Swedish:
http://www.expressen.se/sport/prim-anklagas-for-att-ha-delat-ut-amfetamin/

Also noted.. Glenn Magnusson, head of swedish national team, sais he never saw doping in his year at USP. But he was never meant to go to the tour.

 

[workingclasshero]

Also noted.. Glenn Magnusson, head of swedish national team, sais he never saw doping in his year at USP. But he was never meant to go to the tour.

we covered magnusson on a different thread, he claimed lance had passed 1000 tests so it's fair to say he is not to be listened to

 

[Velo1ticker]

Hey, can you tell me where the facts are to check? I don't know. Also, it would be helpful if you named names.

List of dope cases.
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_over_dopingsaker

Note the track and field strongmen dopers being caught. Biggest concern: Who gave Erik Tysse CERA?

Resently they've caught two Germans comming to live and train in Norway. Do germans think as you that Norway has a relaxed attitude towards doping?

 

[meandmygitane]

[...]
Resently they've caught two Germans comming to live and train in Norway. Do germans think as you that Norway has a relaxed attitude towards doping?

What does this even mean? Who? Caught for what? How? When?

 

[Velo1ticker]

What does this even mean? Who? Caught for what? How? When?

- Nina Gässler in june 2012 (after the race Farrisrunden) for hormonlevels - blamed foodsuplement Cape Epic.
- Claudia Pechstein, (sorry- not resent) feb 2009 at Hamar-Hemoglobin (16,5 mg/dl) and retikulozytverdier (3,5 % 1,1% above).

and did Stephan Plätzer supply CERA to Erik Tysse?

 

[Bavarianrider]

He claims to have been very naive, and to never heard of or seen doping during his years at USP 2000-2003.

Reminds me of the norwegian cross country skiers of the 90es

 

[Armchaircyclist]

It would be very interesting to get the opinion of two Norwegian team-mates of mine from the ADR days: Torjus Larssen, and Bo-Andre Namvedt. Both excellent amateur riders, both solid professionals but left the sport disillusioned... I wonder if they have anything to do with the sport these days?

As far as Kim Anderson is concerned... bad reputation.

---------------------------
Bo-Andre Namtvedt talks to local newspaper today. Here are some of the main points translated:

- Thinks it is to easy to brand Kjærgaard as a cheat. Says that coincidences and the people around you might decide if you will dope or not. Says that it would be hard to say no to the best team in the world, even if going there means doping.
- Claims to have been offered EPO but not taken it. The way I read the article he both had moral obligations, but more importantly, he was scared by the dangerousness of this dope, he experience the death of belgian Patrice Bar closely, and was scared off by that.
- Says he was lucky to get into the sport before EPO-use became routine, like it was when Kjærgaard did.

Torjus Larsen says he was offered doping by soigneurs, and claims that the obvious presence of doping in the field was a significant reason for retiring from cycling. He says that he recognizes Kjærgaards claim that you were either doping or you were out of the game.

Another bergener Stian Remme also talks, says he got a doping shock when he came to belgian amateur team Deschacht-Granville. He says many of his teammates were more interested in getting the right doctor than the right training. Teammates had one bag of sportclothes, and one bag full of medical supplies. He could not tell what was doping and what was legal, as vitamin-shots were also popular and legal at the time. He claims to never have doped.

Forgot to mention one important part:
BOA says: After 94 whole teams started doping. The first team I noticed doing this was Gewiss-Ballan with Bjarne Riis. They were on the front all day, and then at the end 3 of their guys broke away. You can see it on the results from Fleche-Wallone from that year. He says this was demoralising, and he knew he could never get up to that level.

He also says it is really dangerous to say that the new generations are clean, and that it is so much better now. He says he would like to throw out all sports directors that have had positive riders as a start.

In the end he thinks Lance was clean in the worlds in Oslo, where Lance had said to him "we can beat these guys clean" oh well...

 

[torkil]

List of dope cases.
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_over_dopingsaker

Note the track and field strongmen dopers being caught. Biggest concern: Who gave Erik Tysse CERA?

Resently they've caught two Germans comming to live and train in Norway. Do germans think as you that Norway has a relaxed attitude towards doping?

Norwegian cyclists affiliated with doping so far:
- Steffen Kjærgaard (duh)
- Svein Gaute Hølestøl http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/10/24/...ffen_kjergaard/svein_gaute_holestol/24018233/ (knew Kjærgaard was cheating without saying anything, was offered EPO himself)
- Ole Kristian Silseth http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/10/23/sport/sykkel/doping/ole_kristian_silseth/24010101/ (admitted taking amphetamine(?) once)
- Jostein Willmann http://www.vg.no/sport/artikkel.php?artid=10041070 (took a pill once)
-Dag Erik Pedersen http://www.vg.no/sport/artikkel.php?artid=10041070 (tested positive for efedrin and was banned for a month, says he had a cold and got a prescription that was cleared by the race administration beforehand)
-Knud Knudsen http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/10/24/sport/sykkel/sykling/knut_knudsen/24018136/ (took a pill once)

So that's six out of at most twenty professional norwegian cyclists the last thirty years. And others seem suspicious as well. Im not convinced the norwegian anti-doping work have worked that well.

Note that I am holding the norwegian athletes to the same standards as us norwegians are holding the spanish etc. This means that if you have cheated or lied once then you are tainted. I honestly think this is the best approach right now in a sport filled with omerta, including the norwegian cycling federation.

 

[Velo1ticker]

He claims to have been very naive, and to never heard of or seen doping during his years at USP 2000-2003.

Reminds me of the norwegian cross country skiers of the 90es

Except no norwegian xc skiier have been caught. You may be reminded about Finland, Austria, Russia or Italy.

Isn't more like T-mobil?

 

[torkil]

---------------------------
Bo-Andre Namtvedt talks to local newspaper today. Here are some of the main points translated:

- Thinks it is to easy to brand Kjærgaard as a cheat. Says that coincidences and the people around you might decide if you will dope or not. Says that it would be hard to say no to the best team in the world, even if going there means doping.
- Claims to have been offered EPO but not taken it. The way I read the article he both had moral obligations, but more importantly, he was scared by the dangerousness of this dope, he experience the death of belgian Patrice Bar closely, and was scared off by that.
- Says he was lucky to get into the sport before EPO-use became routine, like it was when Kjærgaard did.

Torjus Larsen says he was offered doping by soigneurs, and claims that the obvious presence of doping in the field was a significant reason for retiring from cycling. He says that he recognizes Kjærgaards claim that you were either doping or you were out of the game.

Another bergener Stian Remme also talks, says he got a doping shock when he came to belgian amateur team Deschacht-Granville. He says many of his teammates were more interested in getting the right doctor than the right training. Teammates had one bag of sportclothes, and one bag full of medical supplies. He could not tell what was doping and what was legal, as vitamin-shots were also popular and legal at the time. He claims to never have doped.

Forgot to mention one important part:
BOA says: After 94 whole teams started doping. The first team I noticed doing this was Gewiss-Ballan with Bjarne Riis. They were on the front all day, and then at the end 3 of their guys broke away. You can see it on the results from Fleche-Wallone from that year. He says this was demoralising, and he knew he could never get up to that level.

He also says it is really dangerous to say that the new generations are clean, and that it is so much better now. He says he would like to throw out all sports directors that have had positive riders as a start.

In the end he thinks Lance was clean in the worlds in Oslo, where Lance had said to him "we can beat these guys clean" oh well...

The big question Im left with is why nobody said anything about this back then? (Or was this underreported?)

 

[Fidolix]

There have been no Norwegian skaters, skiers and long distance skiers from the top level who have ever been caught doping.

We don't believe our cyclists are the best in the world, we hope they are all clean, and we know there is doping in Norway since people get caught. However athletes on the priorized list are rearly caught doping.

Hence one might assume that there is little doping in Norway.


Never heard him defending armstrong. And the bracelet destruction could have been for dramatic effect. He is a journalist, and they love drama. And the article was relating to Grete Waitz, who trusted armstrong, but died last year from cancer, probably still believing in cancer jesus.

yes its exactly what I say, none have never been caught...and that is the point, and actually a scary thought.
I hope you not that naive to think that Norwegians athletes are less doped than the rest, especially thinking how dominant the long distance skiers have been through the years in what I would describe as the second hardest endurance sport there is.

My comment about the LS bracelet was why buying it in the first place...
I can only speak for my self, but there have never been any doubt in my mind that LA always were doped. There are far better ways of supporting cancer if that was his attention.

Regarding your cyclists, I remember in 2010 after Thor won his tour stage, 2 journalists seriously on national TV, was debating however if Thor now could win the tour... cycling journalists that is. I think that is not having a realistic view of the sport or the rider.

But lets not get to much off topic, if its doping in the sport of skiing we discuss, we better take it to a proper thread.

 

[workingclasshero]

what I would describe as the second hardest endurance sport there is.

2nd to what?

Running is easily the toughest sport possible, the physical pain knows no limits and mentally it is such a challenge it makes cycling a little game children play.

 

[esafosfina]

The big question Im left with is why nobody said anything about this back then? (Or was this underreported?)

I can't speak for Bo-Andre and Torjus, and Norwegian media outlets but professional cycling in the UK did suffer from a lack of press in those days... under-reporting is a likely reason. I do remember making comment to journalists about the doping 'sub-culture' at the time and to be frank not a great deal was made of it!

 

[stainlessguy1]

It´s absolutely no surprise.
Norwegians believe all their athletes especially the cyclists are the best in the world, they are all clean and doping is none existing in Norway.

Unbelievable thinking how many skaters, skiers and long distance skiers who have been caught for doping. But I guess it´s just the Norwegian mentality.

Ya Bingo . All you have to do is change the sports and listen to the national heros of years gone by , of how acceptable it was to lose the classic 50km to a non norge .
That will never happen again . More about national pride than trying to rule the world via the Lance style . but non the same , no one country is immune to doping .
Just change the sport and read the infractions then follow the path to the country.

 

[Knutsen]

---------------------------
Bo-Andre Namtvedt talks to local newspaper today. Here are some of the main points translated:...

http://sport.aftenposten.no/sport/sykkel/article254983.ece

 

[meandmygitane]

The implicated swede distributing amphetamines at Postgirot is Tommy Prim, second at Giro 83,84 and also with wins in Tirreno-A and tour of romandy. He denies the allegations. "I can die with a clean conscience"

Swedish:
http://www.expressen.se/sport/prim-anklagas-for-att-ha-delat-ut-amfetamin/

Also noted.. Glenn Magnusson, head of swedish national team, sais he never saw doping in his year at USP. But he was never meant to go to the tour.

I don't understand this: Silseth said he thought it was Caffeine pills when he ingested them/one, but then somehow found out it was really Centramin/Amphetamine.
How did he find out, was he told before or after ingestion? Did he receive more than one pill and what happened with those?

 

[Velo1ticker]

Ya Bingo . All you have to do is change the sports and listen to the national heros of years gone by , of how acceptable it was to lose the classic 50km to a non norge .
That will never happen again . More about national pride than trying to rule the world via the Lance style . but non the same , no one country is immune to doping .
Just change the sport and read the infractions then follow the path to the country.

There must be some (cheater everywhere - no country is immune) but all of them. Once again: Name some norwegian skiiers or skaters!

Isn't it clear to everyone after ValVerde and Indurain comments that some counties live on a different planet when it comes to combating doping.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

I don't understand this: Silseth said he thought it was Caffeine pills when he ingested them/one, but then somehow found out it was really Centramin/Amphetamine.
How did he find out, was he told before or after ingestion? Did he receive more than one pill and what happened with those?

--------------
The effect of not getting tired at all, and not sleeping for two days might have made him investigate what he really took ?

 

[stainlessguy1]

There must be some (cheater everywhere - no country is immune) but all of them. Once again: Name some norwegian skiiers or skaters!

Isn't it clear to everyone after ValVerde and Indurain comments that some counties live on a different planet when it comes to combating doping.

ok , so on short notice this is all i could find , but you can follow the links yourself .
If you can bare with the language , then there are some that are interviewed in English and some interesting messages .
I hope you dont need more proof , it is what it is .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QET6uTxCAr4

 

[meandmygitane]

--------------
The effect of not getting tired at all, and not sleeping for two days might have made him investigate what he really took ?

That is the point: how could he have done that? Was he told by someone? Did he have more pills and where did they went? Was there some kind of marking on the pills?

I feel like there is information is missing from this story. We have no information if the swedish cyclist himself know that it was amphetamine? They can both claim/feign the same ignorance. Lots of possibilities.

 

[neineinei]

There must be some (cheater everywhere - no country is immune) but all of them. Once again: Name some norwegian skiiers or skaters!

Isn't it clear to everyone after ValVerde and Indurain comments that some counties live on a different planet when it comes to combating doping.

Don't know of any long track speed skater except Claudia Pechstein who has been caught. I guess there must be some more, but not much. Doping is rampant in cycling, but close to unknown in speed skating. Seems strange.

Norwegian skier Ine Wigernæs was positive for caffeine. So was Norwegian cyclist Anita Valen. Both was let off because caffeine was to be romoved from the WADA list at a later date.

http://www.langrenn.com/domsutvalget-for-dopingsaker-et-supperaad.108053-18012.html