Apparently, Kjærgaard is still both deaf and blind. This ****ing **** still claims he never saw anyone dope at US Postal and evidently aims for the biggest muppet of them all award.
- Jul 5, 2010
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Velo1ticker said:
Erik Tysse is one (CERA), no?
Don't you think that there may be more norwegian (ex-)dopers beside the ones already catched? Especially in the light of recent events.
Alpehue said:
Ah yes Andersen, blind and deaf in all his DS years
Was an interesting comment on eb.dk that there was a rumor that on chicky world Andersen had come out of a pharmarcy on the first day of a training camp with two full shopping bags, of which the team doctor took about half.
LouieLouie said:
No, that is a misrepresetation of what he said. He said that he did not peronally witness anyone shooting up, but he quite clearly states that the doping was organised by the team.
In other words, not claiming to be deaf or blind, just that he didnt shoot up together with any other rider.
- Jun 11, 2012
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It would be very interesting to get the opinion of two Norwegian team-mates of mine from the ADR days: Torjus Larssen, and Bo-Andre Namvedt. Both excellent amateur riders, both solid professionals but left the sport disillusioned... I wonder if they have anything to do with the sport these days?
As far as Kim Anderson is concerned... bad reputation.
As far as Kim Anderson is concerned... bad reputation.
- Oct 16, 2009
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Same bull**** excuse Vaughters, Zabriskie, Millar and the rest have given. "I hope riders today don't have to make the choice I had to make." ****ing winds me up. It was interesting to learn how Vaughters introduced guys like Vandevelde, Zabriskie, Leipheimer to doping way back in 97. I wonder if Kjærgaard played that same role to any Norwegian cyclists...
- Feb 10, 2010
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goggalor said:
Amen brother!
The American cycling development system has generated a long list of now confirmed dopers for +/- 20 years now. I wonder if it is common to more than two national cycling federations.
esafosfina said:It would be very interesting to get the opinion of two Norwegian team-mates of mine from the ADR days: Torjus Larssen, and Bo-Andre Namvedt. Both excellent amateur riders, both solid professionals but left the sport disillusioned... I wonder if they have anything to do with the sport these days?
As far as Kim Anderson is concerned... bad reputation.
Bo Andre runs a (really good) bike store in Bergen http://www.boasykler.no/display.aspx
goggalor said:
Nope that is not true. Hi said that he hoped other Norwegian riders don't and didn't make the same choice as he did. He stated that he started doping to keep up and be competitive. Nowhere does he say that he was "forced" to do this or otherwise forfeiting a dream. He stated that he hoped to take the lie with to the grave and that the only reason he came forard was that the lie had lately become untenable.
All in all, I thought he made no excuses for his actions. Of all the confessions so far I think this was the most honest.
meandmygitane said:
This question was not for me, but of course there are many ex-dopers from Norway and also some really big names. I will not name anyone, but the -94 Olympics is particularly interesting.
- Jun 11, 2012
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- Aug 9, 2012
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My Impressions from The Kjærgaard doping.
Not trusting journalists to get the details correct I had to take some time to review the press conferences. One journalist for example asked if he remembered an event relating to taking epo on the buss behind shaded windows. (I think this was in THs book and happened in the 1999 tour before Kjærgaards time)
Kjærgaard started at TVM. He understood after a while that the sport was full of dope but was resolute in not wanting to do it himself.
Finally he was told by a doctor and DS that he should go home and get a regular job.
The process of leaving TVM and going to Chicky world would be interesting to know more about. Sadly this was not touched upon.
At Chicky World (Denmark) in 1998 he came to the conclusion that he would need to dope. He did not want to go home and back to being an amateur.
He said he had heard of talk in the peleton of a Belgian doctor(Georges Mouton), and went discretely to see him. He gives the impression of wanting to be very private about his doping. He also doesn't know if Kim Andersen knew.
When he went to US postal he said all doping was between him and Del Moral. Giving the example of chatting with the doc while his roommate was at the masseuse. He gives the impression of knowing very little and being very private about it. In a previous interview he talked about not having much contact with the others except for Matt White(the Aussie who left his post last week).
He is however very open to the likelihood of Brunel having full knowledge of what went on, but that might also be something he has understood from the USADA documents.
Overall this gives the impression of an omerta type confession. I'm thinking he is so used to lying, and would need to peel away an additional level of his lie before he could talk about others. He said he would reflect out loud with Norwegian Anti Doping. I suspect they will get more details about others he might know of, though I'm not sure.
It could be USADA could have use for him in their case against Brunel.
His doping appears do be the standard micro dosing of epo and recovery drugs. I get the impression he was not a heavy user all season like Tyler Hamilton or Floyd Landis.
He says the EPO takes longer than a day to have effect.
Says he stopped the drugs in 2002. Quit because the response of the micro doses felt too small in regards to the risk of getting caught. And he felt he had enough with doping. Could be because of wife and kids, and new values as a result of that.
His contract was not renewed and he did not appear to want it renewed after the 2003 season.
On the Norwegian cycling presidents behavior and answers.
Omerta by the president? No. They arrange the presser, and wanted everything out. Kjærgaard called them the day before about it. The President became suspect when the news report about injections without knowing its contents appeared. Asked about when Floyd came out, he said he asked Kjærgaard who apparently denied.
When the President interjected in the presser, and said names should go to ad Norway. I agreed with the president interjecting at that time. I'm not quite sure why I agreed. But emotionally at the time I think it was the right thing to do. Perhaps the president didn't want to push an emotional Kjærgaard more in a presser. I didn't expect more details from him of others at the presser, and I don't think the President thought that either. I think AD Norway will get more info from him this way. Had he been forced too much on the defensive I think he would be less open with them.
On talk of politics relating to the UCI.
Asked about Hein, he left the niceties behind. He thinks Hein tried to cover up the doping culture, and is very unhappy about his continued role in the UCI.
On a question about cycling being kicked out of the IOC while Hein remains at the IOC, he agrees and finds that hard to understand. (He has had spats with the Norwegian head of the marketing commission relating to all the doping in cycling. Probably using the opportunity to hit back)
Asked why he doesn't do anything about Hein, he says that we have very little power, and can only voice our displeasure over Heins UCI role.
On Mcqaid he says that he has done a lot to get rid of doping. And resent positive efforts have been under his watch. This is I think true, and the Norwegian AD seems to support that notion.
A lot of people and organizations have been very careful to point to Heins role as negative and to Pats role as positive. This is of course a question of politics. I think Pat was head of the road committee from 98-2005, so he probably has something to answer for. How much is unclear. However smart politics dictate that it is important to separate Hein from Pat. When Hein is pushed out, Pats role should become clearer. He will certainly become weaker. If facts dictate his culpability it would be easier to push him out.
The Norwegian Anti Doping agency also had a presser.
They had some interesting information. They knew early on about the difficulty in catching epo use, and together with AD Denmark and Bengt Saltin set up a blood profile program in 2002-2003. This has expanded into the blood passport program that now also follows testosterone and HGH.
They appear very impressed with USADA and have good cooperation with them. Tygart was in Norway in 2009 to talk about the Balco case. They hope to get more info so they can see if there are other Norwegians involved. They have set up their own working group to follow up the USADA report.
They hired an investigator this year and they are pushing for the government to make use of PEDs illegal(its already illegal to transport across borders). They said that they had discovered HGH in the garbage after an international event in Norway. On cycling they said they had been very critical of the UCI in the past. They said there was a before and after 2007 when the UCI outsourced a lot of testing and became more transparent. Now they have good cooperation with the UCI regarding testing of athletes.
He said the UCI fronted sanctioning possibilities in the WADA rules relating to the blood passport, and that they have sent a lot of these cases to CAS.
Not trusting journalists to get the details correct I had to take some time to review the press conferences. One journalist for example asked if he remembered an event relating to taking epo on the buss behind shaded windows. (I think this was in THs book and happened in the 1999 tour before Kjærgaards time
)Kjærgaard started at TVM. He understood after a while that the sport was full of dope but was resolute in not wanting to do it himself.
Finally he was told by a doctor and DS that he should go home and get a regular job.
The process of leaving TVM and going to Chicky world would be interesting to know more about. Sadly this was not touched upon.
At Chicky World (Denmark) in 1998 he came to the conclusion that he would need to dope. He did not want to go home and back to being an amateur.
He said he had heard of talk in the peleton of a Belgian doctor(Georges Mouton), and went discretely to see him. He gives the impression of wanting to be very private about his doping. He also doesn't know if Kim Andersen knew.
When he went to US postal he said all doping was between him and Del Moral. Giving the example of chatting with the doc while his roommate was at the masseuse. He gives the impression of knowing very little and being very private about it. In a previous interview he talked about not having much contact with the others except for Matt White(the Aussie who left his post last week).
He is however very open to the likelihood of Brunel having full knowledge of what went on, but that might also be something he has understood from the USADA documents.
Overall this gives the impression of an omerta type confession. I'm thinking he is so used to lying, and would need to peel away an additional level of his lie before he could talk about others. He said he would reflect out loud with Norwegian Anti Doping. I suspect they will get more details about others he might know of, though I'm not sure.
It could be USADA could have use for him in their case against Brunel.
His doping appears do be the standard micro dosing of epo and recovery drugs. I get the impression he was not a heavy user all season like Tyler Hamilton or Floyd Landis.
He says the EPO takes longer than a day to have effect.
Says he stopped the drugs in 2002. Quit because the response of the micro doses felt too small in regards to the risk of getting caught. And he felt he had enough with doping. Could be because of wife and kids, and new values as a result of that.
His contract was not renewed and he did not appear to want it renewed after the 2003 season.
On the Norwegian cycling presidents behavior and answers.
Omerta by the president? No. They arrange the presser, and wanted everything out. Kjærgaard called them the day before about it. The President became suspect when the news report about injections without knowing its contents appeared. Asked about when Floyd came out, he said he asked Kjærgaard who apparently denied.
When the President interjected in the presser, and said names should go to ad Norway. I agreed with the president interjecting at that time. I'm not quite sure why I agreed. But emotionally at the time I think it was the right thing to do. Perhaps the president didn't want to push an emotional Kjærgaard more in a presser. I didn't expect more details from him of others at the presser, and I don't think the President thought that either. I think AD Norway will get more info from him this way. Had he been forced too much on the defensive I think he would be less open with them.
On talk of politics relating to the UCI.
Asked about Hein, he left the niceties behind. He thinks Hein tried to cover up the doping culture, and is very unhappy about his continued role in the UCI.
On a question about cycling being kicked out of the IOC while Hein remains at the IOC, he agrees and finds that hard to understand. (He has had spats with the Norwegian head of the marketing commission relating to all the doping in cycling. Probably using the opportunity to hit back
) Asked why he doesn't do anything about Hein, he says that we have very little power, and can only voice our displeasure over Heins UCI role.
On Mcqaid he says that he has done a lot to get rid of doping. And resent positive efforts have been under his watch. This is I think true, and the Norwegian AD seems to support that notion.
A lot of people and organizations have been very careful to point to Heins role as negative and to Pats role as positive. This is of course a question of politics. I think Pat was head of the road committee from 98-2005, so he probably has something to answer for. How much is unclear. However smart politics dictate that it is important to separate Hein from Pat. When Hein is pushed out, Pats role should become clearer. He will certainly become weaker. If facts dictate his culpability it would be easier to push him out.
The Norwegian Anti Doping agency also had a presser.
They had some interesting information. They knew early on about the difficulty in catching epo use, and together with AD Denmark and Bengt Saltin set up a blood profile program in 2002-2003. This has expanded into the blood passport program that now also follows testosterone and HGH.
They appear very impressed with USADA and have good cooperation with them. Tygart was in Norway in 2009 to talk about the Balco case. They hope to get more info so they can see if there are other Norwegians involved. They have set up their own working group to follow up the USADA report.
They hired an investigator this year and they are pushing for the government to make use of PEDs illegal(its already illegal to transport across borders). They said that they had discovered HGH in the garbage after an international event in Norway. On cycling they said they had been very critical of the UCI in the past. They said there was a before and after 2007 when the UCI outsourced a lot of testing and became more transparent. Now they have good cooperation with the UCI regarding testing of athletes.
He said the UCI fronted sanctioning possibilities in the WADA rules relating to the blood passport, and that they have sent a lot of these cases to CAS.
- Aug 9, 2012
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A quick summation:
95-97 at TVM.
Knew of the doping but refused. Recommended to go home and get a job by a DS and doctor.
98-99 Chicky World.
Started doping in 98.
2000-2003 US Postal.
Doped by del Moral until 2002. Clean in 2003 season.
Cycling people appear willing to focus on Heins role. Even a president in a micro federation is willing to speak out.
On doping.
UCI bad pre 2007.
Good/better after that.
Of note:
Atle Kvalsvoll, Hushovds agent and former pro said he had warned Kjærgaard about joining TVM. He appearently suspected the doping there.
95-97 at TVM.
Knew of the doping but refused. Recommended to go home and get a job by a DS and doctor.
98-99 Chicky World.
Started doping in 98.
2000-2003 US Postal.
Doped by del Moral until 2002. Clean in 2003 season.
Cycling people appear willing to focus on Heins role. Even a president in a micro federation is willing to speak out.
On doping.
UCI bad pre 2007.
Good/better after that.
Of note:
Atle Kvalsvoll, Hushovds agent and former pro said he had warned Kjærgaard about joining TVM. He appearently suspected the doping there.
- Aug 9, 2012
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Fidolix said:
There have been no Norwegian skaters, skiers and long distance skiers from the top level who have ever been caught doping.
We don't believe our cyclists are the best in the world, we hope they are all clean, and we know there is doping in Norway since people get caught. However athletes on the priorized list are rearly caught doping.
Hence one might assume that there is little doping in Norway.
Never heard him defending armstrong. And the bracelet destruction could have been for dramatic effect. He is a journalist, and they love drama. And the article was relating to Grete Waitz, who trusted armstrong, but died last year from cancer, probably still believing in cancer jesus.Fidolix said:
- Aug 9, 2012
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Fidolix said:
They had a problem with the testing procedures until 1997. I don't think they were aware of how much dehydration and exhaustion increased the HgB values. You could argue none were caught because of corruption, but I think that is unlikely. It could be some doped, but there is no proof nor indication of any Norwegians doping yet. So right now I'm sticking to the clean hypothesis.
Cloxxki said:
Protected by a language only Danes can read and swedes understand, we keep all our secrets safe.
Seriously, if there was a hint of any doping the media would dig. TV2 tried but fell on their face when their eagerness to expose the "myth of clean Norwegian athletes" got in the way of basic fact checking.
You would be surprised how willing we have been in regards to pleasing the US. (Luckily managed to stay out of the Iraq invasion.)
Anyway, this time it was a bad Norwegian in a Danish team.
- Aug 9, 2012
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Fidolix said:
Responded to the medical studies earlier. This is hotly debated in the XC skiing thread as well. Lack of people getting caught could be that no one was cheating. Incredible concept I know. Perhaps Norwegians are special?
The ski jumpers I think were more doping for recreational purposes, though perhaps one of them was doing it for weight loss.
Fidolix said:
My aunt worked at NATO. When were you there? Did you live in Bærum?
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