Steffen Kjaergaard - the naive and innocent Norwegian? ;)

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neineinei said:
Don't know of any long track speed skater except Claudia Pechstein who has been caught. I guess there must be some more, but not much. Doping is rampant in cycling, but close to unknown in speed skating. Seems strange.

Norwegian skier Ine Wigernæs was positive for caffeine. So was Norwegian cyclist Anita Valen. Both was let off because caffeine was to be romoved from the WADA list at a later date.

http://www.langrenn.com/domsutvalget-for-dopingsaker-et-supperaad.108053-18012.html

It's all about who your governing body is. If your sports decides there is no doping, then there is no doping. So-so local skaters such as Romme became unbeatable over 5-10km, and even won overall championships.
Never tested postive, faster skates and suits, we like our credibility!
 
May 19, 2010
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meandmygitane said:
That is the point: how could he have done that? Was he told by someone? Did he have more pills and where did they went? Was there some kind of marking on the pills?

I feel like there is information is missing from this story. We have no information if the swedish cyclist himself know that it was amphetamine? They can both claim/feign the same ignorance. Lots of possibilities.

Silseth says he was given a box with some pills by Prim during a crit in Sweden, after Postgiroet. He took one, believing it was caffeine pills or something and raced like he had a rocket up his ***. Presumably he then read on the box and saw it was Centramin?

Prim denies everything.

Silseth seems to have told this story many times over the years to various people in the cycling community, so it isn't something he has come up with now. So many knowing the story might explain why he told it to the press yesterday. Someone might have tipped of the press, and they have started phoning him. He didn't say anything to VG when they had their article two years ago where they contacted 12 former Norwegian cycling pros to ask them about doping. He says the reason for that was that he felt the focus of that article was wrong.
 
stainlessguy1 said:
ok , so on short notice this is all i could find , but you can follow the links yourself .
If you can bare with the language , then there are some that are interviewed in English and some interesting messages .
I hope you dont need more proof , it is what it is .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QET6uTxCAr4

I wrote a long post relating to that film/similar film, and this is a good oppurtunity to link to that thread so I don't have to exhaust my fingers.:D

The part about the Norwegians is relating to a serious journalism mistake. The part about the germans was also not true.

For any questions, reply to the following post in the doping in xc skiing thread.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1034746&postcount=538
 

Fidolix

BANNED
Jan 16, 2012
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D-Queued said:

I think the question went on endurance.
No doubt it´s much harder to finish a 3 weeks stage race, or run a marathon, than it is to play a soccer match.

It all depends of the conditions, your role and for how long you have to perform. I don´t think you can ever make a fair comparison that truly gives the correct answer.
 
Aug 21, 2012
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esafosfina said:
I can't speak for Bo-Andre and Torjus, and Norwegian media outlets but professional cycling in the UK did suffer from a lack of press in those days... under-reporting is a likely reason. I do remember making comment to journalists about the doping 'sub-culture' at the time and to be frank not a great deal was made of it!


Boa just did an interview with NRK (the public tv-channel here) where he described why he chose to be anonymous when he warned about the doping culture 16 years ago: http://www.nrk.no/sport/sykkel/1.8370266 ...omerta
 
Apr 29, 2011
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stainlessguy1 said:
ok , so on short notice this is all i could find , but you can follow the links yourself .
If you can bare with the language , then there are some that are interviewed in English and some interesting messages .
I hope you dont need more proof , it is what it is .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QET6uTxCAr4

What you are showing us is a Finnish attempt to tell the world everyone cheats after they have been caught. We have seen this accusation before. In your mind all the first-aid kits at the stadiums and the inventory in the athletes’ pharmacy in the Olympic village are being used by Norwegian athletes as doping. You missed the important part! When he talks about southern Europeans – you do know where to find Norway. When the Italian team won the relay I 1994 everyone knew the Italians were in something. 4 world and Olympic champions against 4 nobodies and an Italian doctor. The doctor won.
 
ToreBear said:
A quick summation:

95-97 at TVM.
Knew of the doping but refused. Recommended to go home and get a job by a DS and doctor.

98-99 Chicky World.
Started doping in 98.

2000-2003 US Postal.
Doped by del Moral until 2002. Clean in 2003 season.


Cycling people appear willing to focus on Heins role. Even a president in a micro federation is willing to speak out.

On doping.

UCI bad pre 2007.

Good/better after that.

Of note:
Atle Kvalsvoll, Hushovds agent and former pro said he had warned Kjærgaard about joining TVM. He appearently suspected the doping there.

Would that be the same Del Moral that has never seen doping, never heard of doping and doesn't even know what a syringe is?
 
frenchfry said:
Would that be the same Del Moral that has never seen doping, never heard of doping and doesn't even know what a syringe is?

Nah, couldn't be. Kjærgaard must be talking about a different doctor Del Moral working for USPS at the time.:D
 
Jul 16, 2011
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Had to read through this thread, as I'm a norwegian and obviously have a big interest in this.

I think most of you have the right picture of Kjaergaard, but to sum it up: he has never been liked by anyone. I'm more on the "meh"-side, as I don't really care, but seeing how he won gold and a silver at the world championships as a DS (Thor Hushovd and Boasson) and a bronze in the olympics with Kristoff, its pretty strange that he never managed to receive praise. He actually has been receiving critique for those races, especially in the olympics where people thought we should have won the gold as Kristoff was clearly the best sprinter in the front group. Obviously, he simply seems to lack any kind of charisma and ability to be liked by people.

As for the current case: The attitude is that he doesn't tell the whole story, and that he is pushed into clearing his conscience by the recent USADA-investigation. Right now the attitude amon norwegians is that cycling is a dirty sport, and that everyone here dopes, while skiers for instance are clean.

That brings us to cross-country and the work done by the norwegian anti-doping agency: First and foremost, I think the anti-doping agency has been doing a good job, and is pretty stubborn whenever they find results. They tolerate nothing. HOWEVER, I can obviously see that the norwegian results in the nineties do point at a strong possibility for a doping program. Personally, I'm not the type to believe in conspiration theories and similar things, so I think its unlikely, but the domination of cross country skiing does that I accept that others do. Two things to consider: Johan Muhleggs extreme rise t the top when he was on the juice in 02 makes it plausible to believe that it was a clean field otherwise (no one was near his level). And two: there simply isn't, or wasn't anyway, a lot of money in this sport. Not anywhere near the level of cycling. The olympic stars obviously was able to make a huge income in sponsorships and similar appointments, but most of the skiers were, and still is, living on support from the norwegian government. So the doping would be only for national pride. Plausible, but I decide to think otherwise.

Finally, as for the other norwegian cyclists, we know that Thor was a huge talent (won the U23-tempo in 98), who never seemed to quite live up to his potential despite some big wins. Eddy is very similar, a huge talent who just seems unable to take the last step, which suggest a clean slate. Kaggestad obviously never doped, he started getting some results at the end of his pro career when the field seemed to be cleaner, and he has always seemed to carry a very believable frustration towards the doping culture. Nordhaug is a bit different, he could be interpreted in either direction: a cleaner field or on the juice.

As for the old guard: Dag Otto Lauritzen was probably clean until he joined TVM, where he suddenly had a really good final to years to a decling career. Say no more. And on a general basis, the norwegians who became pros generally did it through southern european or danish amateur teams. The story about the naive norwegian is really true, and for most of them, I think no one even thought about taking a stance against doping before watching their italian or danish or whatever teammates taking pills before the big races (this was before EPO anyways, I do think doping was known in Norway in the nineties). I think this makes it plausible to think that most of them decided to take stuff, thinking that it wasnt cheating, it was just like drinking an energy drink or stuff like that.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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kanari said:
Even most Norwegians these days believe he was doped. That says something... :D

Yeah, but it all goes to show that the norwegian press is really powerful. If he was doped, then Bjoern Daehli, basicly the biggest norwegian hero ever (he is on the level of war heroes and Fridtjof Nansen), was probably also doped. However, like Kjaergaard, Koss just doesn't have the same charisma, which somehow gives him less credibility.

I was born in 92, so I really can't have a strong opinion around what happened in 92/94/98, but it is obviously suspicious that norwegians seemed unbeatable in winter sports around this time. It is either superior training or...
 
Apr 29, 2011
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thegrimpeur said:
Yeah, but it all goes to show that the norwegian press is really powerful. If he was doped, then Bjoern Daehli, basicly the biggest norwegian hero ever (he is on the level of war heroes and Fridtjof Nansen), was probably also doped. However, like Kjaergaard, Koss just doesn't have the same charisma, which somehow gives him less credibility.

I was born in 92, so I really can't have a strong opinion around what happened in 92/94/98, but it is obviously suspicious that norwegians seemed unbeatable in winter sports around this time. It is either superior training or...
Are you telling us that because one man doped (without evidence) all norwegian are doped? Are you working for someone? This isn't Italy.
 
thegrimpeur said:
Yeah, but it all goes to show that the norwegian press is really powerful. If he was doped, then Bjoern Daehli, basicly the biggest norwegian hero ever (he is on the level of war heroes and Fridtjof Nansen), was probably also doped. However, like Kjaergaard, Koss just doesn't have the same charisma, which somehow gives him less credibility.

I was born in 92, so I really can't have a strong opinion around what happened in 92/94/98, but it is obviously suspicious that norwegians seemed unbeatable in winter sports around this time. It is either superior training or...

They were very much beatable at that time. Norway were competitve, not dominant.
 
Cloxxki said:
Thanks for that!

Any thoughts on Dr. J.O. Koss? Superstar Olympian, charity man.

The article also mentions the TVM skating team in 98, and that people talked a lot about who was in the team, their support staff etc. This was because they heard of TVM cycling team ofcourse.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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Velo1ticker said:
Are you telling us that because one man doped (without evidence) all norwegian are doped? Are you working for someone? This isn't Italy.

Nah, I was just trying to point out that norwegians have a tendency to suspect people they don't like. I think neither doped, but I DO think that if one of them did, then yes it is more plausible that the other gold medal winners did take something themselves. Us being competitive in this era is automaticly suspicious, but I think it could just as well be a result of hard work, knowledge and commitment towards the winter games in Lillehammer. I think they were using the later banned altitude rooms quite a lot, for instance, which is a good example on how they could compete within the rules.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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I would just like to post some things Mads Kaggestad, who was a domestique at Credit Agricole for 5 years I think, said in a debate around doping on our national channel today. Mads is also a journalist, son of a very popular TV-commentator who has an extreme stance against doping (could it be because it robbed Mads of the few, slender successes he would have had as a pro?). Mads is one of only very few people connected to the world of cycling I FULLY trust:

- They all knew who was clean and who probably doped. He said the clean riders joked about it, while they spoke about other things, like the weather or scenery, with those known to be doping.

- They all talked about US Postal, and pretty much knew they doped.

- He praised Thor Hushovd, who also was there, saying that Thor took a leader position on Credit Agricole whenever someone suggested that they might think about trying it: He said Thor would basicly put them in their place and tell them to go find another team as he was having none of it.

- He also said that he had confronted Steffen Kjaergaard when he was with US Postal, and that Steffen obviously lied to him at that time
 
May 19, 2010
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Hans Falk, Kjærgaards successor as director of sport for the Norwegian Cycling Federation, has said a bit too much about what he thinks about Svein Gaute Hølestøl and his tales about what happend at Dr. Moutons, and the president of the Norwegian Cycling Federation says that what he said was unacceptable.

Falk has also said that Kim Andersen shouldn't have a place in cycling, he shouldn't be a leader, neither should other dopers.

http://www.procycling.no/article3501050.ece

Falk is on twitter. https://twitter.com/hampefalk
 
Aug 21, 2012
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neineinei said:
Hans Falk, Kjærgaards successor as director of sport for the Norwegian Cycling Federation, has said a bit too much about what he thinks about Svein Gaute Hølestøl and his tales about what happend at Dr. Moutons, and the president of the Norwegian Cycling Federation says that what he said was unacceptable.

Falk has also said that Kim Andersen shouldn't have a place in cycling, he shouldn't be a leader, neither should other dopers.

http://www.procycling.no/article3501050.ece

Falk is on twitter. https://twitter.com/hampefalk


The president of the Norwegian Cycling Federation should resign ASAP.
 
Jun 11, 2012
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Knutsen said:
Bo Andre Namtvedt says he was offered EPO by the doc already in 1990, riding for Tulip Computers:
http://www.google.com/translate?lan...aftenposten.no/sport/sykkel/article254983.ece

Just to make a distinction. The Tulip Computers cycling team started in 1991, and was a hugely different set-up to the ADR-IOC-Tulip team of 1990. In 1990 the riders were not being paid full salary (neither were staff) and pressures were very high within the team. (I witnessed riders coming to blows in change-rooms; riders selling races; bikes and equipment going 'missing'...) The team as such had no official doctor, however some riders chose to stay under the 'care' of Van Mol (Doctor from the 1989 ADR team). The soigneurs were the 'everyday' contact for riders, and yes, Bo-Andre is correct in saying that some of these staff-members were less than scrupulous when it came to 'preparations'.