...still deciding if they would cooperate...

[scribe]

I wonder how enforceable US law is regarding some of these issues. For example, can US authorities arrest someone for smoking cheeba in Amsterdam?

 

[Rip:30]

i can see that from the comments. i am asking why that is. why do people want to get armstrong at all costs and let everyone else off?

they are all adults and they all doped, no?

is this about doping? or getting armstrong?

LA/JB are suspected of facilitating (teaching) others to dope and how to avoid being detected.

FLandis is also accusing LA of corrupting the UCI, which oversees much anti-dope testing, with payoffs.

It's like going after Escobar instead of your neighborhood coke dealer/user.

 

[HelmutRoole]

They'll lawyer up and invoke the 5th which doesn't look too good if you're clean.


This is the beginning of the end and when these guys understand how serious this investigation is, they'll be flipping quick.

Guys like DZ and CVV threw Decanio under the bus when they all knew he spoke the truth.

Eff em.

And Decanio's results at the time were much better than theirs. Second to Micheal Rogers at Bauce at 21? Not too shabby.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

i can see that from the comments. i am asking why that is. why do people want to get armstrong at all costs and let everyone else off?

they are all adults and they all doped, no?

is this about doping? or getting armstrong?

I know you just joined today and everything, so perhaps you have missed the numerous discussions on other riders and the role of UCI & USA Cycling.

 

[HelmutRoole]

DeCanio was a nut. Seriously. He went way off the deep end. No one wanted to be associated with him.

It drove him crazy. True.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

hi, just found this site today.

reading this thread, it seems most people think everybody should get immunity
if they talk, apart from armstrong.

but why can't armstrong get immunity if he cooperates?

is this only about armstrong? why is he the big target for most people?

He owned the team. He won the Tour x7. He has a charity that handles millions in donations. He is "Don Armstrong", to use a mafia colloquialism. It all rolls up to him and Bruyneel.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

i can see that from the comments. i am asking why that is. why do people want to get armstrong at all costs and let everyone else off?

they are all adults and they all doped, no?

is this about doping? or getting armstrong?

I think there are some who want that here, but for the most part there are either very reasonable doubters and a host of fans who are not out to GET anyone. I don't know what is actually happening with all this, but like the college drug dealers in my neighborhood, they went after the little dope suckers first and took out 95 dealers who all went to prison. It's like when I go tuna fishing and they sell me tiny little live bait. Chomp chomp. And I snag the big one.

 

[Ginkgo]

I know you just joined today and everything, so perhaps you have missed the numerous discussions on other riders and the role of UCI & USA Cycling.

i'm going on the comments in this thread. there seems to be a strong need to get armstrong rather than stop doping. as long as you talk about armstrong, everybody else is allowed immunity. etc

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think there are some who want that here, but for the most part there are either very reasonable doubters and a host of fans who are not out to GET anyone. I don't know what is actually happening with all this, but like the college drug dealers in my neighborhood, they went after the little dope suckers first and took out 95 dealers who all went to prison. It's like when I go tuna fishing and they sell me tiny little live bait. Chomp chomp. And I snag the big one.

Sorry - 'shawn', it seems we all went for the bait of our new poster.

Which of course proves your theory.

 

[frenchfry]

I looked at it and it's hilarious. This guy is like an open book. A pity he had his shades on. Someone should catch him indoors. The body language and facial expression is really telling. Even someone with only rudimentary interrogation skills could crack this nut in 10 minutes max.

I would have thought being a smooth liar would be a prerequisite for working for Lance.

Lim as a liar -FAIL

 

[Ginkgo]

I think there are some who want that here, but for the most part there are either very reasonable doubters and a host of fans who are not out to GET anyone. I don't know what is actually happening with all this, but like the college drug dealers in my neighborhood, they went after the little dope suckers first and took out 95 dealers who all went to prison. It's like when I go tuna fishing and they sell me tiny little live bait. Chomp chomp. And I snag the big one.

it is claimed eddie mercx introduced armstrong to doping.

i doubt most riders first came into contact with dope upon meeting armstrong. some will, but armstrong did not introduce doping into the peloton. it was widespread before he ever won a tour.

and the riders that people want immunity for will have dealed to other young riders as well during their careers. does that make them drug dealers?

i'm not getting why that doesn't matter as long as armstrong goes down.

is this about doping? or is this about armstrong?

 

[Wallace]

i'm going on the comments in this thread. there seems to be a strong need to get armstrong rather than stop doping. as long as you talk about armstrong, everybody else is allowed immunity. etc

Oh, cut it out. Spend some time reading the threads here, and get at least a little acquainted with the discussion, or shut up.

To just chime in with the faux-naive, little-old-me just wondering act is just stupid.

 

[pedaling squares]

I understand where you're coming from, but you're getting too far ahead of the game right now.

If people won't cooperate, or choose to lie and dare anyone to contradict them, then all of this will go nowhere.

No, I think I tempered my comments. It is pretty clear that I am musing about potential, not predicting what will unfold. Sure, this goes nowhere if every single person interviewed provides nothing in the way of evidence. Lance et al will ride away, Landis will be held up as a desperate nut. But if the investigators get cooperation from even a single rider or support staffer, the ball can start to slowly roll. If Zabriskie were to cooperate as has been discussed here, he could potentially corroborate Landis's claims about USPS, and add intel about CSC and Garmin. That could cause spin off investigations by agencies in other jurisdictions. There doesn't seem to be as much appetite to catch dopers outside the US, so this may very well go nowhere. But we should all stay tuned for a long time yet.

 

[Ginkgo]

He owned the team. He won the Tour x7. He has a charity that handles millions in donations. He is "Don Armstrong", to use a mafia colloquialism. It all rolls up to him and Bruyneel.

that's what i'm saying. not liking his cancer charity is not a reason to single him out over other dopers.

isn't that the wrong criteria if doping is what you are about stopping?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

it is claimed eddie mercx introduced armstrong to doping.

i doubt most riders first came into contact with dope upon meeting armstrong. some will, but armstrong did not introduce doping into the peloton. it was widespread before he ever won a tour.

and the riders that people want immunity for will have dealed to other young riders as well during their careers. does that make them drug dealers?

i'm not getting why that doesn't matter as long as armstrong goes down.

is this about doping? or is this about armstrong?

I will borrow your quote and ask you the question......

is this about doping? or is this about armstrong?

No need to answer it BPC, we already know.

 

[perico]

And Decanio's results at the time were much better than theirs. Second to Micheal Rogers at Bauce at 21? Not too shabby.

Vande Velde was a monster at an early age. He was already a pro at 21, having finished 3rd that year in the 4 days of Dunkirk, and winning the white jersey. He also won the WC in the Individual Pursuit, if memory serves. His results went down after Lance came back in 1999

 

[Ginkgo]

Oh, cut it out. Spend some time reading the threads here, and get at least a little acquainted with the discussion, or shut up.

To just chime in with the faux-naive, little-old-me just wondering act is just stupid.

upon asking questions most have confirmed to me that they are only really interested in getting armstrong, so questions do go a long way.

i think i've got the answer now.

thanks guys.

 

[Publicus]

upon asking questions most have confirmed to me that they are only really interested in getting armstrong, so questions do go a long way.

i think i've got the answer now.

thanks guys.

You are welcome. Glad you confirmed your pre-conceived notion.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

it is claimed eddie mercx introduced armstrong to doping.

i doubt most riders first came into contact with dope upon meeting armstrong. some will, but armstrong did not introduce doping into the peloton. it was widespread before he ever won a tour.

and the riders that people want immunity for will have dealed to other young riders as well during their careers. does that make them drug dealers?

i'm not getting why that doesn't matter as long as armstrong goes down.

is this about doping? or is this about armstrong?

It is really not about "Armstrong", to my understanding, it is about people breaking US Federal Laws.

All of your other other points are red herrings. Immaterial to the issues at hand.

 

[Cobblestones]

upon asking questions most have confirmed to me that they are only really interested in getting armstrong, so questions do go a long way.

i think i've got the answer now.

thanks guys.

whatever, dude.

 

[Rip:30]

Landis' e-mails are an interesting teaser, but if there really is substance behind his accusations, there's bound to be a further tidal wave of details forthcoming from Landis to those in charge of the investigation. The who's, where's, when's, details from conversations, moods, settings, facts, interpretations, speculations. On-the-record statements in a federal investigation is serious stuff, and Landis has faced the realities of the judicial processes before. He's burned his bridges, and is obviously prepared to spill the beans. If he's not for real, I'm quite positive the investigating bodies would've wised up to that fact already. A simple lie is easy enough to construct, but once a proficient interrogator start prodding a liar on the details, and on the minute details of the details, their game is up, real quick. Just the fact that the FDA hasn't washed their hands of him by now is an indication that this is the real deal. If I were one of the two persons mentioned in the NYT-piece, I'd do a quick calculation and side with truth. You'd look a real azz in the clinker, having lied when all the world has learned the truth.
Behind the cyclists doing dope is quite an apparatus. The logistics of it, the details, the providers, the financing, is too big to not leave a trail of evidence somewhere. Follow the money. Do audits. If there's reality behind Landis' claims, the evidence will be found. This is no simple blood-test you'll have to fool, and it won't go away.

+1

All excellent points.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You are welcome. Glad you confirmed your pre-conceived notion.

It is 10 minutes to the hour here - how long before he gets a new IP address?

Any takers?

 

[thehog]

Livingston works in the basement of Mellow Johnny's. Can't see him stepping up.

Correct. He hated the drugs* but couldn't find work after T-Mobile and eventually Armstrong extended his hand and he’s a professional trainer in the basement of Mellow Johnny’s. Really nice guy and tells a great story. Still keeps in touch with Jan. By email.




* He was surprised when he went to T-Mobile that the drugs of choice were left up to the riders. He was also surpirised how little Ullrich did.

 

[pedaling squares]

It is 10 minutes to the hour here - how long before he gets a new IP address?

Any takers?

Banned by breakfast.

 

[BroDeal]

It is 10 minutes to the hour here - how long before he gets a new IP address?

Any takers?

He does not have a new IP address. He was lying about that. When they have been banning him, they have simply been banning his account. They have done a few IP bans, but he has been using proxies to get around those bans.