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Strade Bianche 2024, March 2, one-day classic (men's)

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sam6

sam6

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Gigs_98 said:
Sagan never winning this race is another one of those weird holes in his palmares. The guy was super successful, yet there are so many races tailor made for him he could never win.
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Sagan's palmares is actually quite underwhelming considering how dominant he was perceived to be. He never won Strade Bianche. He never won Amstel. He never won Milan Sanremo. He only one Flanders and Roubaix once each (ok this is still very impressive.) 'Only' winning 2 monuments is not enough for a rider of his talent. Van der Poel has already won 4 and I suspect this will increase. Arguably, MVDP already has a better palmares than Sagan especially if you include cyclocross. Boonen and Cancellara won 7 monuments each
 
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Salvarani

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sam6 said:
Sagan's palmares is actually quite underwhelming considering how dominant he was perceived to be. He never won Strade Bianche. He never won Amstel. He never won Milan Sanremo. He only one Flanders and Roubaix once each (ok this is still very impressive.) 'Only' winning 2 monuments is not enough for a rider of his talent. Van der Poel has already won 4 and I suspect this will increase. Arguably, MVDP already has a better palmares than Sagan especially if you include cyclocross. Boonen and Cancellara won 7 monuments each
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Yeah, but nobody of them won three worlds and 7 (?) Green Jerseys.

Sagan often had the worst team for long a time and everybody rode against him.

If you saw the races and how good he was in his prime, you would know how great he was.

Thats why simply looking at a list of palmares sometimes leads to undermining posts like this.
 
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sam6

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Salvarani said:
Yeah, but nobody of them won three worlds and 7 (?) Green Jerseys.

Sagan often had the worst team for long a time and everybody rode against him.

If you saw the races and how good he was in his prime, you would know how great he was.

Thats why simply looking at a list of palmares sometimes leads to undermining posts like this.
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Well if he was so great then why didn't he have more big wins? 3 world titles is amazing but in total, that's 5 big wins same as MVDP has now. It sounds a lot like wasted talent. He picked the team he rode for so I don't think that's an excuse. He could have ridden for any team in the world but he picked a weak team because of his own arrogance thinking that he could win on his own with just his brother and best friends to help, and that is his own fault. His God complex and ego of wanting to be the only star in his team held him back
 
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AmRacer

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sam6 said:
Well if he was so great then why didn't he have more big wins? 3 world titles is amazing but in total, that's 5 big wins same as MVDP has now. It sounds a lot like wasted talent. He picked the team he rode for so I don't think that's an excuse. He could have ridden for any team in the world but he picked a weak team because of his own arrogance thinking that he could win on his own with just his brother and best friends to help, and that is his own fault. His God complex and ego of wanting to be the only star in his team held him back
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You're right, five big wins isn't that much really. 🤔
 
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Salvarani

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sam6 said:
Well if he was so great then why didn't he have more big wins? 3 world titles is amazing but in total, that's 5 big wins same as MVDP has now. It sounds a lot like wasted talent. He picked the team he rode for so I don't think that's an excuse. He could have ridden for any team in the world but he picked a weak team because of his own arrogance thinking that he could win on his own with just his brother and best friends to help, and that is his own fault. His God complex and ego of wanting to be the only star in his team held him back
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You just hate/dont like Sagan. Noted.
 
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Red Rick

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I don't think it's controversial to say that Sagan underformed in monuments if we go by his reputation and superstar status. You can go 4 ways with this:

1. He wasted his talent and should have won more monuments/tier 1 1days
2. His talent for these races is perhaps a little overrated
3. Monuments aren't that important.
4. He didn't win that much in these races cause his competition was that strong.

Overall I am squarely behind explanation 2.
 
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sam6

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AmRacer said:
You're right, five big wins isn't that much really. 🤔
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It's a lot and he had a great career. But considering he is considered the best classics rider of his generation it's not a lot. It's the same as MVDP has now and he will increase it. Boonen had 8. Cancellara has 7. I'm not saying that isn't amazing but he had the talent to do more
 
Gigs_98

Gigs_98

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Red Rick said:
I don't think it's controversial to say that Sagan underformed in monuments if we go by his reputation and superstar status. You can go 4 ways with this:

1. He wasted his talent and should have won more monuments/tier 1 1days
2. His talent for these races is perhaps a little overrated
3. Monuments aren't that important.
4. He didn't win that much in these races cause his competition was that strong.

Overall I am squarely behind explanation 2.
Click to expand...
I think it's also that people are always measuring Sagan by his peak, which was really high. A guy who was the classics guy of his generation only winning 5 big one day races doesn't feel like that much. But once you consider the length of his peak it's not that surprising. People who thought he would win much more did so because they thought he would still be fighting for monuments in 2024.

Considering Strade Bianche being tailor made for him, I guess it's not really. But it still feels like he should have won a race where the winners come from a spectrum ranging from Cancellara to Kwiatkowski. If Cancellara, MvdP, WvA, etc. have all won it, he really should have too.
 
tobydawq

tobydawq

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sam6 said:
Sagan's palmares is actually quite underwhelming considering how dominant he was perceived to be. He never won Strade Bianche. He never won Amstel. He never won Milan Sanremo. He only one Flanders and Roubaix once each (ok this is still very impressive.) 'Only' winning 2 monuments is not enough for a rider of his talent. Van der Poel has already won 4 and I suspect this will increase. Arguably, MVDP already has a better palmares than Sagan especially if you include cyclocross. Boonen and Cancellara won 7 monuments each
Click to expand...

At least he won the WCRR three times in a row. That secured his legacy because yes, his classics palmares never became what it should have been.
 
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gregrowlerson

gregrowlerson

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Red Rick said:
I don't think it's controversial to say that Sagan underformed in monuments if we go by his reputation and superstar status. You can go 4 ways with this:

1. He wasted his talent and should have won more monuments/tier 1 1days
2. His talent for these races is perhaps a little overrated
3. Monuments aren't that important.
4. He didn't win that much in these races cause his competition was that strong.

Overall I am squarely behind explanation 2.
Click to expand...

Sagan kind of over achieved in some ways, and under achieved in others.

He was never on the level of MVDP, not in one day races. He was maybe fractionally better than his opposition, but could be marked like he was as good as MVDP.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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ashhutch1997 said:
As much as I love this race, I really don't like this route change. The old run in with Monte Sante Marie ect worked so well, giving opportunities for long range attacks.
They could of easily made the race the same distance but added sections easier on.
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Agreed.
Netserk said:
A loop near the end so that they do two sectors twice? Bah. There are so many options, and there is no good reason to change the last 110 km of the route as it was.

Distance is good, but this is not a good way to achieve it.
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Blanco

Blanco

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sam6 said:
It's a lot and he had a great career. But considering he is considered the best classics rider of his generation it's not a lot. It's the same as MVDP has now and he will increase it. Boonen had 8. Cancellara has 7. I'm not saying that isn't amazing but he had the talent to do more
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All better classics riders then Sagan...
But Sagan was not just classics rider...
 
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