Subpoenas issued -- Armstrong's goose is cooked

[Animal]

I can't see Astana letting a break containing LA go even if the break looks like it won't get him into a position to be a threat on GC.

 

[Roland Rat]

Being no longer a GC threat he should be allowed to try for a stage win, there's no reason to chase down a breakaway because Armstrong is in it, so if he can get into one and beat the other riders fair and square he's welcome to it. That doesn't mean the race should be fixed to give him one and even if Schleck, Contador and Cancellara all felt he should there's no way the stage hunting teams would agree. If he managed to keep up with Schleck and Contador on a climb they can give it to him if they want, though they're not obligated to. They don't have any right to or possibility of getting the entire peloton to agree though.

Oh I don't know, I'd love to see Contador give him the Simeoni treatment.

 

[Cerberus]

Oh I don't know, I'd love to see Contador give him the Simeoni treatment.

I'm sure you would.

I would hardly blame him for it if he did either, but Contador doesn't seem very petty to me, he's almost consistently taken the high rode in his relation with Armstrong, he might keep doing that, however much you'd prefer otherwise.

 

[Benotti69]

..
. The new patron Cancellara, preferably along with mj Schleck and defending champ Contador, should go to Armstrong and arrange for him to win a transition stage this week - let him know that the sport will keep its dignity and traditions, but also that his time has gone and the sport is moved on without him.

do you think this guy who has an ego bigger than any athlete that has been before in any sport ever, will accept that. This guy doesn't give a damn about any other rider in the peleton, why did he come back? He'll want a podium place....

 

[R.0.t.O]

do you think this guy who has an ego bigger than any athlete that has been before in any sport ever, will accept that. This guy doesn't give a damn about any other rider in the peleton, why did he come back? He'll want a podium place....

In which case he leaves with nothing.

 

[tockit]

You mean the case in which it was the the Bush administration DoJ that decided not to pursue charges? That decision to downgrade was made before either Obama or Holder took office. Holder had nothing to do with it.

Stop watching FoxNews, it'll rot your brain.

Whatever you want to believe .....

 

[Benotti69]

In which case he leaves with nothing.

exactamondo. i don't believe he has the true respect of the podium, they may show it in front of him, but not feel it.

i wonder how many of the peleton wear the yellow bracelet showing respect for the guy.....i imagine it is part of the uniform as much as oakley's

 

[HL2037]

Now feltet.dk reports:

"... Alle indkaldte vidner vil kunne aflægge deres vidnesbyrd i fuld anonymitet ..."

which translates into

"... all subpoened witnesses will be able to give their testimony in full anonymity ..."

http://feltet.dk/index.php?id_parent=1&id=28&id_nyhed=26994

Did anybody hear about this? Maybe they misunderstood?

 

[R.0.t.O]

exactamondo. i don't believe he has the true respect of the podium, they may show it in front of him, but not feel it.

i wonder how many of the peleton wear the yellow bracelet showing respect for the guy.....i imagine it is part of the uniform as much as oakley's

Almost everyone in the pro peloton is, to some extent, aspiring to be like Lance Armstrong. They all want to win races, make loads of money and be famous. They know it's a dog-eat-dog world. Apart from Contador, and a few close to Contador, they respect Armstrong and some do like him. Doping is not a crime to any of these guys; probably neither is embezzlement, tax evasion or collusion. Once he goes to prison of course then they'll drop him entirely and tell us that they never liked him in the first place.

Disrespecting the sport is a different matter, which is why I think it'll be suggested that he makes a glorious exit in the expected way with a stage win and then clear off. Cycling needs to regain its dignity and there is no dignity for the sport in a champion clinging on desperately and losing 4 minutes every day; someone needs to make it clear that he can have a stage win and then get in the bus and let the cameras follow the actual race.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I think if he did a mea culpa right now and came clean, and spent the next 3-5 years working on his image, he'd completely recover.

I don't think he's going to do that.

I'll totally be Lance's life coach. He'll have to pay me way more than he paid Mike Anderson, though. Lance, if you're listening, call me. I'll forget all about that thing at Gila...

It has always puzzled me why Armstrong hasn't gone down the A-Rod/McGwire route and done the 'tearful' interview with Oprah or someone like that. I am sure that such an interview with lots of mentions of cancer and how everyone else was doping and he was only doing it to keep up, I am sure that all the fanboys would still support him.

 

[python]

Now feltet.dk reports:

"... Alle indkaldte vidner vil kunne aflægge deres vidnesbyrd i fuld anonymitet ..."

which translates into

"... all subpoened witnesses will be able to give their testimony in full anonymity ..."

http://feltet.dk/index.php?id_parent=1&id=28&id_nyhed=26994

Did anybody hear about this? Maybe they misunderstood?

didn't one of the links about the subpoenas mentioned the grand jury wont be public ? if so i guess that's why a reference to anonymity.

but i have a general question, can someone explain the us law on grand jury ?

does it mean a subpoenaed witness wont be interviewed by the prosecutors/investigators prior to the commencement of a grand jury hearing ?

does the fact that a witness (like hamilton) agreeing to cooperate only if subpoenaed trying to limit the number of questions he/she will be asked and thus to a degree try to limit/impede the full investigation ?

 

[R.0.t.O]

It has always puzzled me why Armstrong hasn't gone down the A-Rod/McGwire route and done the 'tearful' interview with Oprah or someone like that. I am sure that such an interview with lots of mentions of cancer and how everyone else was doping and he was only doing it to keep up, I am sure that all the fanboys would still support him.

That's got to be the Armstrong nuclear-option. This happens as soon as there is no other way out and not a minute before. Bruyneel/Armstrong are a one-tactic team and as sure as the 'blue train until half-way up the last mountain' wasn't going to change then 'lie lie lie' isn't going to change.

 

[Benotti69]

Almost everyone in the pro peloton is, to some extent, aspiring to be like Lance Armstrong. They all want to win races, make loads of money and be famous. They know it's a dog-eat-dog world. Apart from Contador, and a few close to Contador, they respect Armstrong and some do like him. Doping is not a crime to any of these guys; probably neither is embezzlement, tax evasion or collusion. Once he goes to prison of course then they'll drop him entirely and tell us that they never liked him in the first place.

Disrespecting the sport is a different matter, which is why I think it'll be suggested that he makes a glorious exit in the expected way with a stage win and then clear off. Cycling needs to regain its dignity and there is no dignity for the sport in a champion clinging on desperately and losing 4 minutes every day; someone needs to make it clear that he can have a stage win and then get in the bus and let the cameras follow the actual race.

i am not sure everyone in the peleton wants to be like him, he's an idiot and a bully, lots yes, but the doping is not seen as a crime, is in the past, but for the older pros who feel they are being cheated and mistreated as this is the way is was and for ever shall be and just let them get on with it, the younger are more educated i feel.

I dont think LA/JB have seen the reality yet. I bet he's on the same program as always and couldn't believe what happened on sunday and they are still planning something. bet he was surprised yesterday as well that leipheimer went away and he couldn't hold the wheel. as i said this guys ego is huge, bigger than any hollywood star. just think back to 99, after 98 and his recent recovery from cancer, which is suspected from PED use, he goes fully juiced into the TdF....

 

[buckwheat]

Mencken

It has always puzzled me why Armstrong hasn't gone down the A-Rod/McGwire route and done the 'tearful' interview with Oprah or someone like that. I am sure that such an interview with lots of mentions of cancer and how everyone else was doping and he was only doing it to keep up, I am sure that all the fanboys would still support him.

Because Pharmstrong understood the fanatical devotion of his delusional fans and knew they weren't athletes themselves.

He also knows that no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

 

[Publicus]

didn't one of the links about the subpoenas mentioned the grand jury wont be public ? if so i guess that's why a reference to anonymity.

but i have a general question, can someone explain the us law on grand jury ?

does it mean a subpoenaed witness wont be interviewed by the prosecutors/investigators prior to the commencement of a grand jury hearing ?

does the fact that a witness (like hamilton) agreeing to cooperate only if subpoenaed trying to limit the number of questions he/she will be asked and thus to a degree try to limit/impede the full investigation ?

Not at all. There are no limits on the questions that the prosecutor can pose and a reluctant witness can be charged with obstruction of justice.

 

[gjdavis60]

I'm a long-time Lance-hater but yes, he should be allowed a stage win over the next fortnight. One of the reasons I dislike LA is the way that he's disrepected and make a mockery of cycling for his own ends - the correct way to deal with that is to rise above it and act with dignity. The new patron Cancellara, preferably along with mj Schleck and defending champ Contador, should go to Armstrong and arrange for him to win a transition stage this week - let him know that the sport will keep its dignity and traditions, but also that his time has gone and the sport is moved on without him.

Allow him a stage win? Are you serious?! The fact that this even sounds remotely possible is one of the reasons pro cycling is in such a sad state. If the peloton had a shred of integrity this is how Armstrong would be dealt with by his peers at every professional race he attempted to enter.

I hope this investigation beats pro cycling so far into the ground that they'll need oil drilling equipment to find sponsors. An all amateur Tour de France would be just fine by me.

 

[Anonymous]

It would be really interesting to know the current peloton opinion of armstrong. Are they all whispering behind his back, is it no surprise and they are just getting on with their business.

 

[kurtinsc]

What about those who have already given testimony against Lance (only in another context)? These people could surely be used now? Maybe even Lemond will get a call up? I'm sure he wont need to be asked twice lol ...

Lemond wouldn't need to be asked twice... but I don't think he knows much from first hand experience. He and Lance had very little professional overlap.

Guys like Hamilton and Hincapie actually would have the evidence. Lemond would just have suspicians. Don't get me wrong... he's probably right. But they wouldn't help with an investigation.

 

[oldschoolnik]

When you refuse to answer questions about someone related to the probe, you can go to jail for contempt of court. That is what happened to Barry Bonds trainer Greg Anderson.

Don't think Hincapie, Hamilton, Vaughters and others would willingly risk jail. Lance is going to need to coordinate all their actions to avoid them speaking out. Find it hard to believe he can do it.

"They don't refuse they just say " I don't recall" - none of these guys are under any pressure - they just say they didn't know the bikes were being sold - they didn't know what LA was doing in the room by himself. etc...

 

[fatandfast]

I can't wait to hear the prosecutor. "Well boss he's a big fish..this Armstrong guy. People are calling for his head" "I need to take me and my team to France to look around for 10 year old clues...I think I will need about 500000 euros or so""The people that can overturn his TDF results have already said they have no interest but I say we go there anyway""I am pretty sure that nobody has burned or thrown away anything..it's probably in the glove box of the blood bus". Once they start looking up Floyd's but_t with a microscope this thing is going to be a career ruining task for anybody. The public and their checkbook are not too keen on Roman Polanski,Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds 10's of million dollar dead horse beatdowns.

 

[Cerberus]

"They don't refuse they just say " I don't recall" - none of these guys are under any pressure - they just say they didn't know the bikes were being sold - they didn't know what LA was doing in the room by himself. etc...

"I don't recall" is not a perfect shield against perjury or obstruction charges. Some thing you don't forget and if someone else testifies you were there and you can't convince the Jury that such a minor detail slipped your mind then you're in trouble. Being or not being part of an organized team doping program is one of those things that doesn't slip your mind just like that.

 

[Cobblestones]

LA is respected in the bunch, no doubt about it. Whether it's correct or not, there is a feeling among riders that he has raised their profile and increased their wages. Whether he doped won't change that because everyone dopes and that's no big deal to the other riders; if he does go down for basically race-fixing (collusion and bribing the UCI) then that may be different but there's a way to go on that still.

I'm a long-time Lance-hater but yes, he should be allowed a stage win over the next fortnight. One of the reasons I dislike LA is the way that he's disrepected and make a mockery of cycling for his own ends - the correct way to deal with that is to rise above it and act with dignity. The new patron Cancellara, preferably along with mj Schleck and defending champ Contador, should go to Armstrong and arrange for him to win a transition stage this week - let him know that the sport will keep its dignity and traditions, but also that his time has gone and the sport is moved on without him.

The badger begs to differ:

pas de cadeaux

 

[Morgazano]

If LeMond claims he didn't know anything about doping when he was actually racing, why would he know so much more now? Doesn't make sense. A bit like his "Iron" injections...

 

[Publicus]

When you refuse to answer questions about someone related to the probe, you can go to jail for contempt of court. That is what happened to Barry Bonds trainer Greg Anderson.

Don't think Hincapie, Hamilton, Vaughters and others would willingly risk jail. Lance is going to need to coordinate all their actions to avoid them speaking out. Find it hard to believe he can do it.

Until a case is actually convened, refusing to answer questions is permitted, but it could expose one to obstruction of justice charges.

 

[Mainerider]

I can't wait to hear the prosecutor. "Well boss he's a big fish..this Armstrong guy. People are calling for his head" "I need to take me and my team to France to look around for 10 year old clues...I think I will need about 500000 euros or so""The people that can overturn his TDF results have already said they have no interest but I say we go there anyway""I am pretty sure that nobody has burned or thrown away anything..it's probably in the glove box of the blood bus". Once they start looking up Floyd's but_t with a microscope this thing is going to be a career ruining task for anybody. The public and their checkbook are not too keen on Roman Polanski,Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds 10's of million dollar dead horse beatdowns.

I'm afraid this is how this is going to play out. They'll need a lot more than "credible" testimony from known liars like Landis and Hamilton. I'm still waiting for the beef. I dislike Armstrong, but I'm not in favor of our government spending $50 million (rumored cost of BALCO) of taxpayer money on a witch hunt.