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Subpoenas issued -- Armstrong's goose is cooked

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Jul 13, 2010
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cyclestationgiuseppe said:
Yep and thank you!
:)

Why are you saying thank you? The article merely states the spend to donation ratio was off one year, back in 2005. They've always gotten most of their money from the merchandise stuff anyway, and since Armstrong came back that has gone through the roof. Tens of million for cancer causes!

Cancer sufferers have done extremely well out of it. It's just unfortunate that you're so full of hate that you don't care about that and want to bring down the charity with Armstrong - both of which probably won't happen.
 
Crashes and punctures said:
But...




"Doh!"

Not sure what the D'oh is about. It's called a subpoena duces tecum. What they are looking for are documents that establish how many bikes they gave to USPS/Discovery/Astana each year. It's part of building a case. Hard for Tailwind to claim that they received 10 bikes when Trek has records that they shipped 50 (numbers are arbitrary).

They are building a very methodical case, presumably to create leverage on the right people. This is going to get interesting.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Publicus said:
Not sure what the D'oh is about.

The doh is for not specifying that it was only for documents.

You can call it "building a case", or you can call it investigating the documents.

I don't see what they could do with this info. All the bikes are long gone anyway.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Why is it when the investigators just checkout some stuff we get this spiel about "building a very methodical case".

No, they are just checking stuff. It doesn't mean they are going to find anything at all in this area. They probably won't.

There aren't going to be "doping documents". The bad stuff will have to come in testimony and then they will have to convince the jury that this bad stuff - doping - equals "fraud".
 
Jul 13, 2010
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What do you want me to say?

Okay, this means they are closing in and about to discover the pile of super dope at Trek headquarters. It's all in the documents. We now know Armstrong will get life without parole for this.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Cobblestones said:
Points to the direction of the investigation. Always smart to follow the money. You bet that Trek will detail every single nut and bolt they gave away as part of their sponsorship deal. There won't be any 'I can't recall', or 'we lost count' because none of the TREK accountants is going to risk jailtime for that. Their defense is obviously 'we are shocked, shocked to find that doping is going on in here'.

If I'm so stupid, could you explain to me why that would matter? The bikes go to the team, then it's up to the team what they do with the bikes. I suppose the bikes are then all sold at some point.

There is going to be nothing in the Trek documents stating that the bikes were then sold by the team for dope.

You guys aren't thinking straight.
 
Apr 7, 2010
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Crashes and punctures said:
Why would they have to claim they only received a certain amount of bikes? They won't and don't.

do you know how money laundering works?

farmer says he took 50 tomatoes to the market to sell for $1 each

he comes home with $50

he actually only took 10 tomatoes to the market

the rest of the story is pretty easy to work out
 
Jul 13, 2010
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barn yard said:
do you know how money laundering works?

farmer says he took 50 tomatoes to the market to sell for $1 each

he comes home with $50

he actually only took 10 tomatoes to the market

the rest of the story is pretty easy to work out

Nope, still not right. The team (farmer) would buy all the bikes that they said they bought. Nothing changes there. It's what they did with the bikes (tomatoes) when they got home that is the issue. That has nothing to do with how many tomatoes trek took to the market.

The team, the farmer, will then say they either no longer have records of what happened to all the bikes, or they sold them on. But that doesn't prove what they used the money for. Do you see? And this has nothing to do with federal funds either.

This is a total dead end. Old Columbo is going to be chasing lance around for a long time if this is all he has.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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I am surprised no-one spotted who the Trek 'spokesman' is.

Bill Mashek of Public Strategies (Hey y'all) in Washington.

Do they not have PR firms in Wisconsin??

Is there a likelihood that Public Strategies could also get subpoenaed as they have been Lances PR team throughout his career?
 
Apr 7, 2010
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Crashes and punctures said:
Nope, still not right. The team (farmer) would buy all the bikes that they said they bought. Nothing changes there. It's what they did with the bikes (tomatoes) when they got home that is the issue. That has nothing to do with how many tomatoes trek took to the market.

The team, the farmer, will then say they either no longer have records of what happened to all the bikes, or they sold them on. But that doesn't prove what they used the money for. Do you see? And this has nothing to do with federal funds either.

This is a total dead end. Old Columbo is going to be chasing lance around for a long time if this is all he has.

i think you will find the example i gave works both ways

there will be discrepancies on the books

discrepancies often = tax evasion

you have not spent much time in accounting or auditing have you
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Mr.DNA said:

Most charities will actually show worse results than the LAF did in 2005 at that stage in the development of the charity. Lance and Co. did a great job in 2005/2006 turning the LAF into a true money machine for cancer. He has that going for him - not sure how well it will perform if he is in jail though.

For a more recent analysis of the LAF you can look at: http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/cancer/lance-armstrong-foundation-in-austin-tx-3996
 

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goober said:
Most charities will actually show worse results than the LAF did in 2005 at that stage in the development of the charity. Lance and Co. did a great job in 2005/2006 turning the LAF into a true money machine for cancer. He has that going for him - not sure how well it will perform if he is in jail though.

For a more recent analysis of the LAF you can look at: http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/cancer/lance-armstrong-foundation-in-austin-tx-3996

2005/2006? So the charity did better when he retired from the sport?

Here is Charity Navigators assesment for the same year you posted (FYE 2008).
I am not saying anything about the charity pre se, as Ulman does do great work - but the figures are slightly different to yours and the rating given appears less than other similar charities.
 
May 14, 2010
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enrecul said:
will omerta win out once again guys?

where does it go from here now? did i read somewhere that some current tour riders are cooperating also???

armo is right.....he should enjoy his last tour

Thoughtforfood said:
Omerta in cycling is not the same as omerta in organized crime because the dudes riding the bikes are not quite the caliber of criminal as are Fat Bobby and Gino. Federal subpoenas and Grand Juries will cause them to wet themselves.

Yep. Carrying on the traditional omerta within your sport is one thing - almost obligatory. Practicing perjury and contempt of court in front of feds and a grand jury - that's another thing entirely. Armstrong might be cold-blooded enough - sociopathic enough - to do that, but you can bet the long parade of witnesses they'll call before he sits down won't be. They'll start talking, every last one, before they reach the courthouse.

Thoughtforfood said:
6. Now what am I going to do in July?

Visit LA in Sing-Sing?

131313 said:
Well, some of them are. But mostly, they're just normal people. I try my best not to get miffed, but the thing that gets me is the constant question of "hey, are you doing that Tour de France thing?". As if it's like the local 10K and you just sign up or something??

That's now morphed to "hey, shouldn't you be in France right now?". I'll admit, it gets old.

I had a similar experience recently. Somebody at work asked me, "So do you think you'll ever enter the Tour de France? You should be over there. Do it before you get too old." "Well," I answered, "At 53 I may have missed the window." Jesus. Meanwhile I'm thinking, man, this person really doesn't have the first clue about TDF.

Parrot23 said:
Don't want to sound flippant, but now it's clear why Armstrong fell of his bike three times/was in three incidents yesterday. Once, okay, but three times??

He will have heard prob. in the prev. 1-2 days through his grapevine/lawyer of some of his own people or others who might have been subpoenaed already.

He must have been riding with that in his mind, cogitating on the grand jury, not the road.

That is exactly what I think, too.

TeamSkyFans said:
No hes not :D
25piknq.jpg

The woman thought it might be boardman initially because she'd heard of him, and settled on indurain because he sounded french. She didnt even consider lance armstrong as an answer.

Hey, that's the woman at my job!

BikeCentric said:
Jesse Ventura was also surprisingly well spoken and smart which was an amusing juxtaposition on a guy who looks like a meathead. For example, he was on Larry King Live about a year ago and he said: "torture doesn't work, I know from my Navy Seal training. Let me put it this way: you give me a waterboard, **** Cheney, and 5 minutes, and I'll get him to confess to the Sharon Tate murders."

Now that sounds like a great idea. Cheney makes a far better villain than Armstrong.