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Subpoenas issued -- Armstrong's goose is cooked

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Jun 19, 2009
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hfer07 said:
but none of the above were using PED's while having a "tax payer's sponsor"

BTW I'm really surprised how fast the investigation is moving ahead-I'm wondering if Landis started talking to the Feds in 09....

Exactly, dudes. These guys did what they did in an accepting, theatric environment and both admitted to it as a matter of honesty. Their success at politics came later. George W blundered into his payday and meant no harm to anyone when he was having a good time.
My point is Lance has been a profiteer on too many levels relying on an elaborate deceit that now appears to be unravelling. Politics and people know that distinction. I was responding to someone's posit on Lance's future political career.
 
woodburn said:
When you refuse to answer questions about someone related to the probe, you can go to jail for contempt of court. That is what happened to Barry Bonds trainer Greg Anderson.

Don't think Hincapie, Hamilton, Vaughters and others would willingly risk jail. Lance is going to need to coordinate all their actions to avoid them speaking out. Find it hard to believe he can do it.

You can bet that Lance's thugs will be hard at this, they have a history of intimidating the opposition. If I was Hamilton, Vaughters etc. I would be doing everything possible to record any contacts with Lance and his helpers - just in case.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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SaftyCyclist said:
Who's Armstrong going to try and implicate for his plea bargain, who's further up the chain, UCI, drug companies, Trek, Nike?

He could give up whoever planned and financed a fraudulent operation. Unfortunately those folks were his advisors and they'll flip before he does. This can be a Last Man Out kind of game with prosecutors as the biggest fish on the screen gets them the most points; kinda like Bassmasters.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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frenchfry said:
You can bet that Lance's thugs will be hard at this, they have a history of intimidating the opposition. If I was Hamilton, Vaughters etc. I would be doing everything possible to record any contacts with Lance and his helpers - just in case.

In the past the threat LA could use was Money and Omerta. Those tools are out of his hands. Novitsky has Contempt of Court, Expensive Legal Defense Attorney Fees for Defendants, Unlimited Grand Jury Budget, Congressional support and Perjury Jail Time in his tool kit. Much more compelling hardware than LA.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
2005/2006? So the charity did better when he retired from the sport?

Here is Charity Navigators assesment for the same year you posted (FYE 2008).
I am not saying anything about the charity pre se, as Ulman does do great work - but the figures are slightly different to yours and the rating given appears less than other similar charities.

The charity did better years after he retired from the sport. That is a fact but not sure there is a correlation between the two. The site rates LAF as "Exceeds or meets industry standards and performs as well as or better than most charities in its Cause.". Yes there are other charities that appear to be better by the ratings in the cause; but, they should also indicate cause and size of charity. NCC always has always been a great cancer charity. Not sure why the charity link ended up in this thread... Let's talk subpoenas
 
Oct 26, 2009
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erader said:
tockit said:
Unfortunately, you're exactly right.

This will be devastating for cycling and I'm sure won't be taken well by the cancer support community.

Like him or not, Lance is basically a household name.

In the end, if this goes down, the whole sporting world will suffer.......[/QUOTE]

we survived clemens and woods. we'll get over it.

ed rader

Absolutely. It will only be confirmation of what many people have believed for quite sometime.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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ManInFull said:
erader said:
Absolutely. It will only be confirmation of what many people have believed for quite sometime.

And for a time the group of gassed specialists that we admire will make less money. I'm more concerned about the passing motorist that yelled from his pickup truck this afternoon: "Hey ***! Lance is going to jail!" Who knew the public picked up on Sports Radio this fast.
 
Oct 26, 2009
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richwagmn said:
There's going to have to be more than just what people say I think. Landis has a tough row to hoe with his denials, etc as credible witness in court. Tyler too with his lame explanation of his doping.

Be interesting to see if any other riders crack under a federal subpoena. They'll need a Frankie or Vaughters I think.

I wonder if there are any smoking guns?

Clear-cut evidence would be nice. I just have a feeling that we may not get anything but lot of statements. However, if there are statements under oath by many people, it will be hard to ignore.
 
Oct 26, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
I see the speed at which this might be happening to mean that they have some clear take-downs. The haste at which it's happening suggest some of the *really* rotten apples will walk. The show will probably go on, Bio Passport as 'the answer', wildly uneven doping penalties, and worst of all, limited damage to the Armstrong myth.

I'd *love* to be wrong.

Well, you could be wrong. Think about how the case against Barry Bonds has gone. They still aren't getting anywhere with him. Of course, it's largely due to the fact that the key witness, who has known Bonds forever, will not rat on him and is in jail due to this fact.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Oldman said:
ManInFull said:
And for a time the group of gassed specialists that we admire will make less money. I'm more concerned about the passing motorist that yelled from his pickup truck this afternoon: "Hey ***! Lance is going to jail!" Who knew the public picked up on Sports Radio this fast.

You need to get rid of the USPS jersey and that Trek OCLV :).
 
May 26, 2010
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Uniballer could throw this all onto the Hog, Hog is from Belgium and been in cycling longer than LA and aint american and could be seen as the older man who took advantage of poor little LA who had just recovered from this terrible illness and promised him he could make him into a winner....if i was Hog i would be very quickly buying a place in outer siberia or spilling my guts to someone saying that LA was the boss and he was implementing his wishes, because sure a sh*t these 2 are not gonna remain united for long and we all know Mr SelfishStrong is always looking after no.1.....as LA has a lot of muscle behind him i imagine they are looking for someone to pin it all on and HoggyMan better watch his back........La will be definitely be damaged by all but it is how much he can put on Hog's plate is probably the strategy at this point in time....JB's dominance in cycling looks likely to have come to an abrupt end. I hope the french media got to town on ASO over all this as they should've done so much more about this in 1999 as it would have been obvious to those in cycling what was happening
 
Jun 21, 2009
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131313 said:
I don't think so. I think that a lot of guys in the euro peloton must be a little chaffed. Doping allegations are one thing; preferential treatment, fixing positives and donations to the UCI are quite another.

I bet a lot of guys are realizing that no, in fact, the playing field really wasn't as level as they thought. Some guys out there with some knowledge have to feel like they've been played.
the wierd thing is, lance still seems to be a popular man in the peloton, hushovd still holds him in high regard both on and off record (though he might have dug himself into a hole with the whole befriending lance and jumping on the anti cancer thing last year) and according to hushovd's coach a lot of the tour riders want LA to leave the TdF with a stage win to his name :confused:

Mr.DNA said:

they probably just love cancer at that charitywatch thingy
 
Aug 6, 2009
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ManInFull said:
Clear-cut evidence would be nice. I just have a feeling that we may not get anything but lot of statements. However, if there are statements under oath by many people, it will be hard to ignore.

Testimonies can be clear cut evidence. it's actually very hard to probberly coordinate false testimonies, so if a number of people get up and describe the same thing it's fairly clear cut.

It's also a matter of making statements against interest. You can sell the notion that Landis is lying because he's a bitter man, it could be true and he loses little by making up stories about Armstrong. Zabriskie, Hincapie or Vaughter among many others have nothing to gain and much to lose by admitting involvement. If any one of them do admit something it's IMO going to be very hard to cast doubt on their credibility. If all of them do LA's lawyers would have to sell the a jury the notion that 3 or more professionals decided to carefully conspire to endanger their own careers and legacies for no discernible reason except to get Armstrong. I think that's going to be more than a tough sell.

I realize of cause that you said that enough testimonies would be hard to dismiss, but I think you overestimate how many are needed. Just one credible testimony can carry a lot of weight and 2-3 is more or less iron clad unless the witnesses have a clear incentive to make up their testimonies, something that might be said about Landis, but not about most other potential witnesses.
 
workingclasshero said:
the wierd thing is, lance still seems to be a popular man in the peloton, hushovd still holds him in high regard both on and off record (though he might have dug himself into a hole with the whole befriending lance and jumping on the anti cancer thing last year) and according to hushovd's coach a lot of the tour riders want LA to leave the TdF with a stage win to his name :confused:

LA is respected in the bunch, no doubt about it. Whether it's correct or not, there is a feeling among riders that he has raised their profile and increased their wages. Whether he doped won't change that because everyone dopes and that's no big deal to the other riders; if he does go down for basically race-fixing (collusion and bribing the UCI) then that may be different but there's a way to go on that still.

I'm a long-time Lance-hater but yes, he should be allowed a stage win over the next fortnight. One of the reasons I dislike LA is the way that he's disrepected and make a mockery of cycling for his own ends - the correct way to deal with that is to rise above it and act with dignity. The new patron Cancellara, preferably along with mj Schleck and defending champ Contador, should go to Armstrong and arrange for him to win a transition stage this week - let him know that the sport will keep its dignity and traditions, but also that his time has gone and the sport is moved on without him.
 
Oldman said:
And for a time the group of gassed specialists that we admire will make less money. I'm more concerned about the passing motorist that yelled from his pickup truck this afternoon: "Hey ***! Lance is going to jail!" Who knew the public picked up on Sports Radio this fast.

That's actually pretty worrying given the number of mentalists with guns you have over there in America.
 
R.0.t.O said:
LA is respected in the bunch, no doubt about it. Whether it's correct or not, there is a feeling among riders that he has raised their profile and increased their wages. Whether he doped won't change that because everyone dopes and that's no big deal to the other riders; if he does go down for basically race-fixing (collusion and bribing the UCI) then that may be different but there's a way to go on that still.

I'm a long-time Lance-hater but yes, he should be allowed a stage win over the next fortnight. One of the reasons I dislike LA is the way that he's disrepected and make a mockery of cycling for his own ends - the correct way to deal with that is to rise above it and act with dignity. The new patron Cancellara, preferably along with mj Schleck and defending champ Contador, should go to Armstrong and arrange for him to win a transition stage this week - let him know that the sport will keep its dignity and traditions, but also that his time has gone and the sport is moved on without him.

Exactement. Top to bottom, it's all about the Armstrong Dollar. Hell, even Cycling News deliberately excludes some LA allegations for Radioshack advertising cash.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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What about those who have already given testimony against Lance (only in another context)? These people could surely be used now? Maybe even Lemond will get a call up? I'm sure he wont need to be asked twice lol ...
 
Aug 6, 2009
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R.0.t.O said:
LA is respected in the bunch, no doubt about it. Whether it's correct or not, there is a feeling among riders that he has raised their profile and increased their wages. Whether he doped won't change that because everyone dopes and that's no big deal to the other riders; if he does go down for basically race-fixing (collusion and bribing the UCI) then that may be different but there's a way to go on that still.

I'm a long-time Lance-hater but yes, he should be allowed a stage win over the next fortnight. One of the reasons I dislike LA is the way that he's disrepected and make a mockery of cycling for his own ends - the correct way to deal with that is to rise above it and act with dignity. The new patron Cancellara, preferably along with mj Schleck and defending champ Contador, should go to Armstrong and arrange for him to win a transition stage this week - let him know that the sport will keep its dignity and traditions, but also that his time has gone and the sport is moved on without him.

Being no longer a GC threat he should be allowed to try for a stage win, there's no reason to chase down a breakaway because Armstrong is in it, so if he can get into one and beat the other riders fair and square he's welcome to it. That doesn't mean the race should be fixed to give him one and even if Schleck, Contador and Cancellara all felt he should there's no way the stage hunting teams would agree. If he managed to keep up with Schleck and Contador on a climb they can give it to him if they want, though they're not obligated to. They don't have any right to or possibility of getting the entire peloton to agree though.