Success for Bike Pure?

[craig1985]

Riche Porte is a member of BP and came in 8th at the Giro. I know blackcat will have a field day with this, but does this mean it's possible to finish top 10 and be clean?

 

[Ferminal]

Membership to BP is kind of cancelled out by a contract with Saxo.

Not saying he's doping, just that he's a member of two groups which have conflicting approaches.

 

[pmcg76]

Take out the 12 minutes gained on the big breakaway and would he still be Top 10. He did ride an impressive race though for a neo-pro.

I think the hype about another BikePure rider Dan Martin is starting to fade, he rode poorly losing a heap of time in the first two weeks but went very well on Zoncolan and done well on the Plan de Cornes TT but then went back to being not so good. Placing 57th overall is hardly the perfromance of a rider on the Garmin A programme as Blackcat frequently points out.

 

[Ferminal]

Take out the 12 minutes gained on the big breakaway and would he still be Top 10. He did ride an impressive race though for a neo-pro.

He would drop 3 places, Pinotti, Cunego and Mollema and finish 10th.

 

[blackcat]

Take out the 12 minutes gained on the big breakaway and would he still be Top 10. He did ride an impressive race though for a neo-pro.

I think the hype about another BikePure rider Dan Martin is starting to fade, he rode poorly losing a heap of time in the first two weeks but went very well on Zoncolan and done well on the Plan de Cornes TT but then went back to being not so good. Placing 57th overall is hardly the perfromance of a rider on the Garmin A programme as Blackcat frequently points out.

good point pmcg.

I can tell you the reason why Martin finished a close second at Catalunya and only 57th in the Giro. You interested to know?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Philip Deignan is a BikePure rider and finished 9th in the Vuelta last year. Though he rode mostly a quiet race.

 

[Anonymous]

good point pmcg.

I can tell you the reason why Martin finished a close second at Catalunya and only 57th in the Giro. You interested to know?

I am.............

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Believe it or not, I'm not interested.

I'm aggravated at JV, CVV, Martin, and the whole direction Garmin seems to have gone. I was a big supporter of TIAA-Cref and talked with some of those kids at a race once. I even thought Slipstream was okay when JVV spoke out against doping and hired David Milar, but now, they all mostly seem to be just another team, only full of a lot of hot air and empty hopes.

Sorry if it seems like I'm venting on them. It's really late here, and I'm just expressing my disappointment.

 

[Anonymous]

Believe it or not, I'm not interested.

I'm aggravated at JV, CVV, Martin, and the whole direction Garmin seems to have gone. I was a big supporter of TIAA-Cref and talked with some of those kids at a race once. I even thought Slipstream was okay when JVV spoke out against doping and hired David Milar, but now, they all mostly seem to be just another team, only full of a lot of hot air and empty hopes.

Sorry if it seems like I'm venting on them. It's really late here, and I'm just expressing my disappointment.

I agree. I wanted to believe the hype JV was putting out, but it seems his desire to be successful has always given way to using whatever he needed to achieve that. I think he wants to do it the right way, but he will take it any way he can get it when it comes down to crunch time.

 

[Benotti69]

..
I think the hype about another BikePure rider Dan Martin is starting to fade, he rode poorly losing a heap of time in the first two weeks but went very well on Zoncolan and done well on the Plan de Cornes TT but then went back to being not so good. Placing 57th overall is hardly the perfromance of a rider on the Garmin A programme as Blackcat frequently points out.

sounds to me like a rider suffering due to racing every day without PEDs..... or maybe everyone is used to day after day success that they have forgotten what kind of toll a race like this can have on the body.....

the speeds of this years Giro were high and when you don't dope that is hard racing....

 

[bobbins]

Since when is wearing a blue bracelet a sign of being clean? There's plenty of bike pure supporters with dodgy histories. It's just a commercial enterprise that used the 'I support drug free sport' idea and is making money out of it.

 

[Fester]

Since when is wearing a blue bracelet a sign of being clean? There's plenty of bike pure supporters with dodgy histories. It's just a commercial enterprise that used the 'I support drug free sport' idea and is making money out of it.

Yes, there is nothing saying a doper can't be a liar and hypocrite also. I think Bike Pure acknowledge that. It's to be seen as an act of good faith, nothing more.

 

[craig1985]

good point pmcg.

I can tell you the reason why Martin finished a close second at Catalunya and only 57th in the Giro. You interested to know?

Because racing for three weeks is harder then a week long stage race and are a completely different kettle of fish (also the Giro course >>> Catalunya's course in terms of how hard it was)? Nah, impossible, wasn't on the doping program.

But if you were going to do it, wouldn't you do it the other way around? Cruise through Catalunya and then go for it at the Giro?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Because racing for three weeks is harder then a week long stage race and are a completely different kettle of fish (also the Giro course >>> Catalunya's course in terms of how hard it was)? Nah, impossible, wasn't on the doping program.

But if you were going to do it, wouldn't you do it the other way around? Cruise through Catalunya and then go for it at the Giro?

Exactly, you'd expect a clean rider to perform better in Catalunya than the Giro because recovery is less important and the competition is probably not as "well prepared". Nevermind that doping for the former but not the latter doesn't make much sense.

 

[Ferminal]

I wouldn't consider Dan Martin as part of the "Garmin A Team". Is he riding the Tour this year though?

If you're part of the A Team/Tour Squad then by definition, you can't perform at the Giro.

 

[Anonymous]

I think bikepure riders scraping top ten in grand tours just about sums up where the sport is at the moment. Improving, not as heavily doped as in the past, but you dont see bikepure riders driving groups up the mountains.

A good weekend a couple of weeks ago, Ben Swift winning in picardie, Russ Downing performing well there, and Lizzie Armitstead picking up a stage win the same weekend. Again, that shows just about where the bikepure riders are in terms of competativeness.

As for bikepure as an organisation, I will be at the tour series race on thursday, giving out wristbands and talking to young riders, and local amateurs about bikepure. I think at the top level of the sport bikepure is largely innefective. If a major rider such as cancellara, or wiggins, or boonen etc joined bikepure it would be greated with widespread cynacism. But at the lower ends of the sport I think it can spread a very positive message.

Riders are looking for ways of artificially improving performance from a local level upwards, its not just the pro's, theres temptation to perform at every level. Young riders coming through who dream of one day being in the pro tour need role models, and if there role models are at the top of the sport, we are in trouble. But if someone like Dean Downing, or Liam Holohan, or Dan Craven can win a domestic race on thursday wearing a bike pure band, it at least shows the young kids, who are maybe just starting out on the bike that they can be competative clean. I really wish someone line Kristian House would join BP.. If young riders coming through, or club level cyclists can see that you can be british champion clean, weve got a hope. Sure, if you want to win the tour de france you need to dope, but that isnt the ambition for most riders. If we can keep the youngesters clean, and keep domestic racing as clean as we can (which in britain with so many bikepure riders having sucess i think it is) then maybe its a start.

I dont want the young riders coming up to have heros like armstrong winning tours, or basso winning giros. Id much rather they looked up to guys like dean winning premier calender events, or Russ winning premier calender events and getting a shot on a pro tour team as a domestique.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I think bikepure riders scraping top ten in grand tours just about sums up where the sport is at the moment. Improving, not as heavily doped as in the past, but you dont see bikepure riders driving groups up the mountains.

A good weekend a couple of weeks ago, Ben Swift winning in picardie, Russ Downing performing well there, and Lizzie Armitstead picking up a stage win the same weekend. Again, that shows just about where the bikepure riders are in terms of competativeness.

As for bikepure as an organisation, I will be at the tour series race on thursday, giving out wristbands and talking to young riders, and local amateurs about bikepure. I think at the top level of the sport bikepure is largely innefective. If a major rider such as cancellara, or wiggins, or boonen etc joined bikepure it would be greated with widespread cynacism. But at the lower ends of the sport I think it can spread a very positive message.

Riders are looking for ways of artificially improving performance from a local level upwards, its not just the pro's, theres temptation to perform at every level. Young riders coming through who dream of one day being in the pro tour need role models, and if there role models are at the top of the sport, we are in trouble. But if someone like Dean Downing, or Liam Holohan, or Dan Craven can win a domestic race on thursday wearing a bike pure band, it at least shows the young kids, who are maybe just starting out on the bike that they can be competative clean. I really wish someone line Kristian House would join BP.. If young riders coming through, or club level cyclists can see that you can be british champion clean, weve got a hope. Sure, if you want to win the tour de france you need to dope, but that isnt the ambition for most riders. If we can keep the youngesters clean, and keep domestic racing as clean as we can (which in britain with so many bikepure riders having sucess i think it is) then maybe its a start.

I dont want the young riders coming up to have heros like armstrong winning tours, or basso winning giros. Id much rather they looked up to guys like dean winning premier calender events, or Russ winning premier calender events and getting a shot on a pro tour team as a domestique.

I really appreciate your efforts and strategy, but the problem is that you're up against a corporate culture of "impossible = nothing", the worship of celebrity leading to a narcissistic culture where frauds like Armstrong become "inspirations" where I think it will be increasingly hard to find riders happy to be an obscure hard worker on a pro cycling team.

Bike pure is a great idea. But if I was doping, and knew I wasn't doing anything that my peers weren't doing, I wouldn't hesitate to sign up. It's not cheating if you don't get caught, and it's a great smokescreen that enables you to divert attention and suspicion. (not as great as riding for cancer sufferers though) It might also make teams think I am a low risk rider, and I might get nice contracts offered. If I'm English speaking I'll make myself more popular with the kind of fans who listen seriously to Phil Liggett, and I might even get on the Garmin team one day....

Just politics that's all.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Philip Deignan is a BikePure rider and finished 9th in the Vuelta last year. Though he rode mostly a quiet race.

This is true; he also got that 9th position by being quiet and saving energy, sitting around 17th-18th overall, to the point where Séan Kelly was getting quite annoyed by him not getting into a break. Then he got into a break in the third week that gained 17 minutes on the field, and the riders whose top 10 places were being challenged were Danielson (who'd dropped out) and Cobo (who had the weakest team in the race), so they didn't do anything to limit the gains of the break.

Porte's race is similar only the other way round; he gained the time and then preserved it by riding a quiet race (always tailing in after the big guns but before the lower groups, the same way as Paolo Tiralongo was 7th in the Vuelta last year).

 

[Roland Rat]

I don't really get the point of Bike Pure. I mean, what do they do? Why should I buy a bikepure top or something? If it's just to make a statement, then meh. If the money is used for something positive, then I might consider it.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't really get the point of Bike Pure. I mean, what do they do? Why should I buy a bikepure top or something? If it's just to make a statement, then meh. If the money is used for something positive, then I might consider it.

its partly about promoting the idea of a drug free sport.

pro riders acting as role models for younger riders etc coming through, which like i say, is more effective on a national/local level with the likes of Russ/Dean Downing being role models to young british riders

and putting forward their cyclesport 2.0 proposals to the uci, wada and teams etc.

Personally i dont feel the need to buy a top etc. You can donate a small amount and wear a wristband which i think is more powerful. Its just about saying i want to be part of a clean sport, and hoping that as more young riders sign up, and the proposals are put forward something can be done. Will it be effective, who knows, but its better to try and fail than not to try at all.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think bikepure riders scraping top ten in grand tours just about sums up where the sport is at the moment. Improving, not as heavily doped as in the past, but you dont see bikepure riders driving groups up the mountains.

...

Good effort. At least there is some hope.

I wonder about the impact on the Bike Pure Organization if one of its riders tested positive?

Which is the highest profile rider that Bike Pure has?

 

[Anonymous]

Good effort. At least there is some hope.

I wonder about the impact on the Bike Pure Organization if one of its riders tested positive?

Which is the highest profile rider that Bike Pure has?

highest profile, probably the meyer/bobridge combination at garmin if you are aussie, Nicolas roche at ag2r

as far as women go, Marianne vos, Lizzy armitstead.

A bikepure positive? I think on one hand BP are very careful about who they allow to be role models for the organisation. I think the key is in the riders pledge. "The pledge not to cheat, is not between the rider and Bike Pure – but between rider and his friends, family, fans and team mates"
On one hand plausible deniability from bikepure? or that the rider has physically said to his fans freinds and family, I will not dope.

I guess bikepures defence would be, he/she lied to us, his freinds, his family, and his fans, we are very dissapointed im him/her

the cyclesport 2.0 draft is actually very full of good ideas, and much of what people suggest here, also worth noting that they are very open to communication and suggestions for the proposal.

As far as the whole premise goes, and showing faith in bikepure riders, i think we have to. If we cant even have faith in riders who have declared to freinds, family and fans that they will ride clean the sport really is fcuked. If your cynacism extends to beleiving BP riders such as roche, deignan etc are doping then you really do need to find another sport. (im just waiting for blackcat to say that roche isnt full on doping, just microdosing)

 

[Roninho]

Riche Porte is a member of BP and came in 8th at the Giro. I know blackcat will have a field day with this, but does this mean it's possible to finish top 10 and be clean?

Moncoutie finished 8th overall in the vuelta of 2008. So imo yes.

 

[blackcat]

I am.............

Because racing for three weeks is harder then a week long stage race and are a completely different kettle of fish (also the Giro course >>> Catalunya's course in terms of how hard it was)? Nah, impossible, wasn't on the doping program.

But if you were going to do it, wouldn't you do it the other way around? Cruise through Catalunya and then go for it at the Giro?

Martin =/= clean imo. Come on, father ex-pro, uncle Roche, cousin Nicolas Roche. He was the strongest rider in an u23 Worlds in 2008. No way, you come 2nd in Catalunya GC on bread and water. Now, he perhaps is doing his recovery therapy, and not much boosting.

 

[Reverend_T_Preedy]

The problem with Bikepure and why, for instance, Team Sky haven't signed up as a team is because UK Sport have a programme called 100%ME which provides information and encourages athletes to perform drug free. British Cycling have taken this on board and it is an important message in youth cycling. On this basis, the bikepure message doesn't really mean much to most elite British Cyclists as they are already adhering to this policy and anti-doping message. Indeed, the academy often ride in the UK under the team name of 100%ME.

I am all for Bikepure if it helps to drill home the message but all in all I can't help but think it just does what 100%ME is doing but they sell various stuff with the branding on.