Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Extinction]

X calculations are not calculations, they just took screenshots of the big 3 at the same point at the foot of the climb (it was after 6.5 kms approximately) and there pogacar was down more than 30 sec from remco and 27 from vingegaard, then from that point to the intermediate (in that part there was the climb, a very short descent and then another short part going uphill) pogacar took 3 seconds on evenepoel and 8 on vingeggard.
"Pogacar can't be on Jorgenson's climb times. That's a very bad time for him" . Jorgenson was better than remco and vingegaard in that portion of the TT

A TT is all about choices in how you pace yourself amongst the favorites. Tadej banked on gaining time uphill, Vingegaard went on constancy, Evenepole on getting to the intermediate time check with the biggest possible margine and then steady as she goes. Aerodynamics with power on the flats paid dividends for Remco. Jorgenson was great on the climb. But, attention, it all means little or nothing for the mountains to come.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar says he rode the first section too conservatively. But in this case he should've demolished the climb and the last section.

 

[theyoungest]

X's calculations appear to have been incorrect. Pogacar has uploaded the climb time to Strava, and it doesn't good.
Same as Jorgenson, so I assume Vingegaard and Remco must have done better.

Pogacar can't be on Jorgenson's climb times. That's a very bad time for him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932857802453553384

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1932857802453553384

The calculation probably isn't incorrect, Pogacar can definitely have the same time on the climb as Jorgenson. But it also shows how relatively meaningless this is. If you take only the climb where he is a few seconds faster than Remco and Jonas and ignore the rest of the course where he is significantly slower.

 

[Cycling111]

Pogacar says he rode the first section too conservatively. But in this case he should've demolished the climb and the last section.

He climbed at Jorgenson's level, which means he was far below his level.

That explanation is almost more worrying .

 

[Extinction]

He climbed at Jorgenson's level, which means he was far below his level.

That explanation is almost more worrying .

The level is relative. Last year Pog was in an annus mirabilis, but you can't expect that always, which would also be boring. He'll be good in the Tour. Jorgenson is just super right now, as his talent merits.

 

[Cycling111]

The level is relative. Last year Pog was in an annus mirabilis, but you can't expect that always, which would also be boring. He'll be good in the Tour. Jorgenson is just super right now, as his talent merits.

It's one thing not to be at the same level as last year, and another to be at the level of Jorgenson and Lipowitz.

Pogacar should´ve finished third, at least, and far superior to fourth. Not having done so is a bad performance.

 

[theyoungest]

It's one thing not to be at the same level as last year, and another to be at the level of Jorgenson and Lipowitz.

Pogacar should´ve finished third, at least, and far superior to fourth. Not having done so is a bad performance.

Yes, it wasn't a great TT for Pogi. I think everyone agrees on this so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[Extinction]

It's one thing not to be at the same level as last year, and another to be at the level of Jorgenson and Lipowitz.

Pogacar should´ve finished third, at least, and far superior to fourth. Not having done so is a bad performance.

You keep harping on Jorgenson and Lipowitz. Are they not extremely talented professionals? Do they not have the right to crush it on the day? Calm down, Pog was good, but not great. Yet the Tour is another beast. The mountains anyway, as Vingo said, given that we have junior length TTs nowadays, shall be decisive. So there is yet hope.

 

[rafa92]

It's one thing not to be at the same level as last year, and another to be at the level of Jorgenson and Lipowitz.

Pogacar should´ve finished third, at least, and far superior to fourth. Not having done so is a bad performance.

of course it's a very bad performance for him, we will see in the next days if it's a TT issue or a form issue

 

[rafa92]

You keep harping on Jorgenson and Lipowitz. Are they not extremely talented professionals? Do they not have the right to crush it on the day? Calm down, Pog was good, but not great. Yet the Tour is another beast. The mountains anyway, as Vingo said, given that we have junior length TTs nowadays, shall be decisive. So there is yet hope.

ofc they are talented professionals, but there are levels to these, if pog is on their level on the day it means his performance was bad

 

[Cycling111]

Of course I insist on Lipowitz and Jorgenson.

Pogacar, not being at his 2024 level, could finish third by losing time.

Losing to Jorgenson and being tied with Lipowitz is a very bad result for him.
That's not not being at the level of 2024, that's being bad.

While appreciating Jorgenson and Lipowitz, we also can't dismiss Pogacar and say it's no surprise he's at Lipowitz's level. That's dismissive, dismissive with Pogacar.

By the way, Van der Poel being only 22 seconds behind Pogacar in a time trial with a climb is also a bad symptom for Pogacar. And this isn't to disparage Van der Poel.

When so many riders inferior to him are so close, it means Pogacar has done poorly, not just that the others have done well.

When a rider of that level does poorly, it's noticeable when inferior riders are above or equal to him.
If Remco and Vingegaard had simply beaten him, the conclusion might be different. But when Pogacar wasn't even superior to inferior riders, the conclusion is that Pogacar was indeed doing poorly.

 

[hayneplane]

Bad performance but very curious about the difference in the sections as it appears the climb was good.

Presume the ITT on Peyragudes will be done full on road bikes which is just as well.

Friday will tell a bit on the overall form and if the altitude adjustment has improved but there will be nowhere for anyone to hide on Saturdays stage.

 

[Lequack]

What was wrong with the bike though? The whole thing looked unstable as hell.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932813912778371303

View: https://x.com/festinaboy/status/1932813912778371303

 

[Cycling111]

Bad performance but very curious about the difference in the sections as it appears the climb was good.

Presume the ITT on Peyragudes will be done full on road bikes which is just as well.

Friday will tell a bit on the overall form and if the altitude adjustment has improved but there will be nowhere for anyone to hide on Saturdays stage.

Pogacar's climb was worse than Lenny's.
For me, that's a bad climb for Pogacar.

When was the last time four riders climbed better than Pogacar? Col de la Loze, which was catastrophic for him.

 

[bNator]

Welcome to the Dauphine, where real top riders have their worst race of the season, because the Tour is next month, and to quote the greatest chess player of all time

"Chat, I literally don't care".

Did everyone seriously forget the Slovenian nationals ITT in 2021?

Believing Hikaru is GOAT puts your Roglic preference into a different perspective😁

 

[Miha81]

Pogacar's climb was worse than Lenny's.
For me, that's a bad climb for Pogacar.

When was the last time four riders climbed better than Pogacar? Col de la Loze, which was catastrophic for him.

According to this site only Remco climbed faster. Bad performance anyway.

Race Analysis : Critérium du Dauphiné - Watts2Win

The ultimate database of cycling performance

watts2win.eu

 

[Muren]

According to Strava Jorgenson and Pog lost around 25s to Remco on the section before the climb! 25s in just over 6k.

Aerobullet crushed the headwind!

It's clear that Pog is lacking some form.

 

[Lorzenz08]

I think Pogi was pissed and wanted to throw the bike away at the end..

The fact he didnt want to do an interview is because he probably cant find a good explanation. Maybe not even "bad day" since maybe he felt like he had good legs.
I think he probably yelled at some people in team afterwards for making him ride on such a rubbish bike

 

[scribers]

They keep putting him on weird equipment and it’s not translating to improvements

 

[jmdirt]

Of course I insist on Lipowitz and Jorgenson.

Pogacar, not being at his 2024 level, could finish third by losing time.

Losing to Jorgenson and being tied with Lipowitz is a very bad result for him.
That's not not being at the level of 2024, that's being bad.

While appreciating Jorgenson and Lipowitz, we also can't dismiss Pogacar and say it's no surprise he's at Lipowitz's level. That's dismissive, dismissive with Pogacar.

By the way, Van der Poel being only 22 seconds behind Pogacar in a time trial with a climb is also a bad symptom for Pogacar. And this isn't to disparage Van der Poel.

When so many riders inferior to him are so close, it means Pogacar has done poorly, not just that the others have done well.

When a rider of that level does poorly, it's noticeable when inferior riders are above or equal to him.
If Remco and Vingegaard had simply beaten him, the conclusion might be different. But when Pogacar wasn't even superior to inferior riders, the conclusion is that Pogacar was indeed doing poorly.

If the times are real, JV is in trouble too because MJ was faster than him up the climb!

 

[Lequack]

 

[Lorzenz08]

The TT was clearly an important day for Pogi and the team since even before the start of the Dauphine in the interview he emphasised on "how will he feel in the TT and if needed to train 1 more day specifically...".

So for sure there will be some discussions in the team

 

[Lorzenz08]

He has 3 weeks to understand and fix the issue.

This is also one of the challenge with having a full classic season. You better have a perfect lead up to the TdF, because not much time to mess around

 

[Lorzenz08]

Today was a MISSION FAILURE for the POGGENHEIMER. The competitors are lucky

 

[Shortcut]

I still don't know how do you expect Pogacar being in best shape possible through TdF-Vuelta- WC- Lombardia?? And than also being in great shape one month before TdF? The same thing in Spring from UAE tour-LBL? He knows how to get better and what his goals are and he showed that already many times (he won Emilia just 1 time but Lombardia 4!) Than looking totally different in Canada classics last year and than perfect after that in Zürich... He lost 18 seconds against Tarling on flat TT this year (12km) and was flying one month later on Cipressa, so i am not concerned at all. This is only race this year where he can "afford" losing against Remco/Jonas.