Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Pogacar: "So I had to let my fists do the talking..."

"I was inspired by what Red Rick did after Froome won the Giro"

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

I've shared my view on this before. First of all, he didn't dominate juniors or U23. He won L'Avenir with a normal/modest gap over Arensman, who was over a year younger, without even winning a stage. Big talent but nothing really out of the ordinary, especially after Bernal.

Actually he was regarded as pretty much a sure thing when he passed pro.

He won Avenir in convincing fashion, and was the second youngest rider in the top 10. Arensman was the outlier, not the standard. Pogacar won it at 19, a bit under a month before turning 20. Which possibly makes him the third youngest winner of it, french wikipedia only has the 2 youngest, Baronchelli and Gaudu. Gaudu who was born 19 days later in the year than Pogacar. Bernal for comparison is born 8 months earlier.

As for his normal/modest gap, it's the biggest since Quintana in 2010.

So that already was very much out of the ordinary, Add that his edition was regarded as rather strong at the time (now looks crazy strong, but that's in retrospect, at the time with Sosa dominating Burgos, Vlasov, Almeida from the Baby Giro, McNulty I think rated rather highly too, just looked strong)

So his Tour de l'Avenir win, combined with his 2 excellent Tours of Slovenia, 5th and 4th (5th at 18 years and 9 months, others are still juniors at this age) made him special when he passed pro.

He didn't dominate the Juniors? Nobody does except Evenepoel really. And especially GT riders/climbers really don't, Junior results have never been a good indicator for success in GTs. And let's not forget that Pogacar was born in September, not in January.

He was a sure thing. Like Bernal. But of course not every sure thing pans out, see Sosa and Sivakov. Too many... yes, strange times (add Ayuso too now), but before that the last sure thing was Quintana, before that we go back to Ullrich, Franck Vandenbroucke and Santi Blanco. Cycling simply has gone crazy the last few years. Of course nobody in his right mind thought he would finish third in his first GT then win the Tour twice, while winning 2 monuments and being second in Flanders, plus one of the strongest in MIlano-Sanremo. In 3.5 years as a pro. But he wasn't just one of many, he was regarded as special from the start.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Such injury is not all that optimal. Will take a couple of days to heal properly.

Get well soon!

 

[Cookster15]

Actually he was regarded as pretty much a sure thing when he passed pro.

He won Avenir in convincing fashion, and was the second youngest rider in the top 10. Arensman was the outlier, not the standard. Pogacar won it at 19, a bit under a month before turning 20. Which possibly makes him the third youngest winner of it, french wikipedia only has the 2 youngest, Baronchelli and Gaudu. Gaudu who was born 19 days later in the year than Pogacar. Bernal for comparison is born 8 months earlier.

As for his normal/modest gap, it's the biggest since Quintana in 2010.

So that already was very much out of the ordinary, Add that his edition was regarded as rather strong at the time (now looks crazy strong, but that's in retrospect, at the time with Sosa dominating Burgos, Vlasov, Almeida from the Baby Giro, McNulty I think rated rather highly too, just looked strong)

So his Tour de l'Avenir win, combined with his 2 excellent Tours of Slovenia, 5th and 4th (5th at 18 years and 9 months, others are still juniors at this age) made him special when he passed pro.

He didn't dominate the Juniors? Nobody does except Evenepoel really. And especially GT riders/climbers really don't, Junior results have never been a good indicator for success in GTs. And let's not forget that Pogacar was born in September, not in January.

He was a sure thing. Like Bernal. But of course not every sure thing pans out, see Sosa and Sivakov. Too many... yes, strange times (add Ayuso too now), but before that the last sure thing was Quintana, before that we go back to Ullrich, Franck Vandenbroucke and Santi Blanco. Cycling simply has gone crazy the last few years. Of course nobody in his right mind thought he would finish third in his first GT then win the Tour twice, while winning 2 monuments and being second in Flanders, plus one of the strongest in MIlano-Sanremo. In 3.5 years as a pro. But he wasn't just one of many, he was regarded as special from the start.

Worth mentioning the 2019 ToC which I think was more impressive than Avenir. This was when I first noticed him. I could barely believe his age.

 

[hayneplane]

The sure thing stuff - he was certainly seen as a sure thing to be a GC podium contender in the future but I don’t think anyone could honestly have foreseen him being in a position to be a 3 time Tour de France champion at an age younger than Merckx even rode his first Tour. Nor that he would be so devastatingly strong on all terrain including the cobbles of Flanders.

Having just looked back at the final GC of every L’Avenir of the 21st century the edition Pogacar won stacks up strongest in terms of the future success of the Top 10 on GC with Mader and Almeida already having top 5 Grand Tour finishes, Foss a top 10 and Vlasov a near certainty to top 5 soon.

The intriguing name on the top 10 is Michel Ries of Luxembourg who has 2 top 10 finishes in L’Avenir yet I honestly know nothing about him (looking up he has a couple of top 10 one day races in mountainous courses so maybe if he gets chances to ride for himself in harder routes he could become a slow burn success)

Vingegaard was 67th in the edition won by Pogacar even though already at least 2 years older.

 

[ppanther92]

Bit worrying that his team is again beyond useless. Whats Hirschi even doing there? But also the rest nowhere to be seen when it mattered. He is probably strong enough anyway but a bit weak from UAE that they do not bring a useful team the 3rd year in a row.

 

[skippo12]

Bit worrying that his team is again beyond useless. Whats Hirschi even doing there? But also the rest nowhere to be seen when it mattered. He is probably strong enough anyway but a bit weak from UAE that they do not bring a useful team the 3rd year in a row.

Really wonder where all the money is disappearing. Budget shouldn´t be a problem but they have to ask themself if a team like UAE really needs two high end (based on reputation not results this year) sprinters like Ackermann and Gaviria. Why they have no experienced guy with a big motor for the flat stages (even Trentin was a bad pick for that role). Why riders like Bennett or Soler look like shadows of their former selfs.

 

[scapewalker]

Bit worrying that his team is again beyond useless. Whats Hirschi even doing there? But also the rest nowhere to be seen when it mattered. He is probably strong enough anyway but a bit weak from UAE that they do not bring a useful team the 3rd year in a row.

What's even more worrying is how they somehow regressed even compared to 2021 at least.

I'll give them the benifit of the doubt though until the first stage in the alpes.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Really wonder where all the money is disappearing. Budget shouldn´t be a problem but they have to ask themself if a team like UAE really needs two high end (based on reputation not results this year) sprinters like Ackermann and Gaviria. Why they have no experienced guy with a big motor for the flat stages (even Trentin was a bad pick for that role). Why riders like Bennett or Soler look like shadows of their former selfs.

Don't forget that they also signed Hodeg, while alsso keeping around Trentin.
Yeah, Bjerg getting dropped on the flat/rolling terrain today and looking like he was really suffering is probably not a great sign for tomorrow.
I expected them to try to develop Rui Oliveira or Bjerg into their big engine for the flat stages, but that hasn't happened. At this stage an old Richeze is probably their best option for this role alongside Trentin...

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Bit worrying that his team is again beyond useless. Whats Hirschi even doing there? But also the rest nowhere to be seen when it mattered. He is probably strong enough anyway but a bit weak from UAE that they do not bring a useful team the 3rd year in a row.

Hirschi was drafted in when Trentin got virus.

Maybe they seem weak at the moment, but important to remember that UAE was running circles around the Peloton in the early season winning everything. And look how strong was Majka in slovenia

 

[Krzysztof_O]

they should make Almeida his diesel super dom. Then again does Teddy need a team? After all he produces enough power for a city.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Hirschi got his knee hurt in a fall. Mikkel is sick.

But still, I fear tomorrows stage a lot

i hope the team directors gave the team a good preach tonight. They are nowhere to be seen. Mcnulty, soler and Bennett were in the first group. Will they be the ones who pull him on the cobbles

 

[CyclistAbi]

In my opinion if you have Almeida sitting at home on a couch. Then you need to learn it the hard way.

Team matters.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Yesterday was like Col de la Schlucht in the first week of 2005‘s TdF. Lance followed T-Mobile easily, and all his team got dropped.

It could be the same with UAE. I think the team will be strong when Pog will need them.

If I‘m wrong, and the team won‘t improve, Pogi could have a problem, because JV and Ineos are strong. Then JV and Ineos would notice the weakness of UAE, and immediately try to drop Pogi whenever possible.

Pogi doesn‘t need the best team, because he is so strong. But without a team, he won‘t win this TdF. Because then all peloton will want to make him lose.

 

[hayneplane]

Pogacar was looking round at times almost shaking his head in disbelief at his team being totally MIA. Bjerg looks not to have properly recovered strength after a bout of covid and Hirschi and McNulty should have been right there yesterday but failed.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I'm sure Bennett and Majka will give him decent support in the high mountains. Not sure he needs it, mind.

 

[Kwibus]

Support in the mountains will be fine, but he really needs proper strong men to support him as well. If he had a team like Ineos or Jumbo it would be an 'easy' TdF win for him.
Might still be easy for him in the end, but the last days he had to do a lot of work himself. I'm not too worried about Poga though

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Pogacar was looking round at times almost shaking his head in disbelief at his team being totally MIA. Bjerg looks not to have properly recovered strength after a bout of covid and Hirschi and McNulty should have been right there yesterday but failed.

Mcnulty was near Pogi at the finish, but he was the only one. Bennett and Soler at the end of the group.
Ineos apparently have people on all the cobble sections.

Tadej is strong but there is just so much he can do…

 

[hayneplane]

Mcnulty was near Pogi at the finish, but he was the only one. Bennett and Soler at the end of the group.
Ineos apparently have people on all the cobble sections.

Tadej is strong but there is just so much he can do…

At the finish yes but he was awol until after the climb and initial downhill

 

[Extinction]

Pogacar with Steuven were going slow in the end. They were down to 36 sec from break at one point, then finished at 51. Meanwhile Vingegaard was over a minute down to Pogacar, but then finished only 13 secs back. I saw a Pogacar tired and suffering in the end, even though he gained time on rivals, but only due to flats or crashes.

 

[roundabout]

No, he gained time because he could get away with Stuyven

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Support in the mountains will be fine, but he really needs proper strong men to support him as well. If he had a team like Ineos or Jumbo it would be an 'easy' TdF win for him.
Might still be easy for him in the end, but the last days he had to do a lot of work himself. I'm not too worried about Poga though

Well, with TJV nothing is ever easy (as we saw today, yet again).
Pogi can probably count himself lucky not to be on TJV. And not on a team with GT.

 

[Blobs]

No, he gained time because he could get away with Stuyven

Sure but if Jumbo hadn't spent so much energy bringing Vingegaard back, they would have caught them.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar with Steuven were going slow in the end. They were down to 36 sec from break at one point, then finished at 51. Meanwhile Vingegaard was over a minute down to Pogacar, but then finished only 13 secs back. I saw a Pogacar tired and suffering in the end, even though he gained time on rivals, but only due to flats or crashes.

The stage was 10 km too long for them it seems. But your last sentence is not true. During most difficult cobble sections Pog and Stuyven were strongest and fastest of them all (including JV collective efforts).

 

[Kwibus]

Well, with TJV nothing is ever easy (as we saw today, yet again).
Pogi can probably count himself lucky not to be on TJV. And not on a team with GT.

If Pogacar had the flat Vingegaard had or crashed like Rogla he would've been minutes down, because he has no team. Vingegaard and Roglic are lucky to have a team at least.

I guess you are just kidding because of the bad luck Jumbo often has just like Thomas.