Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[ppanther92]

He might need a better coach!

He should go to INEOS. Thomas is 36, Bernal was seriously injured, the rest are not serious GC contenders. They had the best support and improvements in riders before JV transformed. UAE is fully living on the talent of individual riders. They never have this team-wow-moments, like JV or INEOS (up until the Tour also Bahrain). So that might be his best bet. Taking Millan with him shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

[sir fly]

He might need a better coach!

Less freedom in the schedule.

 

[ppanther92]

Tbf, none of the first three ever convinced me. Dumoulin struggled to win any gt's, Bernal got super lucky in 2019 and my doubts about Roglic as a top tier gc contender are well recorded.

That said, I absolutely didn't think Pogacar would be dethroned this quickly. Especially as he was arguably at least as strong as last year.

About Roglic I also was never sure. But Bernal, especially due to his age at the Tour win seemed like a very good bet to me.

 

[Ripper]

Also this year's Tour has been the worse possible comibation for him as far as the weather goes. A 3 week constant heatwave.

Better to race the Giro?

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

1st place Pogi was the rider I disliked the most. 2nd place Pogi is now my favourite rider.

I'm all in on Pog's team now. Dance for rain on the 2023 edition.

 

[Gigs_98]

The outcome of this Tour must be a disappointment for Pog but man, what a champion he is. This was far and beyond the best Tour in ages and it was largely due to him. He might not have won the race but certainly the hearts of many fans. I at least know for whom I'm gonna root the next decade.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

In regard to Dumoulin, 2nd/2nd is a pretty amazing Tour/Giro double IMO, and it took a Froome miracle to prevent him going 1/2. Froome of course did 1st/3rd that year, which is a better result though same average placement.
Contador went 1st/5th I think.
Quintana 2nd/12th in 2017

I understand your not being sold, but to me that was a strong signal that the torch was being past. Of course, I was wrong and you were right to be skeptical.

 

[Ripper]

I don't mind if he doesnt dominate, I just hope he stays like he is, attacks a lot and exciting. I hope he doesn't see that he has to conserve his energy from now .

But winning a GT and attacking all the time often don't go hand in hand. So he may need to choose.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

The outcome of this Tour must be a disappointment for Pog but man, what a champion he is. This was far and beyond the best Tour in ages and it was largely due to him. He might not have won the race but certainly the hearts of many fans. I at least know for whom I'm gonna root the next decade.

Yeah, I am still a Roglic fan and will cheer for him, but Pogacar certainly won me over. Attacking spirit, winning attitude, absolute class on and off the bike. Heart of a champion for sure, and not in the ruthless, walk-over-dead-bodies way that Lance was, but in the heroic way.

 

[ppanther92]

1st place Pogi was the rider I disliked the most. 2nd place Pogi is now my favourite rider.

I'm all in on Pog's team now. Dance for rain on the 2023 edition.

Sounds very irrational.

I am feeling totally the same

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

But winning a GT and attacking all the time often don't go hand in hand. So he may need to choose.

We're back to Contador and Froome sitting on his shoulders...

 

[limak_]

The outcome of this Tour must be a disappointment for Pog but man, what a champion he is. This was far and beyond the best Tour in ages and it was largely due to him. He might not have won the race but certainly the hearts of many fans. I at least know for whom I'm gonna root the next decade.

Exactly. Who would've thought before the Tour that in the Pogi vs Jumbo rider duel, everyone is gonna cheer for Tadej, especially having 2020 in mind

 

[Gigs_98]

In regard to Dumoulin, 2nd/2nd is a pretty amazing Tour/Giro double IMO, and it took a Froome miracle to prevent him going 1/2. Froome of course did 1st/3rd that year, which is a better result though same average placement.
Contador went 1st/5th I think.
Quintana 2nd/12th in 2017

I understand your not being sold, but to me that was a strong signal that the torch was being past. Of course, I was wrong and you were right to be skeptical.

I agree and I certainly considered Dumoulin becoming a serial Tour winner, but he just never had an invincible aura around him.

Before it took a miracle for froome to win the giro it took an unprecedented blow up from yates for Dumoulin to even be in contention. And at the Tour he lost to Thomas who everyone saw as a meh Tour winner. He never made the kind of performance that made me think, he'll dominate gt's for years if he can just perform like this regularly.

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

But winning a GT and attacking all the time often don't go hand in hand. So he may need to choose.

This may be the worst outcome of this race, which was largely made as good as it was by Pog's all out attacks. But if he feels he has to ride conservatively in the climbs and try to win it on bonus seconds/TT he might have to become a very different kind of rider.

Hopefully he isn't capable of resisting his attacking urges.

 

[gunara]

If Pog can win his detractors over after losing and suffering heroically, imagine what he can do by losing and suffering like a hero to people who have already liked him.


We like him even more, of course

 

[Escarabajo]

Pogacar dethroning this year could have been his own doing. Nothing against Vingegaard who deserved the crown for this year. But Pogacar with better coaching, better team, better schedule and not being so over confident the race would be a lot closer. Maybe being decided in the TT.

 

[Blobs]

Pogacar dethroning this year could have been his own doing. Nothing against Vingegaard who deserved the crown for this year. But Pogacar with better coaching, team, better schedule and not being so over confident the race would be a lot closer. Maybe being decided in the TT.

Agreed. He may have to ride a more conservative spring. Also, it was a big mistake to respond to all Roglic's attacks on the Granon stage. He would have lost a lot less time there, riding more conservatively. His youthful overconfidence from never having faced adversity in his career, likely died in this Tour.

 

[Salvarani]

Pogacar dethroning this year could have been his own doing. Nothing against Vingegaard who deserved the crown for this year. But Pogacar with better coaching, better team, better schedule and not being so over confident the race would be a lot closer. Maybe being decided in the TT.

All in all, I think he will learn a lot from this experience.

He has never not been on the podium so far in GTs. Pretty incredible.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi lost but put up a fight till the end! Kudos for making the Tour more exciting. I still think he was very strong this year (just look at some of his accelerations demolishing the rest of the field) and if not for JV show on stage 11 he would have had a very good chance of winning (albeit only slightly ahead of Vinge).

 

[Ripper]

This may be the worst outcome of this race, which was largely made as good as it was by Pog's all out attacks. But if he feels he has to ride conservatively in the climbs and try to win it on bonus seconds/TT he might have to become a very different kind of rider.

Hopefully he isn't capable of resisting his attacking urges.

I don't mean sprinting for bonus seconds. I mean one or two really big attacks (such as last year) rather than peppering with attacks everywhere. He was sprinting for minor time in week 1 this year and I don't think it helped him. I think he tired himself out. Might not have made a huge difference, but it might have.

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

He was definitely overconfident on the Galibier. But would you really let someone like Roglic go up the road with a couple of teammates, when it still wasn't clear whether his shoulder/back meant that his GC was over?

I'm not sure he really had a choice, without teammates.

 

[Extinction]

I don't mean sprinting for bonus seconds. I mean one or two really big attacks (such as last year) rather than peppering with attacks everywhere. He was sprinting for minor time in week 1 this year and I don't think it helped him. I think he tired himself out. Might not have made a huge difference, but it might have.

Could all those attacks week one have been because Pog and his team were concerned about losing time to Vingegaard in the high mountains?

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

I don't mean sprinting for bonus seconds. I mean one or two really big attacks (such as last year) rather than peppering with attacks everywhere. He was sprinting for minor time in week 1 this year and I don't think it helped him. I think he tired himself out. Might not have made a huge difference, but it might have.

That week 1 debacle may have also been the result of his team recognizing that Vingo would be a better climber in the high mountains, but not to what extent. They wanted a minute of cushion, hoping that it would be enough.

It turned out that it wasn't enough, but can you blame them for thinking that Pogi would be much closer to Vingo in climbing level? Before stage 11, no one had ever cracked the Pog.

 

[roundabout]

Pogacar dethroning this year could have been his own doing. Nothing against Vingegaard who deserved the crown for this year. But Pogacar with better coaching, better team, better schedule and not being so over confident the race would be a lot closer. Maybe being decided in the TT.

Pogacar got dropped conclusively both times Vingegaard and Jumbo went for it from further out.

I think he simply happened to be against a better rider even if he did not ride in the most optimal way.

 

[Extinction]

That week 1 debacle may have also been the result of his team recognizing that Vingo would be a better climber in the high mountains, but not to what extent. They wanted a minute of cushion, hoping that it would be enough.

It turned out that it wasn't enough, but can you blame them for thinking that Pogi would be much closer to Vingo in climbing level? Before stage 11, no one had ever cracked the Pog.

Probably seeing Vingegaard's climbing performance at the Dauphine lead Gianetti at UAE to call for an aggressive Pog in week one to build up a lead before the Alpes. Pog probably saw himself as still the strongest climber on the Galibier (after his own mistake of following every move and then needlessly have a dig himself), only to find Vingegaard on a higher level on the Granon.