Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Billie]

He's also not going to have another fringale on the hardest MTF of the race.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

I think it wil also depend on the route next year. If there will be a team time trial, Pogi is kinda screwed.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Good to see Teddy warming up his legs before the weekend watt bombs (ITT + Champs Elysees).
Following the dramatic race finale Vinge will leave Rabofail and resume his fishy career.

 

[jmdirt]

TP needs to take about 3:27 in the TT.

 

[bill1109]

And would you stop playing thought police in telling folks how they should analyse cycling. Clearly you have no clue about historical Tour journalism and its"convicts of the road" in French, Italian, Spanish and Dutch, for which the Grand Bouclé has always been presented as an epic fight for survival in the style of Greek tragedy and epic poetry. The very fame and legend of the Tour itself was built on such journalism, which captures the heroic nature of the event for the lay public. With good reason, because the dramatic suffering, triumphs and failures of its riders has always involved blood, sweat and tears and, unfortunately, even death occasionally. So other than "normalizing" the forum, perhaps you should read up on things first before attempting to give unsolicited lessons. Regarding "forum hardmen," do you even ride a bike?

of course i ride a bike...what does that have to do with anything? i also run, lift weights, i have been watching races for many many years and i am well aware of history, and also how cycling is changing. I dont need any lessons from you on anything related to cycling. lol...read up...yah..ok.

 

[bill1109]

You obviously don't watch much sport. It's not dramatic at all. It's quite simple - all or nothing. Risk everything to win the race....If it comes off, it's a great story. If it fails and he blows up, so what? He tried....there's glory in a heroic failure. Far better than just accepting 2nd place.....

haha..is it obvious? i watch lots of sports...wrong again. all or nothing is dramatic...sorry.... define all or nothing? what does "blow up" mean in reality? why don't you also throw the word epic in there..lol ...and yawn..he is in second place....like i said...a measured risk...do you really think anyone with a sponsor is going to do the all or nothing and go for 20th place instead of 2nd. He didn't just accept second place....that is what he went for and is satisfied with. This is all about measured risks, watching bike computer, and making sponsors happy...do or die, all or nothing talk is just drama.

 

[Unchained]

I don't think that enough good things can be said about this guy as a bike racer..I was a causal fan, but after seeing him, congratulating others for good rides, or winning stages, and in interviews saying positive things about other people who bettered him that day is admirable on many levels..I listened as he said w a smile " I got beat by the better man".

today in the white jersey attacking because it's great racing,not to change the podium in Paris..
I will follow him from now on and through my vibes will always wish him health and great results because I like his style.
in my opinion it's been a fantastic TDF..

 

[Extinction]

of course i ride a bike...what does that have to do with anything? i also run, lift weights, i have been watching races for many many years and i am well aware of history, and also how cycling is changing. I dont need any lessons from you on anything related to cycling. lol...read up...yah..ok.

You were the one giving lessons and you did so pompously in two separate posts. I just called you out on it. Just for the record, since you've given a litany of all your sporting endeavors, I've raced in the Alpes over legendary passes and there is nothing more epic, dramatic and harrowing in sport. Leave out lessons giving.

 

[Bolder]

True, he was (most likely) fair and squarely beaten, but Jumbo had to throw the kitchen sink at him, and he was down to 2 useful helpers by the last week. If he played the Galibier smarter he's still in yellow right now.

 

[Savant12]

Overanalyzing much here? He wasn't fooled, he didn't spend more energy than Vingegaard on the Galibier, his team turned out to be quite good actually, only Hirschi bad, the rest good, Majka never rode that well as helper his whole career, just that Jumbo is extra-terrestrial. Forget Sky at its best, nowhere close to this.

But in the end reason 1, 2 and 3 are: Vingegaard just was better. If he wasn't, Pogacar would still have won.

On that stage, physically and mentally, JV worked him over and got inside his head. He wasn't fooled but he did too much e.g. after getting attacked and counter-attacked repeatedly, he put in that big dig to try and drop Roglic and Vingo only to have it instantly covered. He tried to show them that he's still the boss but he should have let Roglic go a bit, recover and ride at his own tempo, only watching Vingo. Up until that stage, Pog had the measure of Vingo.

What didn't help after was the continuing super-strength of Jumbo and the lack of UAE team support.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I think it's mostly that Vingegaard is a bit better at HC MTFs (at least right now)

Not as much as Pogačar's time losses on the Granon and Hautacam reflect. Of course. He spent more energy in both stages.

I think Vingegaard would have been in yellow regardless, if Pog had a better team.

But the TT would have been decisive. A shame we were (likely) robbed of a meaningful TT battle. Was really looking forward to this one.

 

[Jan the Man]

I think it's mostly that Vingegaard is a bit better at HC MTFs (at least right now)

Not as much as Pogačar's time losses on the Granon and Hautacam reflect. Of course. He spent more energy in both stages.

I think Vingegaard would have been in yellow regardless, if Pog had a better team.

But the TT would have been decisive. A shame we were (likely) robbed of a meaningful TT battle. Was really looking forward to this one.

I generally agree with your assessment of where we’d likely be- he was done over covering both Rog and Vignegaard on Galibier which significantly increased his time losses on the Grannon, but Vigne is super strong and not shown weakness so would have probably put a minute into Pog regardless. Likewise Pog crashed on Hautacam but would have struggled to stay withon 30s/45s given Vignegaard’s form.

Still - all told with 2nd place, 3 stages and the white jersey another good tour, albeit he will naturally be disappointed not to win- i wonder if he will go to the Vuelta

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

I also wonder if he will still go the Vuelta, nothing has been mentioned of plans for the rest od the season.

He will go and def cheer Urska on at the womens tour. Def stage 2 ane la planche des belles filles.

 

[Red Rick]

I think it's mostly that Vingegaard is a bit better at HC MTFs (at least right now)

Not as much as Pogačar's time losses on the Granon and Hautacam reflect. Of course. He spent more energy in both stages.

I think Vingegaard would have been in yellow regardless, if Pog had a better team.

But the TT would have been decisive. A shame we were (likely) robbed of a meaningful TT battle. Was really looking forward to this one.

I think so many tactical things change if Pogacar doesn't kill himself on the Galibier. Especially considering that Vingegaard was actually hesitant about attacking on Granon. It's actually not an unlikely scenario that Pogacar loses very little time on Granon because Vingegaard may be even more wary to attack.

You might also end up with a 2020 like stalemate where Vingegaard has yellow or they're super close and both Pog and Vingo fancy their chances in the TT and they hold hands in the Pyrenees. Vingegaard was unquestionably the better climber, but it would've also taken a full commitment to drop Pog.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

haha..is it obvious? i watch lots of sports...wrong again. all or nothing is dramatic...sorry.... define all or nothing? what does "blow up" mean in reality? why don't you also throw the word epic in there..lol ...and yawn..he is in second place....like i said...a measured risk...do you really think anyone with a sponsor is going to do the all or nothing and go for 20th place instead of 2nd. He didn't just accept second place....that is what he went for and is satisfied with. This is all about measured risks, watching bike computer, and making sponsors happy...do or die, all or nothing talk is just drama.

Clueless - give your head a wobble. You're an absolute idiot!!

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Likely copied from the JV almanac?

No, copied from the common sense almanac. Try it, good book.

 

[Extinction]

True, he was (most likely) fair and squarely beaten, but Jumbo had to throw the kitchen sink at him, and he was down to 2 useful helpers by the last week. If he played the Galibier smarter he's still in yellow right now.

Agreed

 

[Miha81]

TP needs to take about 3:27 in the TT.

He won't. He knows 3rd TDF win is not going to happen this year. He knew after stage 17 when attacking could not break Vingo.

I would love magic ITT stage win but I guess he is too spent for that and some TT specialists were saving themselves for glory on this stage.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

On that stage, physically and mentally, JV worked him over and got inside his head. He wasn't fooled but he did too much e.g. after getting attacked and counter-attacked repeatedly, he put in that big dig to try and drop Roglic and Vingo only to have it instantly covered. He tried to show them that he's still the boss but he should have let Roglic go a bit, recover and ride at his own tempo, only watching Vingo. Up until that stage, Pog had the measure of Vingo.

What didn't help after was the continuing super-strength of Jumbo and the lack of UAE team support.

Mentally? I think more of Pogacar than to think his mental strength is what was decisive. Why would others attacking get into his head?

Only watching Vingegaard sounds good now. At the time? Roglic after his crash was still third on the Planche. So while normally you would expect him right there with Pogacar (and Vingegaard, who was a bit of a surprise there, same time), third still ahead of the rest seemed a good sign, on the way to 100% again. And probably Jumbo didn't know if it would get better soon or worse. Certainly Pogacar and UAE had no way of knowing. Seems Roglic's back pain got worse, until he gave up. No way of knowing that on the Galibier for Pogacar and UAE. And as others have said, let Roglic win 2 minutes (to be with Soler/Majka that's what it looked it would be when they were attacking) and have Van Aert tow him to the bottom of the Granon... he starts with 3'+ advantage. Hm, that's not where you want the second of the Tour 20 and winner of the last 3 Vueltas to be really. No, he had to cover that. Then the tempo at the end, with only Vingegaard, that maybe was too much, but again, Vinge rode the same tempo. And on the Galibier riding from the front really doesn't hurt much more than from the back. Mental question if you want, some riders don't seem to like making tempo on climbs, Pogacar doesn't seem to mind in the least, he had 0 disadvantage vs Vingegaard from that. Overall he spent the same amount of energy to Vingegaard on the Galibier.
Why the big time loss? Many possible reasons, didn't eat enough? Altitude? Was ok on the Galibier, but then all his super perfomances so far were on lower altitude, maybe he does a bit less well high up? Spent too much energy? This one can explain the time loss to Quintana and company, not to Vingegaard, since they rode together until then. Conclusion: Vingegaard was just stronger that day. As he was to Hautacam. Pogacar had a small collapse on the Granon, reasons see above, a mix of all possible too.

Up until that stage he had the measure of Vingegaard? Yes... but there is big difference between the stages until then and this one.... Col de la Croix and Pas de Morgins ? Nice, but with all that's coming... Planche des Belles Filles? Castrated with the addition of Super anyway, everybody just waiting till the last meters, but again, something completely different from a Galibier northside-Granon stage.

Lack of UAE team support? Planche was bad, huge group, Majka had to stop too early. After that was ok, Soler ok on Galibier, Majka then brought back by Van Aert just in time for the Granon, Majka certainly did well there. Alpe, forgot... Pegueres Majka was there until his accident. Peyragudes nobody can criticize McNulty. Hautacam, yes, the 3 surviving helpers didn't do much. The team did ok, Majka better than I expected. Put Vingegaard on UAE and Pogacar on Jumbo... and Vingegaard still wins. (If you switch after the pavé at least, a mechanical or crash on pavé for the UAE leader....)

Plus many here pose the wrong question anyway it seems. It's not why did Pogacar lose. It's why did Vingegaard win. And the answer is, he had the best legs, he was the strongest.
Wouldn't be surprised if he does a better TT today either. Normally would consider Pogacar a bit better, but after how this went... Think they will be within 30" of each other, but if Vingegaard wins a minute I'd be less surprised than if Pogacar wins one. Motivation and all too of course.

 

[Savant12]

Why the big time loss? Many possible reasons, didn't eat enough? Altitude? Was ok on the Galibier, but then all his super perfomances so far were on lower altitude, maybe he does a bit less well high up? Spent too much energy? This one can explain the time loss to Quintana and company, not to Vingegaard, since they rode together until then. Conclusion: Vingegaard was just stronger that day. As he was to Hautacam. Pogacar had a small collapse on the Granon, reasons see above, a mix of all possible too.

Small collapse? He lost 2:51 and was passed by Thomas, Gauda and Yates. He lost the Tour that day.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Small in the sense he didn't do a Yates....

 

[ppanther92]

Thats going to be hard in the future. I think among Pogi fans the hope was that he will at least have the upper hand over skinny Vingegaard in TTs.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Thats going to be hard in the future. I think among Pogi fans the hope was that he will at least have the upper hand over skinny Vingegaard in TTs.

Vingegaard didn't gain a lot of time. They were even in time trials this Tour so unless Vingegaard drops Pogi in the mountains, Pogi will have the upper hand thanks to his capacity to grab bonus seconds.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Thats going to be hard in the future. I think among Pogi fans the hope was that he will at least have the upper hand over skinny Vingegaard in TTs.

That's for sure going to be hard in the future.
But I still have hope.

 

[ppanther92]

Vingegaard didn't gain a lot of time. They were even in time trials this Tour so unless Vingegaard drops Pogi in the mountains, Pogi will have the upper hand thanks to his capacity to grab bonus seconds.

I would bet that Pogacar win no Tour on bonus seconds alone. He has to drop/have a gap to Vingegaard on some stage or another. Quite sure about that. If thats possible - we will see. Challenging at least.