Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Gargamel35]

But even the stuff w/kg is not true. Remco didn't do better w/kg at the vuelta than Vingegaard and even pogacar at the tour.
He did some good w/kg on one week weak races like tour norway. It's not the same thing.

Remco barely dropped Mas at last vuelta. The difference on general classification between Mas and remco was the iTT, and that's a fact.
How can you with a lot of confidence say that remco would beat pogi and vingegaard when he wasn't better than Mas in the mountains. It doesn't make sense.

Because he's from Belgium.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Maybe he has a chance when is raining. If not, it is impossible. He is too big and dangerous to be offered him a free ride

 

[Gigs_98]

Maybe he has a chance when is raining. If not, it is impossible. He is too big and dangerous to be offered him a free ride

He can win, just with more favorable race dynamics. I think the others could only respond to his attack because they all expected it. Had he attacked from their backwheels in a moment of slower pace, I don't know whether they could close the gap he would initially get. But like this, the slipstream is just too effective.

 

[Red Rick]

He can win, just with more favorable race dynamics. I think the others could only respond to his attack because they all expected it. Had he attacked from their backwheels in a moment of slower pace, I don't know whether they could close the gap he would initially get. But like this, the slipstream is just too effective.

For De Ronde and Sanremo I think Pogacar made a very stupid mistake of being born in 1998.

 

[Salvarani]

For De Ronde and Sanremo I think Pogacar made a very stupid mistake of being born in 1998.

If Ganna could finish second... Pog could definitely win these races. If he will is another question, that nobody knows the answer to yet.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

For De Ronde and Sanremo I think Pogacar made a very stupid mistake of being born in 1998.

If he‘s born in 1950 he never races any of those races.

 

[Panda Claws]

MvdP was mostly just incredibly strong. I was expecting them to hit the bottom as four.

At that point he would not be favoured but he could win.

 

[Red Rick]

It‘s the logical consequence of focusing on w/kg. But I think it isn‘t clear that Vingegaard is better than Pogi, neither that Evenepoel is better than Vingegaard.

If all I do is W/kg calculations I wouldn't add the context that they're not that important.

 

[Ripper]

Hmmmm ... not sure if it was legs, luck, or if he might have peaked a bit too early for the spring stage races. If the latter, that should be evident in the next races.

 

[Elos Anjos]

One major flaw in comments is that Tadej looses, he failed, while it can just be that others were better. And that is just a measure of how good he is.

 

[Lequack]

Hmmmm ... not sure if it was legs, luck, or if he might have peaked a bit too early for the spring stage races. If the latter, that should be evident in the next races.

I think he did as expected, but Poggio is simply not a W/kg type of climb when Pog can distance MVDP or Wout. He couldn't the previous years as well. And MVDP broke the record by 5 secoonds today, meaning Pog & others matched the record, but still couldn't win. Not sure what kind of strategy he could use to win this race, but it can't just be a Poggio attack.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But even the stuff w/kg is not true. Remco didn't do better w/kg at the vuelta than Vingegaard and even pogacar at the tour.
He did some good w/kg on one week weak races like tour norway. It's not the same thing.

Remco barely dropped Mas at last vuelta. The difference on general classification between Mas and remco was the iTT, and that's a fact.
How can you with a lot of confidence say that remco would beat pogi and vingegaard when he wasn't better than Mas in the mountains. It doesn't make sense.

The difference is that Mas was able to take back time on the two major stages after Evenepoel crashed. The difference is that there was only one rider who kept the same pace as Vine, on stage 6, and it was Evenepoel with Mas in the wheel not able to take one pull. You see what you want to see. Or better, you chose to ignore what you don't want to see.

And i could be mistaken, but i thought Evenepoel did the same numbers of Norway in the Vuelta as well.

Other than that i agree that claiming Evenepoel could drop Vingegaard and/or Pogacar in the mountains doesn't make sense. He'll have to show that in an actual (important) race.

 

[Gwbert]

I think he did as expected, but Poggio is simply not a W/kg type of climb when Pog can distance MVDP or Wout. He couldn't the previous years as well. And MVDP broke the record by 5 secoonds today, meaning Pog & others matched the record, but still couldn't win. Not sure what kind of strategy he could use to win this race, but it can't just be a Poggio attack.

UAE were slow to come to the front on the Cipressa and didn’t make it an all out effort. So things to be improved upon. He may also benefit from better tactics, attacking over the top of someone else etc.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Teddy couldn't even drop a 90 kilo guy on a climb so no chance against a peaking 30 kilo opponent at the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Hmmmm ... not sure if it was legs, luck, or if he might have peaked a bit too early for the spring stage races. If the latter, that should be evident in the next races.

I think it was just a very telegraphed attack with not much acceleration because they were already going fast. And he was clearly better than Van Aert. MvdP might be the biggest talent in the world for this specific effort. Ganna being there is a surprise maybe, but he's a 4km ITT god who also has good climbing results on 4% climbs.

I don't think he's peaking too early. But maybe going as nuts as he did in Paris Nice isn't the best preperation for Milano Sanremo. That mistake wouldn't hamper him in De Ronde. But it's certainly possible his spring schedule is too heavy now, and that he's gonna get real tired by Liege.

 

[limak_]

I think Pog pulled on the front all the way after his initial attack, cause he thought there was no chance anyone could come off his wheel and he was kinda satisfied that he managed to make a split with "just" 3 other guys (not like last year when a big group was able to come back on his wheel one after another). Some ask why he pulled for that long, but actually there was nothing else he could do. Almost no one expected MvdP to be that strong.

 

[Extinction]

In this case Pog's natural proclivity to attack hard, because he believes he can get away, worked against him, since he wasn't strong enough. Of course, he had to try and then see the damage done. However, the moment he had three on his wheels and could no longer up the pace, he should have pulled off to make the others work. Instead he towed them along, thus literally playing domestique for MvdP. It was actually quite sensational to watch.

 

[Nick2413]

In this case Pog's natural proclivity to attack hard, because he believes he can get away, worked against him, since he wasn't strong enough. Of course, he had to try and then see the damage done. However, the moment he had three on his wheels and could no longer up the pace, he should have pulled off to make the others work. Instead he towed them along, thus literally playing domestique for MvdP. It was actually quite sensational to watch.

He would have ended up in an even bigger group still with no ability to make a gap, so I don’t think he really had any options. I think Van der Poel was too strong anyway.

 

[Extinction]

He would have ended up in an even bigger group still with no ability to make a gap, so I don’t think he really had any options. I think Van der Poel was too strong anyway.

No, I was referring to when the gap was already established. They were gone. Pog kept pulling for too long, in my opinion, which only set MvdP up perfectly to attack over him. Had he rather pulled off, MvdP would have probably been forced to attack from farther out and the others may have had a better chance of responding. In any case, MvdP was the strongest, but Pog put him in the ideal position.

 

[Ripper]

It looks like Pogo is trying the Nibali approach. Of course the difference being that for such an approach to be successful, the race dynamics have to be just right, and Pogo would have to improve his descending off the Poggio.

 

[Cookster15]

In this case Pog's natural proclivity to attack hard, because he believes he can get away, worked against him, since he wasn't strong enough. Of course, he had to try and then see the damage done. However, the moment he had three on his wheels and could no longer up the pace, he should have pulled off to make the others work. Instead he towed them along, thus literally playing domestique for MvdP. It was actually quite sensational to watch.

At the speed they were climbing the Poggio there is a massive draft. Pog's attempt might work on a bigger, longer, steeper climb. Having said this, if they didn't manage to cling to his wheel it might have worked.

 

[Extinction]

At the speed they were climbing the Poggio there is a massive draft. Pog's attempt might work on a bigger, longer, steeper climb. Having said this, if they didn't manage to cling to his wheel it might have worked.

Which confirms, today at least, he was not strong enough. He needed to pull a Nibali 2018, but lacked that extra something and when that was evident with an unexpected Ganna and much more expected Van Aert and MVP in tow, that's when going on the defense, which could be his Achille's heel, was called for and so sealed his fate.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Nibali only won MSR because nobody cared about him. He was declining so no one believed he would be able to pull it off. Pogacar doesn't have this privilege.

 

[Extinction]

Nibali only won MSR because nobody cared about him. He was declining so no one believed he would be able to pull it off. Pogacar doesn't have this privilege.

If you think they just let Nibali escape then they were fools, because everybody knew how fast he descends. No, Nibali was cagey and the others couldn't follow.

 

[Didinho]

When he attacked and saw that only Ganna was directly in his wheel, it was logical to keep pushing. With Wout and Mathieu on a little gap, Ganna could be the best one to have for the descent/flat. I think he didn't even looked back after he saw the gap.
Maybe one day he'll win this, with this approach he'll always ride the final.