Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Wouldn't surprise me tbh.

Flumserberg isn't that much faster than frigging Roglic on Lo Port, and the latter was paced suboptimally

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's definitely not Alpe d'Huez. On Alpe d'Huez you just need to attack and drop everyone early and you get the motors right in front of you because of how crazy the spectators are.

Pog & Vingo did Alpe in 39'08'' in 2022. How much faster do you think one of them could go with a stronger attack? 1 minute seems plausible, maybe more. I don't think 2.5 minutes were possible, it was already a solid effort by them.

 

[Red Rick]

Pog & Vingo did Alpe in 39'08'' in 2022. How much faster do you think one of them could go with a stronger attack? 1 minute seems plausible, maybe more. I don't think 2.5 minutes were possible, it was already a solid effort by them.

It was the day after Granon, it was 3 HC climbs, it was a million degrees Celcius, and Enric Mas finished 5 seconds back. Under equal circumstances I think they would have been closer to the Alpe d'Huez record than the Hautacam record.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It was the day after Granon, it was 3 HC climbs, it was a million degrees Celcius, and Enric Mas finished 5 seconds back. Under equal circumstances I think they would have been closer to the Alpe d'Huez record than the Hautacam record.

I forgot about D-day on the previous stage. If the organizers had flipped those two stages the Alpe time by Vingo could've been a bit problematic for them.

 

[Froome]

Flumserberg isn't that much faster than frigging Roglic on Lo Port, and the latter was paced suboptimally

https://twitter.com/x/status/1639349702616309768

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1639349702616309768

 

[Red Rick]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1639349702616309768

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1639349702616309768

25m/h off on a shallower climb that's almost 20% longer in duration makes it very similar level efforts if not outright better.

In general people say records may be feasable in an MTT but unipuerto stages are much better for climbing records than MTTs unless the climb is absurdly steep

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In general people say records may be feasable in an MTT but unipuerto stages are much better for climbing records than MTTs unless the climb is absurdly steep

Moto assistance?

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1111750462859038720

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1111750462859038720?lang=de


The famous "verbier perfomance" was 1874 m/h, way less than Lo port.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1111750462859038720

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1111750462859038720?lang=de


The famous "verbier perfomance" was 1874 m/h, way less than Lo port.

I actually questioned the validity of this 1925 m/h of VAM of Lo Port (regarding elevation measurements). But even if it's valid it's not most difficult to achieve - a lot of guys had a ridiculous VAM there and gaps were minimal. The record (whatever the VAM really was) is there for taking - a strong attack by Pog or Vingo (with a good pacing from the bottom) will do.

 

[Froome]

I actually questioned the validity of this 1925 m/h of VAM of Lo Port (regarding elevation measurements). But even if it's valid it's not most difficult to achieve - a lot of guys had a ridiculous VAM there and gaps were minimal. The record (whatever the VAM really was) is there for taking - a strong attack by Pog or Vingo (with a good pacing from the bottom) will do.

I think Pogacar on Lo Port certainly would be capable to do VAM>1950, perfect effort for him.

 

[Red Rick]

Moto assistance?

Group drafting.

Pretty sure watts estimates often just assume 30% air resistance reduction on climbs when drafting and then 0% reduction when in front, but the drafting gets much bigger than 30% in bigger groups. I think this is quite clear considering the highest W/kg overestimations we see tend to be on 8% unipuerto climbs that start with a big group.

 

[snipeheem]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1111750462859038720

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1111750462859038720?lang=de


The famous "verbier perfomance" was 1874 m/h, way less than Lo port.

Can you explain to me why it is famous verbier perfomance ? Sorry i am new to this sport but try to understand the history of cycling, goats , climbing records , etc

 

[Red Rick]

Can you explain to me why it is famous verbier perfomance ? Sorry i am new to this sport but try to understand the history of cycling, goats , climbing records , etc

The VAM were super high at the time, so the guestimates for the W/kg were very high, which at the time led to a lot of doping accusations and suspicion. I'm pretty sure there was just a very big tailwind on that climb and the pacing strategy was super aggressive

 

[Froome]

Can you explain to me why it is famous verbier perfomance ? Sorry i am new to this sport but try to understand the history of cycling, goats , climbing records , etc

At the time, there were reports that Contador did 7 or 7.2 w/kg, something like that, generated a lot of controversy, like Greg lemond claims about that perfomance.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think Pogacar on Lo Port certainly would be capable to do VAM>1950, perfect effort for him.

Pogacar never did more than 1850 m/h of VAM for such a duration (Peyresourde) and it was paced very strongly by JV. That's why this Lo Port VAM (achieved by so many guys) stinks but whatever, let it be "1950 m/h" of VAM on Lo Port for Pogacar.

 

[snipeheem]

At the time, there were reports that Contador did 7 or 7.2 w/kg, something like that, generated a lot of controversy, like Greg lemond claims about that perfomance.

Thank you so much

 

[Red Rick]

Pogacar never did more than 1850 m/h of VAM for such a duration (Peyresourde) and it was paced very strongly by JV. That's why this Lo Port VAM (achieved by so many guys) stinks but whatever, let it be "1950 m/h" of VAM on Lo Port for Pogacar.

Pog did when he obliterated the Peyresourde record

 

[snipeheem]

Did prime Alberto would have a chance against Pog/vingo in the tour ? Or they are on totally different level?

 

[Red Rick]

Did prime Alberto would have a chance against Pog/vingo in the tour ? Or they are on totally different level?

In pure watts Contador was not close to what they do now

 

[Tim Cahill]

I read somewhere that Pantani Flumsserberg is the greatest climbing performance ever

Pantani did Flumserberg mostly alone, attacking like 6km or something before the top and in rainy conditions, so it's impressive that the VAM is more than Lo Port which was ideal and in a group mostly. 7.4 W/KG est for 23 minutes I believe, not possible since the 50% HCT limit was introduced.

 

[snipeheem]

Pantani did Flumserberg mostly alone, attacking like 6km or something before the top and in rainy conditions, so it's impressive that the VAM is more than Lo Port which was ideal and in a group mostly. 7.4 W/KG est for 23 minutes I believe, not possible since the 50% HCT limit was introduced

Pantani did 7,4w/kg for 23 minutes?

 

[snipeheem]

In pure watts Contador was not close to what they do now

Is there any chance both of them are clean ?

 

[velaso montador]

This is just common knowledge outside forums were you will meet biased fans.

Go outside of a forum and this is just common knowledge at this point and i can definitely comfirm that withing pro cycling this is general knowledge aswell, every rider ive trained and ridden with says the same. You can pretty much ask any rider of the pro peleton today and they will all say it. Its just general knowledge.

But forum people also need their fun in life so let em it doesnt matter.

Thanks .

Indurain is one of the best legend the sport got so nothing against him. But evolution is ofcourse real and its a difference betwen the greatest's and best.

 

[Gigs_98]

“Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't.”

I mean I don't love that answer by Pogacar either, but c'mon, it's not like he claimed he was the best ever. That quote really doesn't fit.

 

[velaso montador]

On the topic of vingegaard, genuin question why is it always the same 3 people forcing him into the debate with pogacar everytime?

Ive never seen more insecure behaviour and i think its quite telling and the answer kinda is self explonatory from that itself. Im sorry its just very odd. Vingegaard obvious not even in the discussion with Pogacar why force it so much its really not entertaining.