Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[scribers]

Rip velaso matodor! Will know ye more on the reanimating!

 

[Blanco]

I don't see how Van der Poel's 2023 road season was better than Pogačar's.

He won the WCRR, Sanremo, Roubaix and got second in Ronde.

Meanwhile Pogačar won Flanders, Lombardia, Paris Nice, Amstel, Flèche, got second at the Tour and third at the WCRR.

I understand that the journalists didn't want to vote for Pogačar because he 'failed' at the Tour and Van der Poel was more effective in his goals but objectively he was the best road rider of 2023.

Plus, in my opinion, to describe who the best rider in the world is one should also take into account what happened in previous seasons even though the last one carries more weight.

Me bringing Valverde and Contador is just because I remember you defending Valverde in several topics by taking into account his countless podium places and wins in the secondary races while now for you the best rider in the world is the one that despite the legendary season he did, got a total of six wins.

You don't. But I do.
Mathieu did something you could see 20 years ago last time. And before that only two riders did the same, Eddy Merckx and Rik Van Looy. Winning two monuments and the worlds in the same season is HUGE, and Tour de France podium and secondary races can't compensate that.
6 wins are more than enough, if you have 3 of those.

 

[KZD]

You don't. But I do.
Mathieu did something you could see 20 years ago last time. And before that only two riders did the same, Eddy Merckx and Rik Van Looy. Winning two monuments and the worlds in the same season is HUGE, and Tour de France podium and secondary races can't compensate that.
6 wins are more than enough, if you have 3 of those.

And when was the last time someone won two monuments and finished on both the Tour and Worlds podium in a single season?

There is a reason why I said from the first moment that Van der Poel would be a worthy Velo d'or winner and had a legendary season but I am sure most people rate a Tour and Worlds podium, Paris-Nice, Amstel and Flèche wins (I don't even talk about the real secondary races like Andalucia) above the WCRR and anything else Van der Poel won on the road last year.

But you do you, I guess.

 

[Froome]

You don't. But I do.
Mathieu did something you could see 20 years ago last time. And before that only two riders did the same, Eddy Merckx and Rik Van Looy. Winning two monuments and the worlds in the same season is HUGE, and Tour de France podium and secondary races can't compensate that.
6 wins are more than enough, if you have 3 of those.

Mathieu van der poel did a great season, but winning the Tour de France after doing one of the best TT ever + Dauphine+Tour basque country+ 2nd La vuelta+2 stages in La Vuelta, is more than enough to be a deserved Velon d'or.

The slovenian Jan Ullrich is out of question for this conversation of velon d'or 2023, after he "collapsed" in the Tour. He was 2nd but finished very far from the first place.

 

[Lequack]

This thread is getting everyone banned it seems. First @mou and now @velaso montador

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Oh lord. Without crashes, UAE looks scary good!
Pogacar
Ayuso
Yates
Almeida
Soler
Sivakov
They will murder every climb in the Tour.

It's hard to imagine why they need Almeida there. There is no need for that many climbers. Starting the Tour with two alphas isn't ideal, but I suppose that's what Ayuso was promised.

So, if it were my decision then: Pogacar (leader), Ayuso (co-leader), Yates (stay with the leaders for as long as possible), Soler & Sivakov (mountain helper), Wellens (road captain), Bjerg & Politt (rouleur)

 

[Froome]

It's hard to imagine why they need Almeida there. There is no need for that many climbers. Starting the Tour with two alphas isn't ideal, but I suppose that's what Ayuso was promised.

So, if it were my decision then: Pogacar (leader), Ayuso (co-leader), Yates (stay with the leaders for as long as possible), Soler & Sivakov (mountain helper), Wellens (road captain), Bjerg & Politt (rouleur)

Maybe they need many climbers for the strategy they want to implement in the Tour.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Maybe they need many climbers for the strategy they want to implement in the Tour.

Almeida's style is not really suited to attacking tactics.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's hard to imagine why they need Almeida there. There is no need for that many climbers. Starting the Tour with two alphas isn't ideal, but I suppose that's what Ayuso was promised.

So, if it were my decision then: Pogacar (leader), Ayuso (co-leader), Yates (stay with the leaders for as long as possible), Soler & Sivakov (mountain helper), Wellens (road captain), Bjerg & Politt (rouleur)

Almeida will be vital. He has everything to be a great domestique. A pure and massive engine to maintain a hard tempo for a long time. He is perfect before yates (who can do his best Porte's impression before Froome's attack).

 

[Froome]

Almeida will be vital. He has everything to be a great domestique. A pure and massive engine to maintain a hard tempo for a long time. He is perfect before yates (who can do his best Porte's impression before Froome's attack).

On that case he would be working as a domestique of Vingegaard(in case he goes to the Tour). They will not use Almeida, yates, ayuso to maintain a hard tempo for long time, because that's the strategy of Visma who suits more Vingegaard.

They will use them to attack. @Slavique Nuke almeida is not that suited for attacks, but he will have to give it a go, and probably he will be the first sacrificed, even before yates and ayuso.

 

[scribers]

This thread is getting everyone banned it seems. First @mou and now @velaso montador

I’m kinda wanting to be put in timeout myself. :c D

 

[Blanco]

And when was the last time someone won two monuments and finished on both the Tour and Worlds podium in a single season?

There is a reason why I said from the first moment that Van der Poel would be a worthy Velo d'or winner and had a legendary season but I am sure most people rate a Tour and Worlds podium, Paris-Nice, Amstel and Flèche wins (I don't even talk about the real secondary races like Andalucia) above the WCRR and anything else Van der Poel won on the road last year.

But you do you, I guess.

Well WCRR was enough for Valverde to beat Thomas, a Tour winner, and Froome - Giro winner and 2nd at Tour

 

[Blanco]

This thread is getting everyone banned it seems. First @mou and now @velaso montador

Not everyone. Just the latest Pogacar fan(atic)s.
There's couple of more in the line, waiting...

 

[topcat]

Well WCRR was enough for Valverde to beat Thomas, a Tour winner, and Froome - Giro winner and 2nd at Tour

3rd. But I agree with you. Mvdp should have won the velon last year. Pog is a brilliant cyclist, one of the best ever but there's no need to go over the top about him.

 

[repre]

The problem will be Ayuso. Yates was bought to be a domestique of Pogacar. Almeida will eventually lose time and will work for Pogacar. The question is Ayuso, I don't think he is willing to pull for Pogacar.
Another thing very important is who will work for these guys in flat sections?
Pogacar
Ayuso
Soler
Yates
Sivakov
Almeida
It will be Politt and Wellens?
Wellens is always crashing and doesn't tolerate extreme heat.
If I was the one deciding, I would leave Soler and Wellens at home and bring Laengen and Bjerg

They need to put Sivakov out and bring Pollitt, wellens and Bjerg in. Sivakov is not that great and with Bjerg team is much more balanced. He can pull in medium mountains too, so doesn't hurt much

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Almeida will be vital. He has everything to be a great domestique. A pure and massive engine to maintain a hard tempo for a long time. He is perfect before yates (who can do his best Porte's impression before Froome's attack).

Your theory only works under sterile conditions. Because you ignore the fact that: 1) Almeida is below average on descent. He needs people to look after him. 2) if others are on the attack he doesn't react to a quick change of pace.

Almeida is a good rider, a solid 2nd tier GC leader, not a super domestique.

 

[scribers]

Not everyone. Just the latest Pogacar fan(atic)s.
There's couple of more in the line, waiting...

Name names!

 

[ppanther92]

Oh lord. Without crashes, UAE looks scary good!
Pogacar
Ayuso
Yates
Almeida
Soler
Sivakov
They will murder every climb in the Tour.

Wouldn’t be surpirsed if this ends up somehow dysfunctional.

Assuming its all for Pogi, my best team would rather look something like this:

Pogacar
Yates
Ayuso
Soler
Großschartner
Wellens
Bjerg
Politt

Much more balanced. Large guys for the flats (Bjerg, Politt) are needed to save energy in positioning in hectic stages. Großschartner and Wellens are much more versatile than lets say Sivakov. With Ayuso and Almeida I am not 100% sold that they are committed domestiques, so I rather would leave 1 out, and there is anyway enough climbing power in the team.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Your theory only works under sterile conditions. Because you ignore the fact that: 1) Almeida is below average on descent. He needs people to look after him. 2) if others are on the attack he doesn't react to a quick change of pace.

Almeida is a good rider, a solid 2nd tier GC leader, not a super domestique.

We have to wait to see. He played perfectly in Catalunya and you are underestimate Almeida and his engine.

 

[scribers]

The landscape for a Vuelta good result is also coming together this year for UAE super domestiques. Let's assume Vingo will need a year to get back to his former self (god willing), and Roglic/Remco put it all on the line for le tour, I would consider NOT being on this tour squad if Pogi comes in ready to compete.

 

[topt]

It's hard to imagine why they need Almeida there. There is no need for that many climbers. Starting the Tour with two alphas isn't ideal, but I suppose that's what Ayuso was promised.

So, if it were my decision then: Pogacar (leader), Ayuso (co-leader), Yates (stay with the leaders for as long as possible), Soler & Sivakov (mountain helper), Wellens (road captain), Bjerg & Politt (rouleur)

I dont really know where this is coming from, Ayuso co-leader to Pog ? Pog is an absolute alpha dog at UAE

 

[Lorzenz08]

3rd. But I agree with you. Mvdp should have won the velon last year. Pog is a brilliant cyclist, one of the best ever but there's no need to go over the top about him.

Sorry but no. Pogacar 2023 season was definitely better than Mvdp season. Finishing 2nd at the TdF after an injury a few weeks before, and being the only guy competitive with Vingegaard while having won Flanders, Amstel Gold race, and Fleche. WTH?! And then finishing 3rd at the WC.

Concerning the TdF even Ulrich never threatened Armstrong like Pogi threatened Vingo until the last few stages. In 2003 Ulrich was so close to Armstrong only because of TTs, never because of these epic climbing battles.

1) Pogi annihilate MVDP in climbing
2) Pogi annihilate MVDP in TTs
3) Pogi can mostly go 50/50 in any of the road race against MVDP.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

I dont really know where this is coming from, Ayuso co-leader to Pog ? Pog is an absolute alpha dog at UAE

I have no doubt that under normal circumstances Pog will finish ahead of Ayuso. But if you expect Ayuso to help Pog, you are in for a nasty surprise.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I have no doubt that under normal circumstances Pog will finish ahead of Ayuso. But if you expect Ayuso to help Pog, you are in for a nasty surprise.

I think he will work after seeing how stronger Pog is compared to him. I can see a scenario where Pog will put the hammer down already in stage 1 with a strong long range attack.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

I think he will work after seeing how stronger Pog is compared to him. I can see a scenario where Pog will put the hammer down already in stage 1 with a strong long range attack.

I doubt it. Maybe if he loses time and starts racing aggressively, with long-range attacks, which may be beneficial for Pog. But I don't think you should ever expect serious domestique work from Ayuso.