Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[scribers]

I don't know why he cares about one week stage races. Cycling is all about GT's, monuments and worlds. This is where legacy is created. No one will ever remember if he wins Pais Vasco, Tour de Suisse or Tour de Romandie. And these 3 races are not good for his schedule. Racing Pais Vasco means he can't compete in Flanders, Romandie starts when he goes on vacations. Tour de Suisse (fighting for GC) is not a good prep for the Tour.
If he tries to win these races instead of really focusing on winning more monuments and Tours, I will be very surprised.
In order to be the best ever he needs to win 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 3 Vueltas. In terms of monuments, he needs to win all of them and surpass 11 wins.

Wet ambitious targets. And I like it!

I can’t disagree with some one week stage races ducking up his classics schedule. But winning the primary one week stage races is a worthy accomplishment

 

[Oldermanish]

No matter how hardcore fan you might be in favor of MVDP it’s hard to look past the achievements of Pog. He is definitely more versatile (on the road) than MVDP and he has beaten Mathieu at least once (RVV 2023) on his own ground. Should Pog continue to win spectacularly other classics such as MSR and PR (not too unlikely) he will clearly be the best Classics rider in this lifetime. Yet the next major showdown between these two is another divider: the next Road WC. Can Pog put that one down after having completed the Giro and the Tour? If yes then it’s something otherworldly to behold.

Be fair to MvP. He's won alot of Rainbows in races that take a max effort for two hours or less, save for his Masterfull WC last year. Meanwhile this race was an excruciatingly long event favoring GT riders used to spending 7 hours in the saddle. Not his cup of tea nor should it be. Why run a marathon when you can own the 100 meter Gold medal? He is suited superbly to what he enjoys winning and we should enjoy it. Hopefully Wout can re emerge as a great antagonist and challenge him.

 

[Oldermanish]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

Put those two into the same soup. I prefer Lemond's victories to anything accomplished by other American pretenders. Except Hampsten; he was the real deal.

 

[SHAD0W93]

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/tadej-pogacar-monument-ranking

 

[jaylew]

I really can the scenario where Pogi wins Giro-Tour but ends being beaten by MVP in the ORR and some people will say how MVP is better than Pogacar in one day races, ignoring completly the effort Pogi put to win the double.

And if that happened it would be a legitimate response. It doesn't matter what other races you do or try to win, whether GTs, stage races, cyclocross, mtb, whatever...same as with injuries and illness, you can always say someone would have won or could have won, but you have to actually do it. They both have 6 monuments in 3 different races atm, but Pogacar was beaten head to head in the biggest one day of them all and hasn't won it yet so it's easy for me to have Pogacar #2 right now as far as one day races are concerned. Nice thing is, we do get to measure them head to head since they both are likely to compete in 4 of the 6 races multiple times in the years to come. Pogacar is far and away the best overall road cyclist in the world and maybe I'll consider him the best one day racer in the future but not just yet.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

What interests me is how did they plan form peaks and lows? Surely Pog can be in good form most of the year but in previous years he always had spring peak and then longer break after Ardennes classics and before the Tour. How is it this year? No time to recover and slow down a little: time between Giro and Tour is too short and the recent altitude camp break was more about further form buildup. He must be on fire since Strade to the Tour! Will he pay for it in July?

 

[Bolder]

Be fair to MvP. He's won alot of Rainbows in races that take a max effort for two hours or less, save for his Masterfull WC last year. Meanwhile this race was an excruciatingly long event favoring GT riders used to spending 7 hours in the saddle. Not his cup of tea nor should it be. Why run a marathon when you can own the 100 meter Gold medal? He is suited superbly to what he enjoys winning and we should enjoy it. Hopefully Wout can re emerge as a great antagonist and challenge him.

It’s a venn diagram between their skill sets, including GTs, cx, xc.

In the races that overlap and slightly favor one or the other, IMO Pog has the edge by winning Flanders. Last year’s WC was more on Mvdp’s side, while LBL is on pogs side of the intersection of the circles.

 

[Salvarani]

What interests me is how did they plan form peaks and lows? Surely Pog can be in good form most of the year but in previous years he always had spring peak and then longer break after Ardennes classics and before the Tour. How is it this year? No time to recover and slow down a little: time between Giro and Tour is too short and the recent altitude camp break was more about further form buildup. He must be on fire since Strade to the Tour! Will he pay for it in July?

I think the answer is less race days this spring, compared to previous years.

He has a new trainer and methods. DIfferent approach. Thats actually a fact.

I dont think he has necessarily "peaked" yet this spring.

I think he has just been training and mixed it up with racing. I dont think he has really aimed to peak yet.

I think the plan is to keep the form from doing the Giro into the Tour.

 

[KZD]

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/tadej-pogacar-monument-ranking

Very interesting article, I would personally rate Lombardia 2021 a bit higher but as I had already talked about after Strade, what really stands out nowadays is how much more dominant Pogi has become in his one day race wins when compared to his earlier days like 2021.

@Krzysztof_O I think this season, Liège marks the beginning of his spring peak that should last at least until the first two weeks of the Giro.

 

[Sybrand]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

 

[RedheadDane]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 starts in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Hate to burst your bubble but... wouldn't it be more correct to say his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L?

Edited to reflect edit of quoted post:

I suppose you could say that they only thing that could beat him has been a pothole.

 

[Fos]

I think the answer is less race days this spring, compared to previous years.

He has a new trainer and methods. DIfferent approach. Thats actually a fact.

I dont think he has necessarily "peaked" yet this spring.

I think he has just been training and mixed it up with racing. I dont think he has really aimed to peak yet.

I think the plan is to keep the form from doing the Giro into the Tour.

And according to what has been known, there has not been a typical concentration at altitude in Sierra Nevada. Shortened and rest at low altitude for at least several days.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar's base level is two levels above everyone's peak (excluding Big 6)

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Unbeaten (in a limited selection) is not unbeatable. One is an historical statement, the other is a future prediction. And without uncertainty, what is sport?

 

[Salvarani]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Unbeatable in those editions, yes.

 

[Valv.Piti]

What interests me is how did they plan form peaks and lows? Surely Pog can be in good form most of the year but in previous years he always had spring peak and then longer break after Ardennes classics and before the Tour. How is it this year? No time to recover and slow down a little: time between Giro and Tour is too short and the recent altitude camp break was more about further form buildup. He must be on fire since Strade to the Tour! Will he pay for it in July?

I think his base form is just the highest in the entire history of the sport at this point, so even operating at 80-90%, he usually demolishes these other riders unless we talk peak Van der Poel, Vingegaard, WVA etc. in races that suits them.

 

[Netserk]

I think his base form is just the highest in the entire history of the sport at this point, so even operating at 80-90%, he usually demolishes these other riders unless we talk peak Van der Poel, Vingegaard, WVA etc. in races that suits them.

He was at least as good in Catalunya as he was in Paris-Nice last year, the same for Liège and Ronde, Sanremo both years as well.

So if this is "base level" without any peak of form, he also didn't peak for the spring last year and rode at base level then.

 

[roundabout]

Not sure if he did any specific training camps last year, but I think this year there was no work at altitude before Catalunya and he rested at low altitude after Catalunya.

But maybe he gets no boost from altitude.

 

[Nick2413]

I just don’t think peak is a very relevant term anymore, particularly for guys like him. Pogacar will of course be better in some key races, but it’s more of a sinusoidal wave that never dips below monument winning capability. Rolling plains rather than peaks and valleys.

 

[Netserk]

I just don’t think peak is a very relevant term anymore, particularly for guys like him. Pogacar will of course be better in some key races, but it’s more of a sinusoidal wave that never dips below monument winning capability. Rolling plains rather than peaks and valleys.

For the previous seasons, that has not been the case after the Tour.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

For the previous seasons, that has not been the case after the Tour.

Working off memory, but it seems like he generally seems super high form in late winter, spring, summer through Tour, then a dip in form immediately after the Tour, then back up for Olympics, WCRR, Lombardia. So are you talking about a couple weeks there or just the fact that he has said he wasn't up for riding the Vuelta?

 

[Netserk]

Working off memory, but it seems like he generally seems super high form in late winter, spring, summer through Tour, then a dip in form immediately after the Tour, then back up for Olympics, WCRR, Lombardia. So are you talking about a couple weeks there or just the fact that he has said he wasn't up for riding the Vuelta?

All race days that weren't Lombardia or OG/WC immediately after the Tour. His "base level" after the Tour is not like his "base level" in spring.

 

[KZD]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Pogačar may not be unbeatable but he is the most dominant rider that I have ever seen in the hilly monuments (LBL + Lombardia). What makes him so good for these two races, is that he is almost undroppable in short to medium duration climbs, has a very big engine for +6hour races and a killer sprint at the end.

He is only 2 wins away from Merckx there so at least in the hilly monuments, he will likely become the greatest ever.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He was at least as good in Catalunya as he was in Paris-Nice last year, the same for Liège and Ronde, Sanremo both years as well.

So if this is "base level" without any peak of form, he also didn't peak for the spring last year and rode at base level then.

He usually planned two peaks: spring "larger mass" peak (lasting 6-8 weeks, good for MSR and cobbles), then a long break and then July "smaller mass" peak (optimizing longer climbs). Then form regression after the Tour and mini-peak for Lombardy. This year he actually looked thinner early in the season than in the previous years and the gaps he achieved in races were bigger (which doesn't translate into no spring peak theory). The theory will defend itself only if he's in noticeably better form during the Giro than recently. Otherwise it's just some kind of long peak maintained by a few longer breaks (but not long enough to rest, regress and build again), no idea how they will manage it till the summer.

EDIT: straight from the horse's mouth: I hope that I’m in good shape but I think I can still be a little better but not a lot

 

[Fos]

I think he only loses his form in the first races of September, after the post-Tour rest I suppose he doesn't do intense training to prepare for the end of the year and simply recovers a decent base for Lombardia (but not extraterrestrial).