Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Krzysztof_O]

I think he'll be better in the sense that his level right now isn't what he showed at times during the Tour last year. He just looks better cause nobody here even bothers to try to follow him and instead prefer to sit on a domestique or like the 5th best climber in an already weak Giro field. A little too much emphasis on "looking easy" putting 14 seconds into Dani Martinez to me. Especially when the weather suited him perfectly the last 2 stages.

I think he reached the level comparable to last year's Tour. He might have an even better level in store this year but then again the Giro is far from optimal Tour training.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think he is hiding his true condition. We only had a glimpse of that condition in Livigno.

 

[bNator]

Maybe we, who are willing to deduce, can deduce something from him being apparently in a considerably worse form at the beginning of the Giro. What we see here now may be Pog riding himself into form. If that is so, then he could be even better at the Tour…

 

[BubbaChuck]

Pog level right now is better than in tour last year,but there is nobody to push him.His raid on stage 15 is argubly his best performance ever,considering the elevation and how fresh,he looked after stage.There is no denying pog took step forward and he can hold high tempo for longer than in tour last year.His breathing is very telling.Only real question is,how much damage he can recover after giro and how quickly he can get back for optimal training.Now there is question of heat off course,but even there he should be better,as he ages.Pog comes from cold part of slovenia,lol.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

IMO Pog is gonna crush tour on a insane level and his absolute peak will be in france.i think,that pogacar finally realized,that you cant be both classics guy and than do tour against jonas.Advancement in training and nutrition makes this possible,but you gotta be insanelly precise.basically you live in lab.training and recovery needs to be determined to a cellular level.everything needs to be monitored and here sola comes to play.san milan is very smart guy,his logic about z2 is mostly correct,but he probaly isnot optimal trainer.he works best as team doctor responsible for long term gains.but we will see.

If the forum prophet Mou is right then the whole Giro (except a few minutes here and there) is Z2 for Teddy, who will show his true level at the Tour.

 

[jono]

There is no one in the GC field strong enough to push Pogacar, but today and some of the other mountain stages made clear that nobody is particularly interested in doing so. They are racing cagily, and responding to Pogacar as if he is some breakaway rider long out of it on GC (ie: responding not at all). None of the leaders behind Pog seemed to go particularly deep, besides O'Connor who was dropped quite early, but only lost 40 seconds because those in front were not racing full out, but marking each other..

 

[bNator]

There is no one in the GC field strong enough to push Pogacar, but today and some of the other mountain stages made clear that nobody is particularly interested in doing so. They are racing cagily, and responding to Pogacar as if he is some breakaway rider long out of it on GC (ie: responding not at all). None of the leaders behind Pog seemed to go particularly deep, besides O'Connor who was dropped quite early, but only lost 40 seconds because those in front were not racing full out, but marking each other..

That reads as if Pog was making an effort while they were taking it easy. But anyone who saw the transition from Pog frontal scene to them in today’s broadcast knows it’s the other way around…

 

[jono]

That reads as if Pog was making an effort while they were taking it easy. But anyone who saw the transition from Pog frontal scene to them in today’s broadcast knows it’s the other way around…

I think that was the case when Pogacar first rode away but that group soon settled in and rode their own race, and none seemed particularly close the limit in the last 2km.

I also don't equate affect with effort.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

That reads as if Pog was making an effort while they were taking it easy. But anyone who saw the transition from Pog frontal scene to them in today’s broadcast knows it’s the other way around…

Pogacar has a very specific riding style when he produces a hard effort. Bent above his bike, swinging a bit. Today's acceleration was opposite to it, he easily had another gear left.

 

[BubbaChuck]

I disagree.Which cyclist will blow himself up in order to follow Pog/anyone else.Ben tried it and paid the price.Martinez looked dead after yesterday stage and today looked weak.G is dead.Its a myth,they are saving themselves.thye are at their limit.Even ganna pushed himself to his limit in ITT,while Pog was saving himslef in last part.Only one saving himself is pog.

 

[BigCoward]

You guys should really check how Merckx rode some seasons.

His best season was 2 grand tours and 3 monuments. If pog pulled off the double, 2 monuments and WCRR it would be better.

 

[Red Rick]

Pogacar has a very specific riding style when he produces a hard effort. Bent above his bike, swinging a bit. Today's acceleration was opposite to it, he easily had another gear left.

There's a difference between not going hard, and going hard but being in control of your effort, and then there's not being in control of your effort.

Pogacar has the style where he looks really easy while being at or above threshold for a while.

Compare Foscagno vs the final of Mottolino.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

There's a difference between not going hard, and going hard but being in control of your effort, and then there's not being in control of your effort.

Pogacar has the style where he looks really easy while being at or above threshold for a while.

Compare Foscagno vs the final of Mottolino.

Mottolino was a wall at the end, riders always look like making harder efforts on such gradients. But even on Foscagno Pog looked much more engaged than today in a steep finale.

 

[Cookster15]

Kuss is a weird guy. He looks like an amateur compared to Pog in March, he needs GTs to ride himself into form.
OTOH we have Pogacar, who's been crushing his rivals since early spring, no steady peak building, no form reset period, no nothing. How he's gonna keep his best till the end of the Tour? I have on idea.

Crushing his rivals since spring without going deep. Only on March 2 at Strade Bianchi and April at LBL did Pogacar go deep on long range attacks. This Giro on Oropa it was clear he wasn't stressed and simply stretched his legs to pull 30 secs at the finish. On the TT he conserved himself on the flat then demolished the climb.

As someone who has grown to become a Pogacar fan I am more optimistic about his Tour prospects based upon what we are seeing. He is showing zero signs of stress or fatigue and, if anything, seems to be getting better as this Giro proceeds. In fact he is looking ominously "Mouish"

With the weak field and lack of climbing this Giro I'd be surprised if Pog fades in the 3rd week of the Tour - but I am not saying it won't happen. Also remember whilst picking and choosing when to attack this season, he has been quite restrained with his buildup and racing compared with the last two years.

Its been 26 years since Pantani won the double. Pog looks way better now than any other contender has in those intervening years - including both Contador and Froome.

 

[ice&fire]

I'm waiting for the day when he rides swerving from side to side just to troll those around him.

 

[Netserk]

Mottolino was a wall at the end, riders always look like making harder efforts on such gradients. But even on Foscagno Pog looked much more engaged than today in a steep finale.

When he attacked on Joux Plane, his whole body was rocking:

https://imgur.com/a/lWTOBRE

 

[Valv.Piti]

Pog looks completely dead on the bike compared to this Giro. Heat, better competetion and compromised prep did the work. Completely different facial expression

 

[Krzysztof_O]

When he attacked on Joux Plane, his whole body was rocking:

https://imgur.com/a/lWTOBRE

Exactly this is Pog making a big effort. Probably going close to Z5 for a few minutes, before Vingo caught him.

 

[Netserk]

Pog looks completely dead on the bike compared to this Giro. Heat, better competetion and compromised prep did the work. Completely different facial expression

And he was going faster than Pantani!

 

[Froome]

Exactly this is Pog making a big effort. Probably going close to Z5 for a few minutes, before Vingo caught him.

They were doing 6.45 w/kg during 28 minutes until that moment.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

They were doing 6.45 w/kg during 28 minutes until that moment.

And probably close to 7 w/kg for those few minutes.

 

[Netserk]

They were doing 6.45 w/kg during 28 minutes until that moment.

Above 7 during the attack (more than 5 minutes):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1680576874504679426

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1680576874504679426

 

[Lequack]

You can't underestimate how much heat effects different riders, it can be a huge difference racing in 20C cloudy weather, or 40C scorching heat.
This Giro weather is perfect for cycling, apart from the snow and rain.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

The weak field thing is being overblown. Pogacar and Vingegaard have proven to be far superior to the rest of GC riders in the past years, no Vingegaard here, so not surprising that Pogacar is easily gaining time each time he tries.

It lacks depth compared to the TdF, sure, but the ones behind Pogacar are no slouches. If they were starting as TdF leaders they would be candidates for the Top 5 as well.

Thomas coming into the season could be regarded as number 4. Should have been IMO. He seems to have lost a step, first TT was bad, second decent, but not up to expectations either really. Mountains similar, Thomas a year ago here would finish the stages in second position. But even a Thomas that has lost a step is not necessarily weaker than Mas etc.
Martinez? He's finally back, after the Giro 21 I was sure he'd be a podium contender from 22. Possibly overtaking Bernal at Ineos as well (pre crash, but with his back problems) He then disappeared after the spring 22, only showing up for Algarve twice. Now he's finally back... and is he worse than somebody like Adam Yates? Who last year, after years of not managing to bring the perfomances of his 1 week tours to a GT finally did it. Is this Martinez really weaker than Adam Yates? Or Simon Yates for that matter?
O'Connor, Gall, are we sure Gall is actually better than O'Connor? 8th at the Tour last year, nice, O'Connor was 4th in 21.. last year Gall was better yes, but it's not like they all are the same every year. Had Gall started here he would have started as favorite for the third podium spot like O'Connor did. With the re-emergence of Martinez then he would be number 4.
Arensman looks to repeat his Giro of last year, not much development there, TT stronger, rest a bit shaky.
Tiberi young and new at this high GT level, but certainly doesn't look bad. On the contrary, together with Piganzoli and Pellizarri looks like Italy has already found the solution to its lack of GC riders.

Of course the field is not very strong, ok, weak, but it's more of a depth problem than the level of the ones behind Pogacar. Would have been nice to see Landa or Hindley or Bilbao or Carlos Rodriguez, but well, except for Quick those teams have leaders that fight for the top 5....... Or Simon Yates or whoever. But Vingegaard put 10' into third place at the Tour last year. Only Pogacar is at a similar level, so let's not pretend Pogacar wouldn't have put a similar amount of time into Mas, Gaudu, Landa, Simon Yates, Gall, Carlos Rodriguez, Carapaz etc. Roglic would be closer, most likely. Hopefully in 2026 or so we'll see both Pogacar and Vingegaard attempt the Giro-Tour double.

 

[AmRacer]

The weak field thing is being overblown. Pogacar and Vingegaard have proven to be far superior to the rest of GC riders in the past years, no Vingegaard here, so not surprising that Pogacar is easily gaining time each time he tries.

It lacks depth compared to the TdF, sure, but the ones behind Pogacar are no slouches. If they were starting as TdF leaders they would be candidates for the Top 5 as well.

Thomas coming into the season could be regarded as number 4. Should have been IMO. He seems to have lost a step, first TT was bad, second decent, but not up to expectations either really. Mountains similar, Thomas a year ago here would finish the stages in second position. But even a Thomas that has lost a step is not necessarily weaker than Mas etc.
Martinez? He's finally back, after the Giro 21 I was sure he'd be a podium contender from 22. Possibly overtaking Bernal at Ineos as well (pre crash, but with his back problems) He then disappeared after the spring 22, only showing up for Algarve twice. Now he's finally back... and is he worse than somebody like Adam Yates? Who last year, after years of not managing to bring the perfomances of his 1 week tours to a GT finally did it. Is this Martinez really weaker than Adam Yates? Or Simon Yates for that matter?
O'Connor, Gall, are we sure Gall is actually better than O'Connor? 8th at the Tour last year, nice, O'Connor was 4th in 21.. last year Gall was better yes, but it's not like they all are the same every year. Had Gall started here he would have started as favorite for the third podium spot like O'Connor did. With the re-emergence of Martinez then he would be number 4.
Arensman looks to repeat his Giro of last year, not much development there, TT stronger, rest a bit shaky.
Tiberi young and new at this high GT level, but certainly doesn't look bad. On the contrary, together with Piganzoli and Pellizarri looks like Italy has already found the solution to its lack of GC riders.

Of course the field is not very strong, ok, weak, but it's more of a depth problem than the level of the ones behind Pogacar. Would have been nice to see Landa or Hindley or Bilbao or Carlos Rodriguez, but well, except for Quick those teams have leaders that fight for the top 5....... Or Simon Yates or whoever. But Vingegaard put 10' into third place at the Tour last year. Only Pogacar is at a similar level, so let's not pretend Pogacar wouldn't have put a similar amount of time into Mas, Gaudu, Landa, Simon Yates, Gall, Carlos Rodriguez, Carapaz etc. Roglic would be closer, most likely. Hopefully in 2026 or so we'll see both Pogacar and Vingegaard attempt the Giro-Tour double.

I think you forgot one rider.