Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Froome]

Exactly this is Pog making a big effort. Probably going close to Z5 for a few minutes, before Vingo caught him.

They were doing 6.45 w/kg during 28 minutes until that moment.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

They were doing 6.45 w/kg during 28 minutes until that moment.

And probably close to 7 w/kg for those few minutes.

 

[Netserk]

They were doing 6.45 w/kg during 28 minutes until that moment.

Above 7 during the attack (more than 5 minutes):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1680576874504679426

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1680576874504679426

 

[Lequack]

You can't underestimate how much heat effects different riders, it can be a huge difference racing in 20C cloudy weather, or 40C scorching heat.
This Giro weather is perfect for cycling, apart from the snow and rain.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

The weak field thing is being overblown. Pogacar and Vingegaard have proven to be far superior to the rest of GC riders in the past years, no Vingegaard here, so not surprising that Pogacar is easily gaining time each time he tries.

It lacks depth compared to the TdF, sure, but the ones behind Pogacar are no slouches. If they were starting as TdF leaders they would be candidates for the Top 5 as well.

Thomas coming into the season could be regarded as number 4. Should have been IMO. He seems to have lost a step, first TT was bad, second decent, but not up to expectations either really. Mountains similar, Thomas a year ago here would finish the stages in second position. But even a Thomas that has lost a step is not necessarily weaker than Mas etc.
Martinez? He's finally back, after the Giro 21 I was sure he'd be a podium contender from 22. Possibly overtaking Bernal at Ineos as well (pre crash, but with his back problems) He then disappeared after the spring 22, only showing up for Algarve twice. Now he's finally back... and is he worse than somebody like Adam Yates? Who last year, after years of not managing to bring the perfomances of his 1 week tours to a GT finally did it. Is this Martinez really weaker than Adam Yates? Or Simon Yates for that matter?
O'Connor, Gall, are we sure Gall is actually better than O'Connor? 8th at the Tour last year, nice, O'Connor was 4th in 21.. last year Gall was better yes, but it's not like they all are the same every year. Had Gall started here he would have started as favorite for the third podium spot like O'Connor did. With the re-emergence of Martinez then he would be number 4.
Arensman looks to repeat his Giro of last year, not much development there, TT stronger, rest a bit shaky.
Tiberi young and new at this high GT level, but certainly doesn't look bad. On the contrary, together with Piganzoli and Pellizarri looks like Italy has already found the solution to its lack of GC riders.

Of course the field is not very strong, ok, weak, but it's more of a depth problem than the level of the ones behind Pogacar. Would have been nice to see Landa or Hindley or Bilbao or Carlos Rodriguez, but well, except for Quick those teams have leaders that fight for the top 5....... Or Simon Yates or whoever. But Vingegaard put 10' into third place at the Tour last year. Only Pogacar is at a similar level, so let's not pretend Pogacar wouldn't have put a similar amount of time into Mas, Gaudu, Landa, Simon Yates, Gall, Carlos Rodriguez, Carapaz etc. Roglic would be closer, most likely. Hopefully in 2026 or so we'll see both Pogacar and Vingegaard attempt the Giro-Tour double.

 

[AmRacer]

The weak field thing is being overblown. Pogacar and Vingegaard have proven to be far superior to the rest of GC riders in the past years, no Vingegaard here, so not surprising that Pogacar is easily gaining time each time he tries.

It lacks depth compared to the TdF, sure, but the ones behind Pogacar are no slouches. If they were starting as TdF leaders they would be candidates for the Top 5 as well.

Thomas coming into the season could be regarded as number 4. Should have been IMO. He seems to have lost a step, first TT was bad, second decent, but not up to expectations either really. Mountains similar, Thomas a year ago here would finish the stages in second position. But even a Thomas that has lost a step is not necessarily weaker than Mas etc.
Martinez? He's finally back, after the Giro 21 I was sure he'd be a podium contender from 22. Possibly overtaking Bernal at Ineos as well (pre crash, but with his back problems) He then disappeared after the spring 22, only showing up for Algarve twice. Now he's finally back... and is he worse than somebody like Adam Yates? Who last year, after years of not managing to bring the perfomances of his 1 week tours to a GT finally did it. Is this Martinez really weaker than Adam Yates? Or Simon Yates for that matter?
O'Connor, Gall, are we sure Gall is actually better than O'Connor? 8th at the Tour last year, nice, O'Connor was 4th in 21.. last year Gall was better yes, but it's not like they all are the same every year. Had Gall started here he would have started as favorite for the third podium spot like O'Connor did. With the re-emergence of Martinez then he would be number 4.
Arensman looks to repeat his Giro of last year, not much development there, TT stronger, rest a bit shaky.
Tiberi young and new at this high GT level, but certainly doesn't look bad. On the contrary, together with Piganzoli and Pellizarri looks like Italy has already found the solution to its lack of GC riders.

Of course the field is not very strong, ok, weak, but it's more of a depth problem than the level of the ones behind Pogacar. Would have been nice to see Landa or Hindley or Bilbao or Carlos Rodriguez, but well, except for Quick those teams have leaders that fight for the top 5....... Or Simon Yates or whoever. But Vingegaard put 10' into third place at the Tour last year. Only Pogacar is at a similar level, so let's not pretend Pogacar wouldn't have put a similar amount of time into Mas, Gaudu, Landa, Simon Yates, Gall, Carlos Rodriguez, Carapaz etc. Roglic would be closer, most likely. Hopefully in 2026 or so we'll see both Pogacar and Vingegaard attempt the Giro-Tour double.

I think you forgot one rider.

 

[CyclistAbi]

'The big goal is the Tour and the Worlds' – Tadej Pogačar rules out Grand Tour treble attempt

Slovenian underlines dominance once more on Passo Brocon on 'strange day' at Giro d'Italia

www.cyclingnews.com

Yeah, lets do a double first. This year two and a half riders with realistic chance, that is a chance worth discussing. As for the triple discussions emerging lately, get real.

 

[AmRacer]

'The big goal is the Tour and the Worlds' – Tadej Pogačar rules out Grand Tour treble attempt

Slovenian underlines dominance once more on Passo Brocon on 'strange day' at Giro d'Italia

www.cyclingnews.com

Yeah, lets do a double first. This year two and a half riders with realistic chance, that is a chance worth discussing. As for the triple discussions emerging lately, get real.

The 3 GT monster GC Kuss tried the triple last year.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The 3 GT monster GC Kuss tried the triple last year.

Exactly, won only one.

 

[Cookster15]

When he attacked on Joux Plane, his whole body was rocking:

https://imgur.com/a/lWTOBRE

Pogacar always rocks like that when he attacks. Notice in that video when the camera briefly switches to Vingegaard that we clearly see Vingegaard is also rocking.

Contador also had a distinctive style. Means nothing in the context of this Giro or the double attempt. 7W/Kg is only a lot if maintained for much longer than he showed on Joux Plane. That's why before and after he settled down to 6.2.

 

[Froome]

Pogacar always rocks like that when he attacks. Notice in that video when the camera briefly switches to Vingegaard that we clearly see Vingegaard is also rocking.

Contador also had a distinctive style. Means nothing in the context of this Giro or the double attempt. 7W/Kg is only a lot if maintained for much longer than he showed on Joux Plane. That's why before and after he settled down to 6.2.

They settled down to 6.2 after because they were riding tactically at low pace, not because of lake of strenght.

 

[Cookster15]

Exactly, won only one.

But Kuss isn't Pogacar. The point is if a specialist climber and domestique like Sepp Kuss can finish high on GC for all three grand tours and win the Vuelta then why isn't it possible for a rider of Pogacar's caliber to be a big threat for the double? Especially if Vingegaard can't recover peak form by July.

But if I was a betting man I'd put some money on Roglic

 

[Samu Cuenca]

They settled down to 6.2 after because they were riding tactically at low pace, not because of lake of strenght.

The Lake of Strength is nothing compared to the Sea of Power.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

I think you forgot one rider.

No didn't forget him, just decided not to mention him. But if you insist: Rigoberto Uran. The real GOAT.

 

[Peyroteo94]

There is no one in the GC field strong enough to push Pogacar, but today and some of the other mountain stages made clear that nobody is particularly interested in doing so. They are racing cagily, and responding to Pogacar as if he is some breakaway rider long out of it on GC (ie: responding not at all). None of the leaders behind Pog seemed to go particularly deep, besides O'Connor who was dropped quite early, but only lost 40 seconds because those in front were not racing full out, but marking each other..

It's normal. He is 7 minutes ahead im the GC, how can someone beat him with this disadvantage? Until stage 15, they tried to follow (both in Oropa and Livigno) but soon realized they cannot follow him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pog looks completely dead on the bike compared to this Giro. Heat, better competetion and compromised prep did the work. Completely different facial expression

Mou is that you?

 

[CyclistAbi]

But Kuss isn't Pogacar. The point is if a specialist climber and domestique like Sepp Kuss can finish high on GC for all three grand tours and win the Vuelta then why isn't it possible for a rider of Pogacar's caliber to be a big threat for the double? Especially if Vingegaard can't recover peak form by July.

But if I was a betting man I'd put some money on Roglic

Successful double attempt is something that one must take rather seriously in this day and age, although the chance of happening is rather low, it's the talk about the triple, on how that is a thing now. On how one cyclist will go onto winning the Giro, then the Tour and to finish it off with Vuelta. To get a question from journalist, if you are considering it,and things like that. Until somebody actually secures a double, until then a triple is just some crazy talk.

 

[Cookster15]

Successful double attempt is something that one must take rather seriously in this day and age, although the chance of happening is rather low, it's the talk about the triple, on how that is a thing now. On how one cyclist will go onto winning the Giro, then the Tour and to finish it off with Vuelta. To get a question from journalist, if you are considering it,and things like that. Until somebody actually secures a double, until then a triple is just some crazy talk.

Agree. But I haven’t read anyone seriously suggesting here that the triple is realistic? Excuse if missed that upthread? I think Sepp Kuss was mentioned only to make the point I made above - if Kuss can ride three strong grand tours and win the last one then surely a rider like Pogacar is a genuine chance to win the double?

 

[Salmon Spread]

Agree. But I haven’t read anyone seriously suggesting here that the triple is realistic? Excuse if missed that upthread? I think Sepp Kuss was mentioned only to make the point I made above - if Kuss can ride three strong grand tours and win the last one then surely a rider like Pogacar is a genuine chance to win the double?

Kuss only won because he was on the same team as Roglic and Vingegaard

 

[Cookster15]

Kuss only won because he was on the same team as Roglic and Vingegaard

Sure. But he finished high on GC at he Giro and Tour before that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Agree. But I haven’t read anyone seriously suggesting here that the triple is realistic? Excuse if missed that upthread? I think Sepp Kuss was mentioned only to make the point I made above - if Kuss can ride three strong grand tours and win the last one then surely a rider like Pogacar is a genuine chance to win the double?

In previous reply i gave a link to an article:

'The big goal is the Tour and the Worlds' – Tadej Pogačar rules out Grand Tour treble attempt

Slovenian underlines dominance once more on Passo Brocon on 'strange day' at Giro d'Italia

www.cyclingnews.com

On where Pogi confirms he isn't doing the triple attempt, instead a mere double plus Worlds attempt.

 

[Oldermanish]

Agree. But I haven’t read anyone seriously suggesting here that the triple is realistic? Excuse if missed that upthread? I think Sepp Kuss was mentioned only to make the point I made above - if Kuss can ride three strong grand tours and win the last one then surely a rider like Pogacar is a genuine chance to win the double?

I don't think Kuss' experience last year is any way equivalent to Tadej's current situation. Kuss rode in support on terrain most favorable to him for two of those GTs. The goal was to have impact for your GC leader, then back off to fight another day. His Vuelta win was a piece of well-deserved reward for his prior efforts and should be considered in that light.
Pogacar isn't expecting any gifts in pursuit of the double and he hasn't won the first leg, yet. It's likely he will win the Giro and in fine preparatory shape for the Tour battle. There he will be facing at least one of Jonas' former teammates and a young, recovering Belgian with much he'd want to accomplish. If JV cobbles together a threat that will not be less competition, either.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean maybe in some season, due to some special circumstance involved, somebody actually pulls a GT triple. The question is on how would that be perceived. As the greatest achievement of all time or as a devaluation of GT racing. Hopefully we won't go past the double anytime soon and hopefully a double won't become some sort of norm of a successful season anytime soon.

 

[Sciatic]

In previous reply i gave a link to an article:

'The big goal is the Tour and the Worlds' – Tadej Pogačar rules out Grand Tour treble attempt

Slovenian underlines dominance once more on Passo Brocon on 'strange day' at Giro d'Italia

www.cyclingnews.com

On where Pogi confirms he isn't doing the triple attempt, instead a mere double plus Worlds attempt.

Which has also been called “the triple.”

 

[bNator]

I think that was the case when Pogacar first rode away but that group soon settled in and rode their own race, and none seemed particularly close the limit in the last 2km.

I also don't equate affect with effort.

Well I don’t agree they rode cagily in terms they let him go while settling their own disputes doing their own tempo. Based on their facial expressions, there was not a lot of tactics going on - just full gas racing.

I do agree of course they watch each other much more than they watch Pog, but I wouldn’t exactly say they were cagy. They were cagy on stage 15 IMO.