Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Another blog stated it is his grandmother who died. No clarity, but something has happened in his life😓

But he is in Isola. He put a story on instagram.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Which betting site? There are many. And what are Vingegaard's odds?

22bet. Vingegaard is at 2.75

 

[Fos]

But he is in Isola. He put a story on instagram.

Yes, it seems that today he had some training inside his wooden cottage.

 

[yaf]

But he is in Isola. He put a story on instagram.

If he lost either of his grandparents, hopefully he got over it🙏

 

[yaf]

22bet. Vingegaard is at 2.75

After his dominance in combloux tt he should naturally be the favourite. What he did there was extraordinary. But this year is different with pogis level at the tour

 

[Krzysztof_O]

His odd was 1.30 after the Giro and now is 1.61. It increased a lot

They did but he's still odds-on favourite to win, still a big favourite. It's understandable that Vingo's presence decreased his chances vs one month ago when his participation was doubtful.

 

[Peyroteo94]

They did but he's still odds-on favourite to win, still a big favourite. It's understandable that Vingo's presence decreased his chances vs one month ago when his participation was doubtful.

He still is the big favourite but his odd was similar to the one he had before the Giro. Now he is at 1.61, a lot bigger. This means they don't think it be a walk in the park, similar to what happened in the Giro.

 

[Extinction]

There are some underlying conditions that allowed at least two of them to maintain "form". Another reason why it is presently a difficult task.

The Giro should be doable with the Tour with generational talents, unfortunately performance science has kicked in.

 

[how yes no?]

Without going into the clinic at first chance, here is another reason why double was much more frequent in before 2000s.



Since the end of giro was considerably closer to the start of tour, it was more possible to do it as a single "peak".

 

[yaf]

Without going into the clinic at first chance, here is another reason why double was much more frequent in before 2000s.



Since the end of giro was considerably closer to the start of tour, it was more possible to do it as a single "peak".

Thats why its said pogs attempt this year was carefully planned. He himself said his level will likely improve for the tour suggesting he didn't quite reached his peak in giro. Imagine doing a negative split of 6.9w/kg for 13 minutes on foscagno altitude and it's not ur best level yet🥺

 

[Peyroteo94]

2018 was the year to do Giro-Tour. 6 weeks between them

 

[James M]

Yes, it seems that today he had some training inside his wooden cottage.

at Isola so its comfirmed hes there now?

 

[James M]

José de Cauwer on Pogacar, Vingegaard, Roglic and Evenepoel's Tour: "Pogacar always had a reason for losing the Tour in the past two years. Now he is in top shape"

The Tour de France is starting in just over a week and all analysts are sharp to give their thoughts and analyze the upcoming edition. Whilst perhaps not the top four favourites to win the race, José...

cyclinguptodate.com

 

[Peyroteo94]

at Isola so its comfirmed hes there now?

Yes. He was training yesterday in Isola.

 

[zekance]

2018 was the year to do Giro-Tour. 6 weeks between them

Well we had Froom and Dumoulin try in 2018 with no luck.

Here you can see how many days were between the two GTs when the double was successful:

Fausto Coppi 1949 - 18 days
Fausto Coppi 1952 - 17 days
Jacques Anquetil 1964 - 15 days
Eddy Merckx 1970 - 16 days
Eddy Merckx 1972 - 21 days
Bernard Hinault 1982 - 26 days
Bernard Hinault 1985 - 19 days
Miguel Indurain 1992 - 20 days
Miguel Indurain 1993 - 20 days
Marco Pantani 1998 - 34 days
???Tadej Pogačar 2024 - 34 days???

If history teaches as anything is that when there is more than 3 weeks inbetween Giro and TDF is very hard to win the double. Even if there are 6 weeks inbetween the two that is not enough time for you to rest and than reach your top form again so what you need to do is hold your top form from Giro to the end of TDF.

I'd say it is easier to hold your peak form for 8-9 weeks than it is for 10+.

 

[velaso montador]

Well we had Froom and Dumoulin try in 2018 with no luck.

Here you can see how many days were between the two GTs when the double was successful:

Fausto Coppi 1949 - 18 days
Fausto Coppi 1952 - 17 days
Jacques Anquetil 1964 - 15 days
Eddy Merckx 1970 - 16 days
Eddy Merckx 1972 - 21 days
Bernard Hinault 1982 - 26 days
Bernard Hinault 1985 - 19 days
Miguel Indurain 1992 - 20 days
Miguel Indurain 1993 - 20 days
Marco Pantani 1998 - 34 days
???Tadej Pogačar 2024 - 34 days???

If history teaches as anything is that when there is more than 3 weeks inbetween Giro and TDF is very hard to win the double. Even if there are 6 weeks inbetween the two that is not enough time for you to rest and than reach your top form again so what you need to do is hold your top form from Giro to the end of TDF.

I'd say it is easier to hold your peak form for 8-9 weeks than it is for 10+.

So agree. Always stated the double presents far more issues than X's and O's and history dont lie when its this clear, I believe its far more complicated than many understand. 1 otherwice ppl woulda done it far more ,attempted it i mean by that and 2. ofc been succesful, im curious how much performance wice one loose and I suspect at one point the body just dont recover at the normal rate it usually does and then its just a cripple effect from there..

 

[Elos Anjos]

Well we had Froom and Dumoulin try in 2018 with no luck.

Here you can see how many days were between the two GTs when the double was successful:

Fausto Coppi 1949 - 18 days
Fausto Coppi 1952 - 17 days
Jacques Anquetil 1964 - 15 days
Eddy Merckx 1970 - 16 days
Eddy Merckx 1972 - 21 days
Bernard Hinault 1982 - 26 days
Bernard Hinault 1985 - 19 days
Miguel Indurain 1992 - 20 days
Miguel Indurain 1993 - 20 days
Marco Pantani 1998 - 34 days
???Tadej Pogačar 2024 - 34 days???

If history teaches as anything is that when there is more than 3 weeks inbetween Giro and TDF is very hard to win the double. Even if there are 6 weeks inbetween the two that is not enough time for you to rest and than reach your top form again so what you need to do is hold your top form from Giro to the end of TDF.

I'd say it is easier to hold your peak form for 8-9 weeks than it is for 10+.

I would say there's not enough data to make a conclusion.
And you don't account for the progress in nutrition, recovery, training since the 90s.

 

[Jack_89]

The Dumoulin-Froome attempt wasn't at all a failure. They both finished on the podium fighting for victory ( and Giro win for Froome).

 

[Wyndbrook]

Merckx did the Vuelta/Giro double with a five day gap, not sure what that says other than to demonstrate what a great rider he was.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It is way harder to win Giro-Tour than 30 years ago because they race full gas since day one and we no longer have 150 km of TT and 4 or 5 mountain stages.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Stage 2 will be very interesting. I'm pretty sure Roglic is the only one who can follow Pogi in San Luca and Pogi knows that too IMHO. Can they cooperate and gain 30 seconds on everyone? I hope so

 

[zekance]

Merckx did the Vuelta/Giro double with a five day gap, not sure what that says other than to demonstrate what a great rider he was.

That's nothing. Giovanni Battaglin did the Vuelta/Giro in 1981 with only 3 days inbetween.

 

[zekance]

I would say there's not enough data to make a conclusion.
And you don't account for the progress in nutrition, recovery, training since the 90s.

You could be right and yet we are still waiting for someone to win the Giro/Tour double since the 90s. After WW2 when cycling went global we never had to wait for more than 12 years for someone to win the Giro/Tour double.

After Vuelta got moved in 1995 from April/May to August/September the gap between Giro and Tour expended. Since then only Pantani was able to do it and that was 26 years ago.

 

[Oldermanish]

Merckx did the Vuelta/Giro double with a five day gap, not sure what that says other than to demonstrate what a great rider he was.

And how relatively hard it was for his competition. I don't know what effort went into his Giro but he was characteristically unyielding. The Tour he must have managed in some way to highlight his best opportunities but I don't know anything about those races.
Someone more responsive on race stats could shed light on his gains/losses doing that combo.

 

[Cookster15]

Well we had Froom and Dumoulin try in 2018 with no luck.

Here you can see how many days were between the two GTs when the double was successful:

Fausto Coppi 1949 - 18 days
Fausto Coppi 1952 - 17 days
Jacques Anquetil 1964 - 15 days
Eddy Merckx 1970 - 16 days
Eddy Merckx 1972 - 21 days
Bernard Hinault 1982 - 26 days
Bernard Hinault 1985 - 19 days
Miguel Indurain 1992 - 20 days
Miguel Indurain 1993 - 20 days
Marco Pantani 1998 - 34 days
???Tadej Pogačar 2024 - 34 days???

If history teaches as anything is that when there is more than 3 weeks inbetween Giro and TDF is very hard to win the double. Even if there are 6 weeks inbetween the two that is not enough time for you to rest and than reach your top form again so what you need to do is hold your top form from Giro to the end of TDF.

I'd say it is easier to hold your peak form for 8-9 weeks than it is for 10+.

But Pog wasn't at top form for the Giro - it was a very weak field and he measured his efforts such as the TT. Seems clear to me that UAE have planned this very carefully.