Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Medvind]

Wiggo and Armstrong both agree it has to be within 20-30 seconds for Vingo to stand a chance of a last stage win.

Also think so, but I said what people fear. But a long tt on the last stage after two really hard mountain stages is harder to predict and will probably mean some real time gaps. Will Vinge be stronger than Pog? I'm honestly not sure at all.

 

[James M]

How much the wristinjury effected his build up is hard to say. The year before he showed weakness on Hautacam.
But, If he rode a bit more conservatively he might be just fine in the 3rd week, but that's not really Pog is it?

Pog has the Giro in his legs and Vinge has 6 weeks of prep after a nasty crash...

Why are you talkning about Remco and Pogacar being better (overall) riders than Vinge? No one is disputing that.
When it comes to best GC rider on the other hand...

No real point in discussing this more, let us just watch how it plays out in the mountains.

I like you. You seem reflective and I even feel I sometimes learn something from you some points in a different view since you seem so objective and also good to write it in different views
But @Medvind if Pogacar dont just ride away in the mountains whenever he wants with ease like Ive seen

I will just blame the Giro, never forget that.

(that was kinda a joke btw we should be able to laugh about this stuff its not that deep)

 

[SHAD0W93]

Pogacar about to enlist his secret team.

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[Alpehue]

That remco and roglic clawed that close to the race leaders tells me a lot about the pogi situation. Something happened on the road. We shall find out how serious it is at a later point

Its possible… but it could also just be that neither of them care about Remco/roglic one bit, it looked to me like they only cared about beating the other person which allowed Remco to almost come back.

 

[scribers]

Also think so, but I said what people fear. But a long tt on the last stage after two really hard mountain stages is harder to predict and will probably mean some real time gaps. Will Vinge be stronger than Pog? I'm honestly not sure at all.

People fear pogi just collapsing on any particular stage more than they fear Vingo slam dunking pogi. Both obvious possibilities

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ayuso is such a ***. Saying he would like to win a stage and now he will do what the team wants him to do. But what? He was supposed to ride his own race before yesterday's collapse?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ayuso is such a ***. Saying he would like to win a stage and now he will do what the team wants him to do. But what? He was supposed to ride his own race before yesterday's collapse?

We can't say the word tw@t? English is not my first language and I didn't know it was considered offensive.

 

[jono]

Ayuso is such a ***. Saying he would like to win a stage and now he will do what the team wants him to do. But what? He was supposed to ride his own race before yesterday's collapse?

Do people really believe that every single thing they have criticized about Ayuso to date in this tour are actions of his own choosing and not part of the team plan?

 

[James M]

People fear pogi just collapsing on any particular stage more than they fear Vingo slam dunking pogi. Both obvious possibilities

Yeah for me too I only fear for him the Giro fatigue nothing else.

Vingegaard and Evenpoel need Pogacar to somewhat not be at this best to beat him but that takes us back to the Giro fatigue issue again thats the only real concern. Its a valid concern and understandable aswell as it hasnt been done in modern cycling for a reason.

 

[JosefK]

Pog, I think, was still the strongest rider on stage 11--he just spent way too much time by himself in the front after that Herculean acceleration to gap everyone with 32+ kilometers to go. Vingo chased a bit, but wisely allowed Rog to join him for a long part of the ride. It's hard to know where Pog's energy will be for the Pyrenees at the end of week 2 and for the final tests in week 3. ... Vingo's prep was less than ideal. No guarantees that he'll be superhuman in week 3. The uncertainty makes it more compelling for fans, right now.

 

[theyoungest]

Yeah for me too I only fear for him the Giro fatigue nothing else.

Vingegaard and Evenpoel need Pogacar to somewhat not be at this best to beat him but that takes us back to the Giro fatigue issue again thats the only real concern. Its a valid concern and understandable aswell as it hasnt been done in modern cycling for a reason.

Winning two GTs in succession is perfectly possible in modern cycling. Vingegaard showed it just last year. It's only team orders that prevented him from winning the second.

Why does Vingegaard need Pogacar to be off his best though? He's a twice Tour winner... against Pogacar.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'm excited for this weekend. Momentum is on Vingegaard's side but last year people were saying Pogacar was number one favourite to win the Tour after Puy de Dome and then he completely exploded in the third week.

 

[James M]

Winning two GTs in succession is perfectly possible in modern cycling. Vingegaard showed it just last year. It's only team orders that prevented him from winning the second.

Why does Vingegaard need Pogacar to be off his best though? He's a twice Tour winner... against Pogacar.

Lets not go into that its pointless. For the same reason Almeida is not a better GC rider than roglic if he beats him this TDF after today think that goes without saying why.

 

[theyoungest]

Lets not go into that its pointless. For the same reason Almeida is not a better GC rider than roglic if he beats him this TDF after today think that goes without saying why.

For last year Pogacar had somewhat of an excuse, although he really wasn't off the bike for that long after his crash in April. But for 2022?

But as you say, a pointless discussion, since Pogi fans just won't accept that maybe, just maybe, he isn't the unbeatable Superman they think he is.

 

[Le Grand Doop]

For last year Pogacar had somewhat of an excuse, although he really wasn't off the bike for that long after his crash in April. But for 2022?

But as you say, a pointless discussion, since Pogi fans just won't accept that maybe, just maybe, he isn't the unbeatable Superman they think he is.

he is the best overall, for sure.

he is not as good at recovery as Vingo.

most often, not always (and less so in modern times), a GT rewards best recovery.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Probably you are right. But could anyone remind the case of Pogacar racing smart? It's mostly about 2 scenarios: tearing the opposition apart and completely tearing himself as it happened on Granon and Courchevel. I fail to remember any middle way. He's completely not adapted to this type of racing and I suspect mastering it is way harder for him that it seems.
For sure Pogacar is Pogacar, and no one will get astonished if yesterday's stage will turn out his lowest point in the entire Tour. Nonetheless, not a good sign for him. I presume he's a bit of shocked. Getting caught and losing sprint is what really occurs to him rarely.

Tbh, he did ride smart during stage 6 last year, when he took 20 secs to Jonas. He wheel-sucked until the last 3km to finish.

 

[James M]

@Lequack Are you the one deciding the name thread here like big balls @Samu Cuenca is?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Someone should say to Pogacar. If you are not dropped, you will win the Tour so just follow Vingegaard and you are only allowed to attack inside the last km. If (a big if) Vingegaard can't drop Pogacar he will lose more 15 seconds at least so Pogacar will have a 1:30 minutes before the TT.

 

[velaso montador]

Its not pogacar memo and who he is and he wouldnt be recognized as the goat by many already in age 25 if he was like that, part of why he is so special and strong. He is a cannibal, you shouldnt be afraid noone will be able to match him this weekend there havent even been a MTF yet.

Only a crash will stop him you just have ptsd from memories when he was hurt you shouldnt it will all be well. Giro doesnt even matter anymore even tho he lose some % its not enough to not win. All should be good in Teddy land.. Crash is what can stop him.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Tomorrow is a big stage, and finishing with a hard last 3kms, there should be something there.

But stage 15 is even harder so I think it will still be measured (for the GC guys) unless one of them cracks.

 

[Cookster15]

For last year Pogacar had somewhat of an excuse, although he really wasn't off the bike for that long after his crash in April. But for 2022?

But as you say, a pointless discussion, since Pogi fans just won't accept that maybe, just maybe, he isn't the unbeatable Superman they think he is.

I recall in 2022 Pogacar blew himself up on Granon riding stupid. He then wore himself out trying to attack every time there was a mountain to recover that time loss - starting the following day on AdH.

I think Vingo is now incredibly (after his injuries) the favourite but just maybe Vingegaard isn't the unbeatable Superman his fans seem to think he is? We will see.

 

[jono]

Winning two GTs in succession is perfectly possible in modern cycling. Vingegaard showed it just last year. It's only team orders that prevented him from winning the second.

Why does Vingegaard need Pogacar to be off his best though? He's a twice Tour winner... against Pogacar.

I do think Vingegaard can, and obviously has, beaten Pogacar at his best, or close to. One difference is that this the first tour where Pogacar has the stronger team. Does that matter for two riders so far ahead of all the rest? I'm not smart enough to say.

 

[topt]

Winning two GTs in succession is perfectly possible in modern cycling. Vingegaard showed it just last year. It's only team orders that prevented him from winning the second.

Why does Vingegaard need Pogacar to be off his best though? He's a twice Tour winner... against Pogacar.

crap, Rogla was better

 

[42x16ss]

I recall in 2022 Pogacar blew himself up on Granon riding stupid. He then wore himself out trying to attack every time there was a mountain to recover that time loss - starting the following day on AdH.

I think Vingo is now incredibly (after his injuries) the favourite but just maybe Vingegaard isn't the unbeatable Superman his fans seem to think he is? We will see.

Regardless, for the third year in a row Pogacar will not win racing the way he has been. Too much spent in the first week, and too many impatient attacks. If Pogacar showed some patience like Vingegaard this would be a demolition job.

 

[Cookster15]

If Pogacar showed some patience like Vingegaard this would be a demolition job.

Totally agree. Sadly I think its maybe not in his temperament because I find him infinitely more entertaining to watch than Vingegaard who ironically shows the patience Pog lacks.