Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[vwpe]

Insane numbers.
Even though least impressive sure among the other but at Col d'Eze basically 8w/kg for 4min at the end of the Giro- Tour double and at the end of the stage.

stage 15 aka the best climbing performance of all time: he did 7.27W/kg for 40min! at the end of that hard stage in the heat haha dude is a xxxxx monster.

Its just what weve seen his treshold is just so much better he can ride away with ease almost on every mountain we saw it before stage 15 too so no surprise at all they simple cant sustain the numbers he can for any amount before blowing up!

Power Analysis: Pogačar's Power Numbers Are the Highest We've Ever Seen in Professional Cycling

In this column, we dive into the power numbers of Tadej Pogačar, Jonas Vingegaard, and more at the Tour de France.

velo.outsideonline.com

While it is the best numbers in history and his FTP is out of this world im not sure people are ready for this.

I have it from several people in cycling that its even hard to judge his max from a competitor standpoint as he wasnt ever in red and max out some people say and in fact has more watts, how much its hard to know.

 

[vwpe]

But its easy to tell for everyone that his climbing is next level from anyone in history and that he most likely only will get better vs the rest as he has more room for improvement is a scary thought.

He is just as the youth says the goat, dont think you will find anyone inside cycling today who wont immidiately say Pogacar.

 

[Oldermanish]

I am going to get a lot of hate for this but putting the Olympics at the same level with a GT or even a monument is Rubbish.

Let's do this simple exercise. Pick 10 riders and ask them if they would trade, not the Tour, but a Vuelta or a Giro for the Olympic gold? and record their answers.

I understand that in some countries the gold is very important like Ecuador and Colombia, but even there, there is no comparison. Some people would want to make it look like it is very, very important, but simply put, they would choose a GT. Hec, I would choose the rainbow jersey for that matter.

Pogi, do you want to go in history and do the double with the Olympics, or do you want to do the double with the WC?
I think He already decided.

You can ask athletes of almost any sport and they mostly acknowledge the WC as the pinnacle of the competitive effort; particularly in head to head events like track, WC Football, alpine skiing, etc. They occur annually and generally reward a great season of prep and athletes can control their access without ruining 4 years of a career, especially when arbitrary national federations make selections. The Olympics occur every 4 years and some events, like cycling are subjects of available team talent and occasionally vague team alliances that skew results. Individual talent can get lost in the event quickly.
The Olympics are the biggest payday for emerging talent, niche sports (figure skating, gymnastics) or for someone that has already won a WC and wants to burnish a reputation before they retire (NBA) and get endorsement value.
Cycling's WC RR is not an easy win unless your country is stacked with talent and they all play to win. Spain has that reputation and Italy is noteworthy for less dedication. It can be a very hard event to win and IMO riders know that.
Monuments occupy a different status (also MO) because they tend to define more specific talents. Most riders capable of winning PR would definitely hold that as pre eminent. You will be remembered for winning MSR and others by fans and peers forever. Most couldn't recite the Olympic TT winner past the most recent event unless it was their country.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

I am going to get a lot of hate for this but putting the Olympics at the same level with a GT or even a monument is Rubbish.

Let's do this simple exercise. Pick 10 riders and ask them if they would trade, not the Tour, but a Vuelta or a Giro for the Olympic gold? and record their answers.

I understand that in some countries the gold is very important like Ecuador and Colombia, but even there, there is no comparison. Some people would want to make it look like it is very, very important, but simply put, they would choose a GT. Hec, I would choose the rainbow jersey for that matter.

Pogi, do you want to go in history and do the double with the Olympics, or do you want to do the double with the WC?
I think He already decided.

Hm, I think the Olympic road race has gained a lot of prestige since it's open for pros, it's not like when Pascal Richard won and nobody really cared. Mathieu Van der Poel did a Tour similar to the one in 2023. Why? In 23 preparing for Glasgow. What do you think he's preparing now? Zürich in 2 month? No, he's sacrificed Tour stage chances for the second year in a row, to be at the top in early August. So I wouldn't be too sure that all these 10 cyclists wouldn't trade a monument for the Olympics. A Giro or a Vuelta, different thing

Pogacar not going most likely 3 reasons, not necessarily in this order:
1 Tired
2 The route is not really for him, the plan probably was more to help Mohoric anyway
3 Girlfriend trouble

As for Zürich, I really don't see the route as all that favorable to him there either, seems a bit on the easy side, but we'll see.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

I think Pogacar is unquestionable the most popular rider in the peloton thats just a fact nothing else.

What is the fact? The "I think" part or the what follows? If it's what I fear, maybe adding "I think" wasn't the best way to start? Makes it sound like you didn't think actually. Be that as it may, seems highly speculative and highly irrelevant. Rominger was pretty much hated in the peloton, he still did what he wanted.

 

[James M]

What is the fact? The "I think" part or the what follows? If it's what I fear, maybe adding "I think" wasn't the best way to start? Makes it sound like you didn't think actually. Be that as it may, seems highly speculative and highly irrelevant. Rominger was pretty much hated in the peloton, he still did what he wanted.

Sorry i meant from the peloton. That he was the most popular rider in cycling.

 

[Escarabajo]

Hm, I think the Olympic road race has gained a lot of prestige since it's open for pros, it's not like when Pascal Richard won and nobody really cared. Mathieu Van der Poel did a Tour similar to the one in 2023. Why? In 23 preparing for Glasgow. What do you think he's preparing now? Zürich in 2 month? No, he's sacrificed Tour stage chances for the second year in a row, to be at the top in early August. So I wouldn't be too sure that all these 10 cyclists wouldn't trade a monument for the Olympics. A Giro or a Vuelta, different thing

Pogacar not going most likely 3 reasons, not necessarily in this order:
1 Tired
2 The route is not really for him, the plan probably was more to help Mohoric anyway
3 Girlfriend trouble

As for Zürich, I really don't see the route as all that favorable to him there either, seems a bit on the easy side, but we'll see.

MVDP is a very bad example because He didn't win the Tour and has no chance of winning it any time soon. The Olympic makes a lot of sense for him.

 

[Berniece]

As for Zürich, I really don't see the route as all that favorable to him there either, seems a bit on the easy side, but we'll see.

273km's and 4500 meters in altitude? That alone makes it a race for a select few of which Pogacar is one. Not to mention that the climb has sections of up to 18%

 

[Miha81]

And while I don't think Urska being snubbed was the sole reason, there's definitely something amiss with regards to his relation to the National team, I remember a few years ago already reading how there are different camps within the federation. His message on instagram also reads a bit cold and maybe a slight snub regarding the federation.

The recent sucess of Slovenian men's cycling especially Rogla and Pog but also Mohoric and some other guys prompted appetites inside national cycling association. Some "old guns" returned when they smelled the money and this lead to internal fight and some changes (not necessary for the better).

By seeing women's selector's choice to send his 37 year old business (rumored also "private") partner to Olympics rubbed whole lot of people wrong way.

It was not a big deal since Slovenian women's cycling is few levels lower than men's but since Pog is somehow involved it is news of the day. Hopefully public will get to know what the return of "old guns" with mentality dating back in ex-Yugoslavia can do to this sport in Slovenia.

Only luck future generations have is that sport is becoming increasingly internationalized and young talents from these parts can find fine teams abroad at relatively young age (which was not a case few decades ago).

 

[Peyroteo94]

Roglic is not even close in popularity compared to Pogi in countries like Portugal, Spain, France and Italy.
I would love to see him in Portugal to start the Vuelta. I will be there but now I'm a little bit disappointed despite having riders like Roglic, Almeida and Yates racing it.

 

[James M]

The coronation is full underway. Cant go anywhere on social media or internett without see people popping up saying stuff.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PrsDAkGhb4

 

[scribers]

You can ask athletes of almost any sport and they mostly acknowledge the WC as the pinnacle of the competitive effort; particularly in head to head events like track, WC Football, alpine skiing, etc. They occur annually and generally reward a great season of prep and athletes can control their access without ruining 4 years of a career, especially when arbitrary national federations make selections. The Olympics occur every 4 years and some events, like cycling are subjects of available team talent and occasionally vague team alliances that skew results. Individual talent can get lost in the event quickly.
The Olympics are the biggest payday for emerging talent, niche sports (figure skating, gymnastics) or for someone that has already won a WC and wants to burnish a reputation before they retire (NBA) and get endorsement value.
Cycling's WC RR is not an easy win unless your country is stacked with talent and they all play to win. Spain has that reputation and Italy is noteworthy for less dedication. It can be a very hard event to win and IMO riders know that.
Monuments occupy a different status (also MO) because they tend to define more specific talents. Most riders capable of winning PR would definitely hold that as pre eminent. You will be remembered for winning MSR and others by fans and peers forever. Most couldn't recite the Olympic TT winner past the most recent event unless it was their country.

In most federations the olympics is a bigger goal than a worlds championship. Cycling is different in that it has a rich world championship history and is coveted. Being a professional sport, the pros were not allowed to compete for a large part of its history. So the answer is complicated and narrow to cycling itself.

 

[pihi42]

Eddy did the Giro/Tour/WC triple, Teddy wants it.

 

[chris_sssss]

Sorry i meant from the peloton. That he was the most popular rider in cycling.

He is the most popular and the most hated rider in the peleton - from praising him as the goat of cycling to rejecting him in every aspect because he kills cycling we can read everything about him in these days...this is more or less normal after such a TDF

 

[ManicJack]

In most federations the olympics is a bigger goal than a worlds championship. Cycling is different in that it has a rich world championship history and is coveted. Being a professional sport, the pros were not allowed to compete for a large part of its history. So the answer is complicated and narrow to cycling itself.

USAC's rider development budget is very much centered around Olympic medals.

 

[Taxus4a]

Roglic is not even close in popularity compared to Pogi in countries like Portugal, Spain, France and Italy.
I would love to see him in Portugal to start the Vuelta. I will be there but now I'm a little bit disappointed despite having riders like Roglic, Almeida and Yates racing it.

I think he is quite popular, at least in Spain, Pogacar is an historic rider, is different, Rogic is a freat rider and is popular, but he is no so marvellous as other. He is an strong rider in all terrains, very regular, but he is not so impressive like other in this generation, just that. similar to evenepoel for a stage race, but Evenepoel could make a super ITT, or to go solo after am samll climb for a lot of flat km, or something similar that impress.

 

[chris_sssss]

I think he is quite popular, at least in Spain, Pogacar is an historic rider, is different, Rogic is a freat rider and is popular, but he is no so marvellous as other. He is an strong rider in all terrains, very regular, but he is not so impressive like other in this generation, just that. similar to evenepoel for a stage race, but Evenepoel could make a super ITT, or to go solo after am samll climb for a lot of flat km, or something similar that impress.

There is a very strong fan-community around Primoz, yes. And not many haters. Only people that doubt his abilty to stay on the bike...but tha´s a topic even within his fanbase...

 

[scribers]

He is the most popular and the most hated rider in the peleton - from praising him as the goat of cycling to rejecting him in every aspect because he kills cycling we can read everything about him in these days...this is more or less normal after such a TDF

Barring dramatic changes from mishap, he is very likely to become much more dominant across as many as the next 6-8 seasons. We are about 5 months into this. The previous years don't count as pogi could occasionally be overcome by some competitors.

The question is, just how much more polarizing will he become and to what end of the spectrum.

 

[Monte Serra]

If it was Rio course he would do the Olympics too though I assume

They should have just had an Olympic time trial up to Planche de Belle Filles. Pretty sure Pog would have showed for that one. That course would also been good for Urška.

 

[hayneplane]

I am going to get a lot of hate for this but putting the Olympics at the same level with a GT or even a monument is Rubbish.

Let's do this simple exercise. Pick 10 riders and ask them if they would trade, not the Tour, but a Vuelta or a Giro for the Olympic gold? and record their answers.

I understand that in some countries the gold is very important like Ecuador and Colombia, but even there, there is no comparison. Some people would want to make it look like it is very, very important, but simply put, they would choose a GT. Hec, I would choose the rainbow jersey for that matter.

Pogi, do you want to go in history and do the double with the Olympics, or do you want to do the double with the WC?
I think He already decided.

Simple question - do you think Carapaz is better known for being Olympic champion or winning the Giro.

 

[hayneplane]

You can ask athletes of almost any sport and they mostly acknowledge the WC as the pinnacle of the competitive effort; particularly in head to head events like track, WC Football, alpine skiing, etc. They occur annually and generally reward a great season of prep and athletes can control their access without ruining 4 years of a career, especially when arbitrary national federations make selections. The Olympics occur every 4 years and some events, like cycling are subjects of available team talent and occasionally vague team alliances that skew results. Individual talent can get lost in the event quickly.
The Olympics are the biggest payday for emerging talent, niche sports (figure skating, gymnastics) or for someone that has already won a WC and wants to burnish a reputation before they retire (NBA) and get endorsement value.
Cycling's WC RR is not an easy win unless your country is stacked with talent and they all play to win. Spain has that reputation and Italy is noteworthy for less dedication. It can be a very hard event to win and IMO riders know that.
Monuments occupy a different status (also MO) because they tend to define more specific talents. Most riders capable of winning PR would definitely hold that as pre eminent. You will be remembered for winning MSR and others by fans and peers forever. Most couldn't recite the Olympic TT winner past the most recent event unless it was their country.

Way off the mark. Olympics is head and shoulders above the worlds for Athletics and Alpine Skiing.

Football for sure the Olympics is largely a sideshow but for almost every sport in the Olympics the Olympics is the pinnacle achievement.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Time to say:
3 out of 5
LBL check
Giro check
Tour check
WC
Lombardia

 

[Oldermanish]

Way off the mark. Olympics is head and shoulders above the worlds for Athletics and Alpine Skiing.

Football for sure the Olympics is largely a sideshow but for almost every sport in the Olympics the Olympics is the pinnacle achievement.

Diamond league pays almost all the bills along with Nike/Adidas for track athletes. An Olympics every 4 years is good for the one Gold medalist. Almost no one else gets a big pay bump. Alpine skiing even more so. You get a medal...great. Your sponsors are paying you to be on TV with their gear and the good skiers get exposure. Skiing broadcasting in particular is dedicated to mostly Mikaela, all the time. Abbreviated highlights are what the rest get from NBC but maybe a little better in the huge Austrian broadcast market. The Gold medalists in those sports almost always have made a ton in both endorsement, money and personal/professional recognition before the Olympics. There are few Vonns and Shiffrins.

As for Tadej; if he's tired and doesn't win it; what does that do for his marketability? Actually, very little. Personal satisfaction and professional recognition? Those questions have already been answered by him. He's going to Worlds!

 

[Oldermanish]

Simple question - do you think Carapaz is better known for being Olympic champion or winning the Giro.

He's have to answer that. Among his peers: the Giro. Among what media he might get in the runup to an event; the Olympic Medal might come up. The fact that no huge dominance has come from his since I'd bet his current EF paycheck comes from.....his UCI rankings and diddly from Olympic past. These guys are professionals making paydays, first. Heroes or wannabes can come along with continued results in cycling where a couple of bad races and you can become an afterthought. Same as track and field.

 

[Oldermanish]

In most federations the olympics is a bigger goal than a worlds championship. Cycling is different in that it has a rich world championship history and is coveted. Being a professional sport, the pros were not allowed to compete for a large part of its history. So the answer is complicated and narrow to cycling itself.

You are so right on most federations that have small exposure. The importance becomes as much about sustaining the federation than eventual fostering of extraordinary talent. It's similar to the entire OAC in that respect. Federations, facilitators are usual beneficiaries while athletes can be totally stiffed. Hence the possible response about Tadej's partner. We don't know, do we?
You also make a good case of Alpine and Nordic skiing as the legends tend to be revered as opposed to being quickly monetized and discarded. They are also extremely difficult sports to excel and consistency can be the best reward.
That could also pose a question about cycling in the current hyper-polarized fandom that's come from social media. Blocks of loyal fans often are quick to denigrate and discard seriously successful, hard working cyclists in favor of their flavor of year rider. Hard work may be less revered because it is becoming generationally rare? Is it because of the influx of new fans or the easy opportunity to voice an opinion? From a promotional standpoint it can be a successful market increase for a sponsor or an immediate load of baggage they'll shed. Sponsors aren't as loyal because their markets fluctuate do to e-commerce. I may be getting off track (or the planet) but cycling has made technological and physiological advances but still has that veneer of traditional reverence for fair play and dedication. Not sure new fans give 2 sh*ts about that stuff.