Let’s not introduce fact based evidence in this conversation. Dispassionate speculation with a doubtful slant only please
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Let’s not introduce fact based evidence in this conversation. Dispassionate speculation with a doubtful slant only please
CavendishRoglic came to the sport late having switched from ski jumping. The big exception to longevity was Valverde.
Yeah, Valverde was at his best for 15 years. The best? Not really, maybe in hilly classics from 2006 to 2009 and 2014 to 2018.
Yeah, Valverde was at his best for 15 years. The best? Not really, maybe in hilly classics from 2006 to 2009 and 2014 to 2018.
It doesn't matter if Pogacar is at his best when he is 36 years old but can't win important races, just podiums.
The best in the peloton.I thought you meant 'the best' relative to his own level.
Funnily enough most cyclists tend to do well still at shorter time trials, shorter mountain stages at an older age than longer. Where as most sports it’s the oppositePhysically humans are top around 25, after that a very slow decline sets in. Between 40-45 decline will accelerate. However experience can make humans more effective, negating slow physical decline or even making sporters ride better after 25: knowing your body, what training works, what nutrition works,...
Also some aspects decline faster then others. Explosiveness and sense of balance will go faster then durability.
But that's for normal humans.
Topsport puts an incredible strain on body and mind. Injuries can reduce body functions. And al humans cope differently.
So I dont think it's pure motivation. Some sporters just decline.
Also sacrifices can be harder to do when the results decline slightly, for those lucky enough to age gently . Without the records of TDF stages, what would have kept Marc Cavendish going? Doing all that effort for a few victories a year, where it used to be plenty? He would have retired earlier is my guess.
Will pog still ride if he is no longer a TDF winner but maybe can do a Vuelta or Giro? Will those records motivate him? Let's say he had wone 5 TDF, 2 Giro and 2 Vuelta, will a slight chance at another vuelta inspire him?
That's why in my opinion lot's of top sporters just dont find the motivation to continue
Luckily science and medicine have allowed sporters to compete longer these days, Ronaldo, Messi, Lebron, Jimmy Anderson all defying age, but besides Anderson, all of those have declined slowly.
This is the difference for Pogacar. In order to be the GOAT, Pogacar will need to be the best rider in the world IMHO.Valverde was never the best in the peloton. He was the best in a race, a lot of time. Early, middle, and late career the best in a lot of races.
I disagree, I always found him one of the best, and most of the time the best in the peloton. When they asked Tom Boonen who was the best rider in the peloton during those years, he always says Valverde.Valverde was never the best in the peloton. He was the best in a race, a lot of time. Early, middle, and late career the best in a lot of races.
I think Movistar was pretty good compared to other teams during Valverde's career. I can be persuaded. In terms of Valverde being the best, for some reason we are dancing around in this thread to peyote's flute. And the song is unprovable ideas with strawman distractions.I disagree, I always found him one of the best, and most of the time the best in the peloton. When they asked Tom Boonen who was the best rider in the peloton during those years, he always says Valverde.
You seem to be forgetting that this guy got such a palmares while riding at MOVISTAR. Can you imagine him riding at a proper team?
He always lived in Contador's shadow during his best years. He was expecting to be the next Indurain (GT material) but he always failed in the Tour, specially in 2006 (he DNS) and 2007. Contador emerged in 2007 and since there he was Spain's favourite, something Valverde never liked.I disagree, I always found him one of the best, and most of the time the best in the peloton. When they asked Tom Boonen who was the best rider in the peloton during those years, he always says Valverde.
You seem to be forgetting that this guy got such a palmares while riding at MOVISTAR. Can you imagine him riding at a proper team?
What do you mean by in his shadow? Purely in GC's for GT's, Contador was the better rider, and that's it. But cycling is bigger than the GC in a GT. Which is why you see Valverde at the top of many end-of-year rankings, and why Tom Boonen would say he's the best rider of his generation, and not Contador.He always lived in Contador's shadow during his best years. He was expecting to be the next Indurain (GT material) but he always failed in the Tour, specially in 2006 (he DNS) and 2007. Contador emerged in 2007 and since there he was Spain's favourite, something Valverde never liked.
Tom Boonen is just another guy with an opinion which should not count more as any other (from the pool of cycling insiders). If anything, it’s understandable he would rate Valverde higher than Contador, he himself being a classics rider and therefore probably valuing classics a bit more.What do you mean by in his shadow? Purely in GC's for GT's, Contador was the better rider, and that's it. But cycling is bigger than the GC in a GT. Which is why you see Valverde at the top of many end-of-year rankings, and why Tom Boonen would say he's the best rider of his generation, and not Contador.
I thought that in this topic, the opinion of other ex-riders was the most important one, even if we neglect every ranking where Valverde is on top.Tom Boonen is just another guy with an opinion which should not count more as any other (from the pool of cycling insiders). If anything, it’s understandable he would rate Valverde higher than Contador, he himself being a classics rider and therefore probably valuing classics a bit more.
To be honest, after the 2022 and 2023 TdFs I was beginning to wonder if Pogacar had peaked for grand tours already. Then 2024 happened.Pogacar entered his prime in 2020 so this is his 5th season. Hardly anyone in cycling history had 10 seasons in his prime. For Pogacar his 10th will be at the age of 30/31. How good Pogacar can be after turning 30 yo is a good question IMO, no guarantees there. Not saying he won't be winning anymore but he can become considerably weaker than in his best seasons. Physical and mental decline after so many seasons at the top can't be neglected.
Yeah, but there is a big problem. Soon or later, a new generation of riders appear and get better than Pogacar and the other best guys.Modern medicine and training methods in a sport where riders were always pretty good into their mid 30s.
Seriously it's not even a question Pogacar can be a high level into his mid to late 30s.
Unless it doesn’t and Pog gets to be the GOAT.Yeah, but there is a big problem. Soon or later, a new generation of riders appear and get better than Pogacar and the other best guys.
Unless it doesn’t and Pog gets to be the GOAT.
You can keep dreaming, it's something free someone thinking Merckx is achievable.Unless it doesn’t and Pog gets to be the GOAT.
Well, if nothing else, I’ll always be able to take some consolation in how he destroyed Vingegaard in 2024😉You can keep dreaming, it's something free someone thinking Merckx is achievable.
He humiliated him and whole arrogant Visma teamWell, if nothing else, I’ll always be able to take some consolation in how he destroyed Vingegaard in 2024😉