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Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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yaf said:
I agree that with his crash in basque the level ving showed at the tour is nothing short of remarkable & i have a lot of respect for that but if we look back to pogs 2023 crash & compare it with vings crash this year, ving had extra 3 weeks more to prepare for the tour. Ving rode outdoor for the 1st time on may 7 whereas pog rode for the 1st time on may 27. Considering these situations pog competed better and was mostly stronger in the 1st 2 weeks in 2023 tour but this year ving was constantly getting beaten(except stage 11) while doing career best watts. But saying all that both showed the last 2 years that they are super talents of this generation
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But I never said Pogi's crash didn't hamper him for the 2023 Tour.
 
Peyroteo94

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yaf said:
But if u agreed to my statement i expected u to put also pogs performance in 2023 into ur perspective(not only vings come back of this year) when determining what is gonna happen in 2025
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Yes and I really think Pogi would win the Tour without his crash in LBL. His ceilling was higher than Vingegaard IMHO. In 2022, I really think Vingegaard was stronger, he never really got hurt by Pogacar's attacks.
 
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snipeheem

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Peyroteo94 said:
No mate. In my opinion you are underestimating Vingegaard. I still remember he had an awful crash 12 weeks before the Tour. Saying Vingegaard is a threat and can compete mano a mano with Pogi is not saying anything negative about Pogacar.
I think Vingegaard can beat Pogacar again and you are free to disagree.
But one thing I am sure is: the gap between the best GT rider (Pogi) and the second best (Vingegaard) is smaller (and by a significant margin) than the gap between the best one day rider and the second best (MVP or Remco. In my opinion is MVP).
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There is zero chance that vingegaard will beat Pogi again, that train is gone. The next 4-5 years nobody will beat GOAT. New coach , new bike , new nutrition, everything is diffrent. Pogacar is going to Enter the realm of greatness across the whole sports world.
 
James M

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snipeheem said:
There is zero chance that vingegaard will beat Pogi again, that train is gone. The next 4-5 years nobody will beat GOAT. New coach , new bike , new nutrition, everything is diffrent. Pogacar is going to Enter the realm of greatness across the whole sports world.
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But he lost that one time he had and rode with a broken wrist, no altitude or anything:sweatsmile: its crazy. Im not sure everyone understand 3 months is usually along time in cycling, look at Crass same time crash but even worse and was at his best at the Tour its many more examples, many with that time frame when you have that time and line up with alitude, and they all said they was at their best so whats ppl even dreaming up is wild guessing game based on nothing.

Besides all that who cares i certaintly dont only a few selective seems to do so, I dont at all since its not like the numbers are even remotely close if they where maybe i would entertain this but as it is its just crazy talk for me as how far off it is.
 
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James M

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Cookster15 said:
Yes, but sometimes a little too negative about Pogacar's prospects IMO. Always talking up Vingegaard and downplaying Pogi. That's why you have been forced to remind us you are a Pogi fan. Surely 2024 erased all doubts? Of course we all wait for the 2025 rematch when both will be optimally prepared but based upon what we saw this season I can't see the best ever Vingegaard getting near Pogacar fresh with no Giro in his legs.
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Preach again from you, just keeping it real! Ofc not goes without saying, unless Pogacar is not 100% anything else is the same as hoping for a miracle to beat him if were keeping it real -If he somewhat isnt 100% then sure if not forget it.

And honestly dont think everyone fully understand the level and numbers he has when they entertain it even, and fully understand what they just watched and the gravity of it.
If they watched the WC (which i still have a hard time to comprehend how he did it vs who and entire nations) Lombardia and Tour - every mountains (numbers etc) and conclude with its gonne be tight next year I mean whats even the point to try and debate em thats just imo.

The numbers never lie my friend and its not even remotely close. In my opinion its just nonsense and dull guessing game based on absolutely nothing but copium from 1-2 person, who cares its degradative at this point imo since how far off the numbers are.
 
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snipeheem

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James M said:
But he lost that one time he had and rode with a broken wrist, no altitude or anything:sweatsmile: its crazy. Im not sure everyone understand 3 months is usually along time in cycling, look at Crass same time crash but even worse and was at this best at the Tour its many more examples when you have that time and line up with alitude, and they all said they was at their best so whats ppl even dreaming up is wild guessing game based on nothing.

Besides all that its not like the numbers are remotely close if they where maybe i would entertain this but as it is its just crazy for me
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I am close to believe that the gap will be bigger the next year that it was this year
 
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yaf

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snipeheem said:
I am close to believe that the gap will be bigger the next year that it was this year
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Yep, sola himself said he has never seen an athlete who improves so fast the way pog did & said he might have been touched by a magic wand. Recently Ving said to the denish media that he didn't have the same watts in the tour that he had prior to his crash which is a contradicting statement to what he was saying on pdb stage where he said he did his best ever watts. He doesn't want to accept pogs dominance since he was 2022&23 tdf champion & he believes he is the best which is good for the sport & the competition but i'm afraid he will learn it the hard way in 2025 when pog treats him the way he treated martinez in giro
 
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Cookster15

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hayneplane said:
Not so sure about that. Think he went deep on PdB.

That said I reckon he was hoping for Vingegaard to attack halfway up the Bonette to tee up an even more epic win.
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Maybe. But did you miss the moment on Vingegaard’s wheel on PdB when he sat up no hands to take a drink? Didn’t look like he was at his limit at all? Shortly after that moment he counter attacked.

I thought he seemed more fatigued when he won the Bonnette stage.
 
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Peyroteo94

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Cookster15 said:
Maybe. But did you miss the moment on Vingegaard’s wheel on PdB when he sat up no hands to take a drink? Didn’t look like he was at his limit at all? Shortly after that moment he counter attacked.

I thought he seemed more fatigued when he won the Bonnette stage.
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He attacked almost 5 km later but yeah he was effortless in that moment and the proof is how much time he won that day to Vingegaard. There is no doubt it was the best climbing performance of all times.
 
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Krzysztof_O

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Peyroteo94 said:
No mate. In my opinion you are underestimating Vingegaard. I still remember he had an awful crash 12 weeks before the Tour. Saying Vingegaard is a threat and can compete mano a mano with Pogi is not saying anything negative about Pogacar.
I think Vingegaard can beat Pogacar again and you are free to disagree.
But one thing I am sure is: the gap between the best GT rider (Pogi) and the second best (Vingegaard) is smaller (and by a significant margin) than the gap between the best one day rider and the second best (MVP or Remco. In my opinion is MVP).
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Agreed on that. Vingo had a terrible crash and his preparation was far from optimal. He showed great numbers during some Tour stages but also lacked his normal 3 week consistency. Nobody knows exactly how strong his normal performance would've been but it goes without saying that he would've been much closer than those 6 minutes. I also agree that Vingo is closer to Pog than others and IMO he's the only rider with a chance to disrupt Pog's dominance next year.
 
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Froome

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James M said:
Comparing Pog to 22 to now im not sure you paid attention of what has happened but its galaxys apart.

And Vingegaard won many races that year of importance outside tdf? Was it the 16 place in lombardia who did it for you?

Your fascination for this guy after he has beaten Pogacar when he was hurt when even Roglic and others would too is crazy and I would say you shouldnt overestimate if anything. He is good indeed in GT second best for sure atm goes without saying, but its levels to this, and I dont think anyone is underestimating him but still its levels to this, if Pogi boy is close to 100% its not remotely close not cause i say so but from any standpoint in any numbers in every terrain in literally every metric its not even remotely close. Doesnt mean your boy Vingegaard isnt good cause he is. so relax.
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Vingegaard was hurt in the Tour, right?
 
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hayneplane

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Cookster15 said:
Maybe. But did you miss the moment on Vingegaard’s wheel on PdB when he sat up no hands to take a drink? Didn’t look like he was at his limit at all? Shortly after that moment he counter attacked.

I thought he seemed more fatigued when he won the Bonnette stage.
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Nah didn’t miss it. That was THE moment of the tour for me.

Bonette was Stage 19. They were all fatigued but on an easier climb Tadej took even more time out of Jonas than on PdB.
 
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