Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Bushman]

When comparing Bernal and Pogacar, one has to make the distinction between potential and actual ability, as Logic does. Pogacar is an incredible talent and one of the most well-rounded neopros I’ve ever seen and he might very well be on the same path as Bernal. The difference is though that Bernal has already established himself as one of the best climbers and stage racers in the world (scary to think about how much more upside he has) and while Pogacar is certainly looking incredible, it’s more of an unknown where his ceiling lies (thinking mainly about climbing ability here).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Just looking at PCS, Pogacar's first season as a pro is probably the best I have ever seen. Remember, its difficult to compare to Bernal since he got pro when he was younger. The consistency of Tadej is simply incredible. He seriously can finish top-5, well, he probably would have been now without the crash.

Simply an amazing talent.

 

[Lequack]

He's also the national timetrial champion (although Roglic didn't contest it) so he'll be wearing that jersey in the ITT.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Hard to believe this is a 20 year old neo.

I mean everybody is raving about Evenepoel, but it doesn't eclipse Pogacar's performances so far

 

[Valanga]

Hard to believe this is a 20 year old neo.

I mean everybody is raving about Evenepoel, but it doesn't eclipse Pogacar's performances so far

Pogačar is about 1,5 years older though, but anyway, no need to compare their efforts yet really. We'll surely get enough time for that in the future.
Interesting times ahead! Pogačar, Bernal, Evenepoel ...

 

[Red Rick]

Pogačar is about 1,5 years older though, but anyway, no need to compare there efforts yet really. We'll surely get enough time for that in the future.
Interesting times ahead! Pogačar, Bernal, Evenepoel ...

He attacks now

 

[KZD]

What a rider

 

[Lequack]

He provided the only GC excitement for today.

 

[JosephK]

It was fun watching him take off. I don't think it should affect how he does tomorrow (stage 7). It was just the last couple kilometers today. He made the other GC guys spend some effort chasing, as well.

 

[Rollthedice]

Chapeau. Now I am very curious to see his TT.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Hard to believe this is a 20 year old neo.

I mean everybody is raving about Evenepoel, but it doesn't eclipse Pogacar's performances so far

If you are talking in absolute terms, then no, i don't think it eclipses what Pogacar has done this year. I would rate both debuts about equal. Winning San Sebastian, an actual classic, winning the EC ITT, stages in BBT and AIR and the overall in BBT, couple of top 10 stageraces (San Juan, Turkey, AIR...), some exploits in Hammer series and the Belgian National ITT (3rd) vs stages + overall in California & Algarve, top 10 in Pais Vasco & Slovenia and the Slovenian National ITT win . But if you factor in age, then Evenepoel's trajectory is the (far) more baffling imho.

We'll have to wait and see if RE will be able to pull off in 16 months what Pogacar did this year (I'm not yet convinced he will). But i'm also quite sure Pogacar wouldn't have been able to do what Evenepoel did this year, 16 months ago (i actually don't think Pogacar could have done this year, what Evenepoel did this year). They are after all quite different. The biggest difference however, imho, is not in strenght or commitment, but in style. While Pogacar seems very calculated and strategically clever, Evenepoel seems far more brazen and going against established rules. I think this is also what makes him more fun to follow than Pogacar. There are more actual "WTF" moments. But whether their way of riding is due to temperament or (lack of) experience, remains to be seen. I'm just enjoying the ride watching these guys. This year has given us (or me at least) a lot of enjoyment with Evenepoel, Pogacar, Bernal, van Aert, van der Poel, Carapaz and... Lambrecht. To be honest, i haven't been able to watch one stage of the Vuelta yet, simply because last month i was so excited to see him ride there.

 

[proffate]

Seems like a rookie move to waste that energy when the next two weeks will be brutal. What did he earn, 2 seconds? The riders behind were in a group on an easy gradient so I don't think the claim they spent as much energy holds water. Yeah, he was feeling good but he needs to realize that was because they were all riding slow. Not crafty imo.

 

[starlord]

Seems like a rookie move to waste that energy when the next two weeks will be brutal. What did he earn, 2 seconds? The riders behind were in a group on an easy gradient so I don't think the claim they spent as much energy holds water. Yeah, he was feeling good but he needs to realize that was because they were all riding slow. Not crafty imo.

If he's going to pay for yesterday's efforts then it's a lesson learned for him. That's what he's there for in the first place

 

[Lequack]

He has other duties too, like massaging Fernando Gaviria

 

[LaFlorecita]

Excellent ride again today

 

[Lequack]

He was really at his limit today, but still only bested by the top 5 riders, which is still amazing. Depending on his TT he can still overtake Majka for 5th in the GC.

 

[F_Cance]

So we are all assuming now that he is allowed to finish the Vuelta? Real question.

 

[Finn84]

As long as he keeps a good position they won't pull him out. If he completely cracks somewhere then it's different situation.

 

[luckyboy]

Hard to believe this is a 20 year old neo.

I mean everybody is raving about Evenepoel, but it doesn't eclipse Pogacar's performances so far

Pogacar has been fantastic but Evenepoel didn't race a bike until 2 years ago did he? And didn't race U23 at all. Hard to compare considering that and the fact they're totally different style of rider anyway.

 

[JosephK]

Poga is having a great Vuelta. At this point, a 5th place GC position is not out of the question. Still, it may be expecting too much of the neo-pro to continue climbing this well through weeks 2 and 3.

 

[Koronin]

As long as he keeps a good position they won't pull him out. If he completely cracks somewhere then it's different situation.

Granted this was almost 2 decades ago, but Kelme pulled Valverde out of the 2002 Vuelta on the 2nd rest day as was decided before the race started, and Valverde was in a position to contend for the overall podium of that race. So it is possible they will pull him even if it's in a good position.

 

[Leinster]

Granted this was almost 2 decades ago, but Kelme pulled Valverde out of the 2002 Vuelta on the 2nd rest day as was decided before the race started, and Valverde was in a position to contend for the overall podium of that race. So it is possible they will pull him even if it's in a good position.

Alex Zulle was 24 when ONCE pulled him in the middle of the 1992 Tour.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Seems like a rookie move to waste that energy when the next two weeks will be brutal. What did he earn, 2 seconds? The riders behind were in a group on an easy gradient so I don't think the claim they spent as much energy holds water. Yeah, he was feeling good but he needs to realize that was because they were all riding slow. Not crafty imo.

I kind of disagree. On long climbs that matter, he will likely see that older guys with better endurance are too good for him to follow. However, in this case, the peloton wasn't paced too hard, and he attacked only in the final few k before the finish. This wasn't an effort that will make or break his GC. If he pays for this effort next week or the week after, then he was never going to compete anyway. On the other hand, had the peloton not reacted in time on his attack, he might well have gained 20 seconds instead of 2. In fact, his attack did win him over 20 seconds on guys like Knox, Padun, Eg...

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Granted this was almost 2 decades ago, but Kelme pulled Valverde out of the 2002 Vuelta on the 2nd rest day as was decided before the race started, and Valverde was in a position to contend for the overall podium of that race. So it is possible they will pull him even if it's in a good position.

I was too young to follow the 02 Vuelta, but this doesnt seem accurate to me. Based on what I can see at PCS and CQRanking, Valverde didnt finish the 15th stage to Angliru (the famous chaos stage where David Millar quit 1 meter before the finish line, and this was the day before the second rest day).
However, before the 15th stage, Valverde was in 45th place 39 minutes down after the 13th stage and on the 14th stage he finished 104th 8 minutes down on the peloton (which contained about 90 riders). He was no way in "a position to contend for the overall podium" and the situation with Pogacar is pretty different.
It's always easy to mix up memories that goes that far back in time.

 

[tobydawq]

I was too young to follow the 02 Vuelta, but this doesnt seem accurate to me. Based on what I can see at PCS and CQRanking, Valverde didnt finish the 15th stage to Angliru (the famous chaos stage where David Millar quit 1 meter before the finish line, and this was the day before the second rest day).
However, before the 15th stage, Valverde was in 45th place 39 minutes down after the 13th stage and on the 14th stage he finished 104th 8 minutes down on the peloton (which contained about 90 riders). He was no way in "a position to contend for the overall podium" and the situation with Pogacar is pretty different.
It's always easy to mix up memories that goes that far back in time.

True, he didn't contend for any podium whatsoever in that race.

Cool name by the way.