Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

I detest the Pokémon meme. No, cycling is not all about "Gotta Catch 'Em All!".

I hope the best rider will race the greatest race for the win every year.

Pogacar is riding the biggest races year after year. Just mixing it a bit up to so he doesn't end up with 7 T-A or 7 P-Ns and none of the other race makes a lot of sense to me. Likewise racing the Giro makes sense, and trying to win MSR at that point in the season - why not? Then he mixes it a bit up regarding Flanders, and odds are he would definitely race Flanders if not for the Giro.

I like his schedule every year and think every race he does makes a lot of sense.

He needs to win La Vuelta, Giro d' Italia, Romandie, Suisse, Pais Vasco,Dauphine, MSR, CSS, G-W and P-R. And obviously Worlds/OCRR. And if you wanna add a bit smaller races then Omloop and E-3 (which you can argue is a bigger win than CSS for example, but whatever).

Chances are he will win Giro d' Italia this year, and he could easily win every one of these week long stage races if he rode them, but they clash with the classics somewhat. He preferes a lighter schedule, but at one point you could literally see him sweep these races if he wants to. Not that it matters a lot IMO, its obviously a lot better to race the monuments + TdF at full strength as well and then you need to rest.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar is riding the biggest races year after year. Just mixing it a bit up to so he doesn't end up with 7 T-A or 7 P-Ns and none of the other race makes a lot of sense to me. Likewise racing the Giro makes sense, and trying to win MSR at that point in the season - why not? Then he mixes it a bit up regarding Flanders, and odds are he would definitely race Flanders if not for the Giro.

I like his schedule every year and think every race he does makes a lot of sense.

He needs to win La Vuelta, Giro d' Italia, Romandie, Suisse, Pais Vasco,Dauphine, MSR, CSS, G-W and P-R. And obviously Worlds/OCRR. And if you wanna add a bit smaller races then Omloop and E-3 (which you can argue is a bigger win than CSS for example, but whatever).

Chances are he will win Giro d' Italia this year, and he could easily win every one of these week long stage races if he rode them, but they clash with the classics somewhat. He preferes a lighter schedule, but at one point you could literally see him sweep these races if he wants to. Not that it matters a lot IMO, its obviously a lot better to race the monuments + TdF at full strength as well and then you need to rest.

I don't know why he cares about one week stage races. Cycling is all about GT's, monuments and worlds. This is where legacy is created. No one will ever remember if he wins Pais Vasco, Tour de Suisse or Tour de Romandie. And these 3 races are not good for his schedule. Racing Pais Vasco means he can't compete in Flanders, Romandie starts when he goes on vacations. Tour de Suisse (fighting for GC) is not a good prep for the Tour.
If he tries to win these races instead of really focusing on winning more monuments and Tours, I will be very surprised.
In order to be the best ever he needs to win 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 3 Vueltas. In terms of monuments, he needs to win all of them and surpass 11 wins.

 

[tobydawq]

To get a complete palmares, you must win every race. So I'd assume Poggi goes for P-N next year and maybe Dauphine too. Then Tour -Vuelta double. And a few selected classics.

 

[RedheadDane]

Olympics first although that course is very firmly to the advantage of MVDP.

There's always 2028...

 

[bNator]

I think the complete palmares is a gimmick only the most hardcore cycling fans could care about. An argument could be made, of course, that Pog is a hardcore cycling fan as well but still, I think he would take additional Flanders win instead of first-time Itzulia every year. Who wouldn’t?

And why would he sacrifice his Tour chances for some checkmarks when that’s not only where he gets most media attention and money but also (more importantly) presents his greatest challenge? Winning TdF and a couple of 1-week stage races was done many times by lots of riders. Jonas won Itzulia, Dauphine and TdF just last year. Winning classics and monuments together with TdF is much more unique.

 

[Brullnux]

Surely just preference, no? Pogacar seems more like the I want to win something of everything type, with a focus on the Tour partly bc (imo) Vingegaard keeps beating him. If he beats Vingegaard fair and square, then I can absolutely see him mixing up priorities according to whatever he fancies that year. He's more like Contador/Nibali in that regard than Armstrong/Sky.

Also given he's a throwback to 60s and 70s riders, I feel like he might well want a similar palmarés too

 

[Breh]

He's always going to ride Le Tour imo.
Especially if(big if) he's the defending champion next year.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Oh, now I'm convinced that he needs to win Romandie and Gent-Wevelgem.

Ir order for him to win every "big race". That was implicit

Its obviously better to focus on monuments and GTs as I also said, but you can still change some stuff up and get in wider palmarés in the process. That was the pretty easy-to-understand point of my poost.

 

[tobydawq]

Oh, now I'm convinced that he needs to win Romandie and Gent-Wevelgem.

Good.

I absolutely hate the fact that Valverde didn't win Amstel or Lombardia and that Sagan didn't win Strade, Amstel or MSR.

If Zabel had won De Ronde and Roubaix and just two MSR's instead of four, he would definitely have left a bigger mark.

The Pokémon logic does have its merits.

To an extent, that is. I would probably prefer him to forgo Itzulia forever if that means riding De Ronde every year. But he has said himself that he wants to win the seven big one-week races.

Maybe he can even do both in one season (Ronde and Itzulia)?

 

[Netserk]

Good.

I absolutely hate the fact that Valverde didn't win Amstel or Lombardia and that Sagan didn't win Strade, Amstel or MSR.

If Zabel had won De Ronde and Roubaix and just two MSR's instead of four, he would definitely have left a bigger mark.

The Pokémon logic does have its merits.

To an extent, that is. I would probably prefer him to forgo Itzulia forever if that means riding De Ronde every year. But he has said himself that he wants to win the seven big one-week races.

Maybe he can even do both in one season (Ronde and Itzulia)?

Do you also prefer Cancellara's monument wins over Boonen's monument wins? Sanremo above a 4th Roubaix?

 

[Froome]

Of course he will always do the Tour. The Tour is the most important race in the world, and it's what matters for the casual fans.

 

[tobydawq]

Do you also prefer Cancellara's monument wins over Boonen's monument wins? Sanremo above a 4th Roubaix?

Probably not, but that's only because Boonen tied the record (and Roubaix is better than MSR (you lured me into a trap there, didn't you?)).

Also, Boonen has his world title, and I don't really think it makes sense to talk only monuments and ignore worlds which is practically a sixth monument.

 

[Gigs_98]

I mean there are clearly layers to this discussion. I really don't think he should do smaller races in order to win everything on the calendar, but changing up his schedule so he can win different races makes a lot of sense. Does anyone think winning all GTs plus all monuments isn't a goal he should strive for?

Do you also prefer Cancellara's monument wins over Boonen's monument wins? Sanremo above a 4th Roubaix?

If Boonens 4th wasn't the record, would you not?

 

[Peyroteo94]

I mean there are clearly layers to this discussion. I really don't think he should do smaller races in order to win everything on the calendar, but changing up his schedule so he can win different races makes a lot of sense. Does anyone think winning all GTs plus all monuments isn't a goal he should strive for?

Yeah but winning Pais Vasco and sacrifice Flanders? Nah, true cycling fans don't want to see that.

 

[Netserk]

If Boonens 4th wasn't the record, would you not?

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

 

[Gigs_98]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

I think GTs are different though because they all test pretty much the same skill. If you've won the Tour 7 times no sh*t you also could have won the giro and the Vuelta if only you cared. Winning PR doesn't mean you can win MSR too. That's why I value a very versatile classics palmares very highly. Like, I think Gilberts classics career was way way better than Valverdes despite only winning one monument more.

 

[Froome]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

The true is that probably if some rider of this generation get's 6 Tours de France, he will be more remembered than someone who won every race.

Of course it's always better winning 6 Tours de France and all the other races.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think GTs are different though because they all test pretty much the same skill. If you've won the Tour 7 times no sh*t you also could have won the giro and the Vuelta if only you cared. Winning PR doesn't mean you can win MSR too. That's why I value a very versatile classics palmares very highly. Like, I think Gilberts classics career was way way better than Valverdes despite only winning one monument more.

not just that. Gilbert's wins are not just boring uphill sprints.

 

[Brullnux]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

Froome is a bit weird though because 2011 was an on the road defeat, so it ends up at 4/1/1, which is obviously worse than 7 Tours. However, I preferred Contador's 3/3/3 to Armstrong's 7, and I still kind of like the symmetry of the 2/2/3.

 

[hayneplane]

Surely just preference, no? Pogacar seems more like the I want to win something of everything type, with a focus on the Tour partly bc (imo) Vingegaard keeps beating him. If he beats Vingegaard fair and square, then I can absolutely see him mixing up priorities according to whatever he fancies that year. He's more like Contador/Nibali in that regard than Armstrong/Sky.

Also given he's a throwback to 60s and 70s riders, I feel like he might well want a similar palmarés too

Think a difference there is there was always a big pull towards the Giro for Nibali as the biggest star in Italian cycling of his era. It also helped him to star pad his palmares as he wasn’t beating prime Contador or Froome.

 

[Blanco]

I think GTs are different though because they all test pretty much the same skill. If you've won the Tour 7 times no sh*t you also could have won the giro and the Vuelta if only you cared. Winning PR doesn't mean you can win MSR too. That's why I value a very versatile classics palmares very highly. Like, I think Gilberts classics career was way way better than Valverdes despite only winning one monument more.

Versatility is fine and nice, a great quality, But it is not deciding factor. Sheer amount of wins are, and the bigger they are, better the rider is.
It comes into play, when there's some kind of a tie, then the versatile one gets the nod.
Gilbert classics career was better, but not way better.

 

[Sciatic]

To get a complete palmares, you must win every race. So I'd assume Poggi goes for P-N next year and maybe Dauphine too. Then Tour -Vuelta double. And a few selected classics.

When riders talk about get a win to “complete their palmares” they are talking about wins in the set of races important to them and suited to their attributes (classics, sprinter, GC) not that a complete palmares means winning every big race on the calendar.

 

[proffate]

For Pog, I would definitely rate one MSR more highly than another Lombardia or Liege, because it's just a slap in the face of all the fast men whereas we don't need another reminder that he's still the best 1 day climber.

I mean, to win Lombardia you only have to be a little bit better than the next best climber. But to win MSR as a climber, you probably have to be head and shoulders better than anyone else. So to some extent, "versatility" is actually a way of demonstrating utter dominance.

But if Pog never wins GW then it's probably a knock on GW, not on his palmares.

 

[scribers]

Depends on what happens this year. If he gets the Giro-Tour double I even see a possible radical schedule change next year: going for all monuments (Flandres + Roubaix included) in the spring and Vuelta in the autumn.

Mou says no P-R before 2026

 

[scribers]

Given Pogacar status in the team I think he has something to say and they won't oppose if he wants to skip the Tour one year (especially after completing the double and regaining the Tour title). It's still a long way to go and a lot of things can happen in the meantime. Tour is always his big goal but I can imagine him intentionally skipping it once during his prime (i.e. to have a better shot at Roubaix and Vuelta).

He can ride the tour and still contest P-R and la vuelta