Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[bNator]

Not really. I don't perform that accurate estimations, one would need a very accurate profile and time intervals. Just time stamps for a given section (sometimes I could be off by a dozen or so seconds due to another image shown at that time). When you have time for a section then you divide elevation difference (from the profile so we need to believe the profile is 100% correct) by this time (measured in hours) and you get average VAM. The rest are w/kg estimation formulas for given VAM and section average gradient. Ferrari formula is quite popular and in most cases consistent with some twitter guys doing estimations. Obviously the situation changes a bit when they go in a larger group vs a single cyclist, so additional corrections (reduced aero drag) are done when riding in a group.

BTW: doing "integration" over 100 meters intervals would be better but one needs very accurate data plus on homogenous climb sections (little gradient variations) it would make little difference.

I was thinking about doing something like that but of course, it would have to be programatically. Enter the route gps coordinates (what is usually called shape), then retrieve altitude data from an online service for each route datapoint. The rest is entering timestamp and remaining distance whenever they occur. You could even get wind speed&direction from online service for each such datapoint.

Of course this could only work for the leader of the race since for the rest of them would not be able to obtain remaining distance data. So it makes very little sense in the end...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I was thinking about doing something like that but of course, it would have to be programatically. Enter the route gps coordinates (what is usually called shape), then retrieve altitude data from an online service for each route datapoint. The rest is entering timestamp and remaining distance whenever they occur. You could even get wind speed&direction from online service for each such datapoint.

Of course this could only work for the leader of the race since for the rest of them would not be able to obtain remaining distance data. So it makes very little sense in the end...

I'm actually a programmer so it wouldn't be that difficult to do but good formulas and most importantly precise input data is needed (both time and space). Otherwise one can overdo it without improvement vs average estimations. BTW I just edited the previous post with some additional info in the last paragraph.

 

[Berniece]

I'm actually a programmer so it wouldn't be that difficult to do but good formulas and most importantly precise input data is needed (both time and space). Otherwise one can overdo it without improvement vs average estimations. BTW I just edited the previous post with some additional info in the last paragraph.

Isn't there only Strava data available for us?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Isn't there only Strava data available for us?

TBH I'm not familiar with this data, its format and accuracy. Isn't that what twitter guys use? (or maybe just official profiles) I tend to think that they don't perform calculations with 100 m interval. IMO they take bigger sections to calculate, maybe 1 km or even averaging over longer homogenous sections or just between key moments of the race.

 

[bNator]

TBH I'm not familiar with this data, its format and accuracy. Isn't that what twitter guys use? (or maybe just official profiles) I tend to think that they don't perform calculations with 100 m interval. IMO they take bigger sections to calculate, maybe 1 km or even averaging over longer homogenous sections or just between key moments of the race.

You can get tcx or gpx files, deserialise and get the data you need (distances, elevation data, times, etc). Basically, you can do full auto calculation if you get these files (programmer as well). Of course, not all riders will post their rides publically (Roglic for instance never does)…

 

[Froome]

It seems Velonews was off with those estimations. I decided to do my own from Eurosport Player replay: about 13 minutes for the last climb, average VAM about 1660 m/h, which on a 7.6% climb corresponds to about 6 w/kg.

Not as thermonuclear as Velonews assessment. However they mentioned 10 minutes effort. Excluding the last kilometer it was about 1780 m/h of VAM for 9 minutes, so a considerably higher value, which is about 6.4 w/kg. Judging by this, last km was slower but this is assuming we believe in accurate climb profiles 100 % - in Oropa I actually found out that it's not that accurate (I was a spectator).

I checked the data from Mottolino, on Chronoswatts by frederic Portoleau. From Foscagno he doesn't give a specific estimation, but looking at the VAM of ammattipyoraily and the estimation from watts in cycling he did around 6.75 w/kg in the end of foscagno.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This was really a rest day. Everything is going perfectly and tomorrow he will put another show!! Go Go Pogi!

 

[Rob5091]

Matxin gives the low down on the tour preperations
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...laught-we-are-paid-to-win-there-are-no-gifts/
...confirmed that Pogačar will have one week off the bike to recover from the Giro, and then spend three weeks at altitude at Isola 2000 in the French Alps to prepare for the Tour.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Matxin gives the low down on the tour preperations
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...laught-we-are-paid-to-win-there-are-no-gifts/
...confirmed that Pogačar will have one week off the bike to recover from the Giro, and then spend three weeks at altitude at Isola 2000 in the French Alps to prepare for the Tour.

This is a pretty ambitious plan. Only one week off and then altitude Is it even a typical approach for doing the double? I though more rest between Giro and Tour was planned by guys in the past. Maybe they will start the camp easily and increase intensity in week2 and week3.

 

[Valv.Piti]

This is a pretty ambitious plan. Only one week off and then altitude Maybe they will start the camp much easily and increase intensity in week2 and week3.

I'd assume thats how that stuff usually goes?

 

[Cookster15]

This is a pretty ambitious plan. Only one week off and then altitude Maybe they will start the camp much easily and increase intensity in week2 and week3.

Well, its not like he has actually been pushed this Giro? Red Rick joked a few weeks back he was more concerned Pogacar might detrain this Giro. With the gentle parcours and non existent competition that might not be an exaggeration.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'd assume thats how that stuff usually goes?

Maybe but I thought more resting time at home instead of 3-week altitude camp was a more common approach for the double. They planned this camp a long time ago though so I'm assuming it was carefully analysed.

Well, its not like he has actually been pushed this Giro? Red Rick joked a few weeks back he was more concerned Pogacar might detrain this Giro. With the gentle parcours and non existent competition that might not be an exaggeration.

I wouldn't neglect mental fatigue. It's large after a GT, one has to be careful all the time. And it can actually affect the whole body.

 

[Rob5091]

Well, its not like he has actually been pushed this Giro? Red Rick joked a few weeks back he was more concerned Pogacar might detrain this Giro. With the gentle parcours and non existent competition that might not be an exaggeration.

Before the Giro, UAE said control the race and training was the main things for the Giro.

 

[Netserk]

I'd assume thats how that stuff usually goes?

Time between Giro-Tour this year and Tour-Vuelta last year is the same, but Vingegaard didn't go to altitude in between the two races.

 

[BubbaChuck]

Now thats real training,lol.

 

[Tonton]

This is a pretty ambitious plan. Only one week off and then altitude Is it even a typical approach for doing the double? I though more rest between Giro and Tour was planned by guys in the past. Maybe they will start the camp easily and increase intensity in week2 and week3.

Remember he's the guy who went to Strade for his first race of the season ...

 

[snipeheem]

Maybe but I thought more resting time at home instead of 3-week altitude camp was a more common approach for the double. They planned this camp a long time ago though so I'm assuming it was carefully analysed.



I wouldn't neglect mental fatigue. It's large after a GT, one has to be careful all the time. And it can actually affect the whole body.

Dont worry the forum prophet told us Pogi will never lose anymore, we have to trust him

 

[Lequack]

'Haters gonna flag' – Tadej Pogačar keeps getting flagged on Strava​

'Haters gonna flag' – Tadej Pogačar keeps getting flagged on Strava

The Slovenian's mind-blowing efforts at the Giro d'Italia are attracting the suspicion - or perhaps jealousy - of fellow Strava users. 'It's a funny moment', he says

www.globalcyclingnetwork.com

Bonus pic

 

[Peyroteo94]

He can win 4 minutes tomorrow with Martinez just following Thomas.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Realistically Pogi is tired ATM and stage 20 won't exactly help in that regard. A week off in my opinion won't be enough, to recoverer. I expect two to three weeks of proper training for the Tour. As for anything beyond that i don't see it.

 

[veganrob]

Pog wasnot joking,when he said he is going after mercx.I know people see pog as nice humble guy and he is .but in reality pog is maniac,he doesnot give afuk.No kids,pure cycling till he is 40.Pog has similar mentality as another slovenian maniac Jure Robic,who is most insane sportsmen ihave ever saw,probably in history.They different in their head.Pog doesnot care,ih he dies on bike,he dies.

No way he races till 40. Maybe 34.

 

[Sciatic]

This is a pretty ambitious plan. Only one week off and then altitude Is it even a typical approach for doing the double? I though more rest between Giro and Tour was planned by guys in the past. Maybe they will start the camp easily and increase intensity in week2 and week3.

Last time a possible Tour winner did the double riders weren’t spending as much time at altitude training camps as they do now. I’m sure Dumoulin didn’t, don’t know about Froome. Nairo might have gone back to Colombia to train.

 

[rm2021]

Now thats real training,lol.

pogacar does zone 2 and trains throughout the year, even in races, which must be why on the Tour he can't do zone 6 or zone 7, especially in the time trial. He's not used to it. Then humiliations happen. "i'm gone, i m dead".

Pogacar reminds me of those troublemakers who are stronger with the weak, but when someone his size appears, things change.

 

[skippo12]

pogacar does zone 2 and trains throughout the year, even in races, which must be why on the Tour he can't do zone 6 or zone 7, especially in the time trial. He's not used to it. Then humiliations happen. "i'm gone, i m dead".

Pogacar reminds me of those troublemakers who are stronger with the weak, but when someone his size appears, things change.

Kinda the opposite. He went to Flanders knowing that it is MVPs and WVAs home turf. Even challenged them on a flat WCC course. This year he is attempting something that hasn't been done in more than 25 years. Once again trying the impossible instead of just doing the basics. He could have cancelled the Giro after VIngegaard's injury and would be the heavy favorit in the Tour. Instead he is going up against Roglic, Evenepoel and maybe Vingegaard with the Giro in his legs.

If anything Pog is going for the biggest possible challenge every single time. Would love to see more riders with the same attitude.

 

[Cookster15]

pogacar does zone 2 and trains throughout the year, even in races, which must be why on the Tour he can't do zone 6 or zone 7, especially in the time trial. He's not used to it. Then humiliations happen. "i'm gone, i m dead".

Pogacar reminds me of those troublemakers who are stronger with the weak, but when someone his size appears, things change.

We will see. But I think your post is physiological and psychological nonsense.