Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

the guy is entering the 4/5 golden years of a cyclist's career. One could say that he will burn out before, given that he started winning at a young age (like Sagan for example)... but he is not normal. He is improving season after season, and there is no sign of a plateau. The next few years will be tough for competition I fear.

If road cycling was based in sheer power, he would win the next 3 WC. I even think Kigali will be the worst WC for him in the next 3 editions.

 

[YavorD]

How many teams have more than one rider able to win GTs or monuments? I just remember Visma in recent years (last 3-4 years).

Sky certainly. Depending on how you project Tao after 2020.

As for Visma, they could win not only GT's but were favourites for the monuments as well (didn't win any between 2021 and 2023 though) which is quite unique and rare.

 

[Cycling111]

No one had help. Pogacar lost the race because he was naive. Maybe he could gamble later in the race if he hadn't crashed.

Van der Poel had Philipsen. And until the attack, Alpecin was by the side of his leaders.
Before the attacks, when Philipsen crashed, Alpecin decided to wait for him. Pogacar couldn't decide because more than half of his team was behind.
UAE wasn't even present for the first 100 km. Everything was done as Alpecin decided.

For a team like UAE, winning three times in Abruzzo doesn't contribute anything. In fact, seeing this after their leader had ride a PR alone for over 200 km five days earlier...
A team like that has to perform in big races; winning in Abruzzo is useless.

I say this because you mentioned it in the Pogacar thread. It really doesn't do Pogacar any good to have teammates who win third-category races and leave him alone in the first-category race like PR.

Alpecin doesn't win smaller races, but VDP is never alone in Flanders and Roubaix. That's what matters for a leader, not beating PC rides in Abruzzo.

UAE doesn't need this; padding stats like this sounds ridiculous considering what we saw five days ago.

I said it in the other thread. For a big team, it's more important to win 7 TDFs with 4 riders like Sky or to win all 3 GTs and 1-2-3 Vuelta like Visma. In my opinion, the UAE's stats are a bit ridiculous comparing to Sky and Jumbo years.

 

[Red Rick]

Ineos won a monument in 2022 and got within 1 Fedaia Harakiri of winning the Giro

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sky certainly. Depending on how you project Tao after 2020.

As for Visma, they could win not only GT's but were favourites for the monuments as well (didn't win any between 2021 and 2023 though) which is quite unique and rare.

I don't count Sky so only Visma. I think everyone can agree Visma was the best team (by far) between 2020-2023.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ineos won a monument in 2022 and got within 1 Fedaia Harakiri of winning the Giro

Forgot about Carapaz! So I count Sky!! Sorry @YavorD

 

[YavorD]

I don't count Sky so only Visma. I think everyone can agree Visma was the best team (by far) between 2020-2023.

But in 2019 they objectively had Thomas, Froome and Bernal (who was seen as a sure GT winner.
Then in 2020 they kinda lost Froome but got Carapaz, so objectively they had more than 1 person capable of winning a GT.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But in 2019 they objectively had Thomas, Froome and Bernal (who was seen as a sure GT winner.
Then in 2020 they kinda lost Froome but got Carapaz, so objectively they had more than 1 person capable of winning a GT.

I said last 3-4 years but I agree with you.

 

[Cycling111]

Ineos won a monument in 2022 and got within 1 Fedaia Harakiri of winning the Giro

7 tours with 4 riders >>>>>>>>>>> 500 stages in Abruzzo
3GT and 1-2-3 in la Vuelta >>>>>>>>> 81 stage wins, many of them aren´t WT

In UAE, only Pogacar has won a GT or Monument, even an important classic.

UAE is ridiculously inflating statistics at races like Abruzzo.
This would be fine if they hadn't left their leader alone five days ago.

To me it looks ridiculous when they promote the 80 wins when many are like this and compared to what Jumbo did in 2023.

In 2023, Jumbo didn't win 80 races, but all the ones they won were important. The didn't need to add up 20 like that. 3 GT and la Vuelta they overshadow most of the UAE's victories without Pogacar.

The victories that count are Almeida's Itzulia and Ayuso's Tirreno, although if they aren't able to take a step forward in GT, they'll still be behind what Jumbo did winnig GT with multiple leaders.

 

[Peyroteo94]

7 tours with 4 riders >>>>>>>>>>> 500 stages in Abruzzo
3GT and 1-2-3 in la Vuelta >>>>>>>>> 81 stage wins, many of them aren´t WT

In UAE, only Pogacar has won a GT or Monument, even an important classic.

UAE is ridiculously inflating statistics at races like Abruzzo.
This would be fine if they hadn't left their leader alone five days ago.

To me it looks ridiculous when they promote the 80 wins when many are like this and compared to what Jumbo did in 2023.

In 2023, Jumbo didn't win 80 races, but all the ones they won were important. The didn't need to add up 20 like that. 3 GT and la Vuelta they overshadow most of the UAE's victories without Pogacar.

The victories that count are Almeida's Itzulia and Ayuso's Tirreno, although if they aren't able to take a step forward in GT, they'll still be behind what Jumbo did winnig GT with multiple leaders.

Visma didn't win monuments regularly like UAE. But I agree with you, only Pogacar can win big right now.

 

[Cycling111]

Visma didn't win monuments regularly like UAE. But I agree with you, only Pogacar can win big right now.

But they won in Openning Wekeed with Tratnik or Laporte. In UAE, no one wins classics of that level.

We're seeing what's happening in Brabantse against big rivals.
Or what happened in Omloop this year, neither had a chance of victory against a high-level peloton

Narvaez would´ve won all four stages and the Abruzzo GC
But UAE signings have to be for winning Omloop like Tratnik, not for winning in Abruzzo and making a fool of themselves in the important classics or or not help Pogacar in PR.

Visma has won the opening weekend in recent years with Jorgenson, Laporte, or Tratnik.
Tratnik has won Omloop, and UAE's big signings win stages in Abruzzo or the TDU Narvaez. Is Tratnik better than all UAE signings?

Narvaez needs to win a race in Omloop like Tratnik, not pad his stats in the TDU. And others need to help Pogacar a bit in PR. For what they did on Sunday, Pogacar couldve gone with Unibet Rocket´s ; it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Peyroteo94]

We're seeing what's happening in Brabantse against big rivals.

Narvaez isn't even at Blackmore's level.
Narvaez would have won all four stages and the Abruzzo GC

When UAE makes these signings, they expect them to win important classics.

Visma has won the opening weekend in recent years with Jorgenson, Laporte, or Tratnik.
Tratnik has won Omloop, and UAE's big signings win stages in Abruzzo or the TDU Narvaez.

Narvaez needs to win a race in Omloop like Tratnik, not pad his stats in the TDU. And others need to help Pogacar a bit in PR. For what they did on Sunday, Pogacar could have gone with Unibet Rocket; it wouldn't have made a difference.

Narvaez is a wheelsucker. He was strong enough to follow Remco there but was waiting for someone else to do it.

 

[Salvarani]

I think UAE are just good at giving all their riders chances. Cycling is great in that way. There are just so many races around. Something for everybody.

It is good for some of their younger riders as well to be able to develop at their own pace. Like Del Toro, Morgado, Christen and Torres.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think UAE are just good at giving all their riders chances. Cycling is great in that way. There are just so many races around. Something for everybody.

It is good for some of their younger riders as well to be able to develop at their own pace. Like Del Toro, Morgado, Christen and Torres.

For some reason, I don't find Torres very strong. I know he is very young though.

 

[Salvarani]

For some reason, I don't find Torres very strong. I know he is very young though.

I don’t think he is very all-round.

He could improve on that though.

Or just become an elite climber.

 

[Cycling111]

Narvaez is a wheelsucker. He was strong enough to follow Remco there but was waiting for someone else to do it.

It was just an example.

Narvez was signed to help Pogacar and win races like Omloop. In Abruzzo Narvaez could´ve won every stage and GC.

Tratnik, Laporte, Jorgenson won big classisc.
Omloop >>>>> 3 stages in Abruzzo.

And Alpecin doesn't win a lot, but if we're going to talk about this in the Pogacar thread, then Pogacar doesn't care that his teammates don't win anything, he'll only care that they're with him in PR like Alpecin does with VDP even if they don't win anything in Abruzzo or anywhere else.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don’t think he is very all-round.

He could improve on that though.

Or just become an elite climber.

Not even an elite climber to be honest but I can be so wrong! For example Del Toro is not looking that good too me too. Maybe it is due to Pogacar's growth as a rider and I expect everyone to follow his growth.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It was just an example.

Narvez was signed to help Pogacar and win races like Omloop. In Abruzzo Narvaez could´ve won every stage and GC.

Tratnik, Laporte, Jorgenson won big classisc.
Omloop >>>>> 3 stages in Abruzzo.

And Alpecin doesn't win a lot, but if we're going to talk about this in the Pogacar thread, then Pogacar doesn't care that his teammates don't win anything, he'll only care that they're with him in PR like Alpecin does with VDP even if they don't win anything in Abruzzo or anywhere else.

But UAE was stronger than Alpecin in RVV.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He needs to be cautious with Remco. His level seems better than what he has been saying

 

[CatchyH]

He needs to be cautious with Remco. His level seems better than what he has been saying

Amstel and Liege are almost a 100km longer races and a lot harder of course. He's looking good but Amstel will be more of an indicator of his chances in Liege.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Amstel and Liege are almost a 100km longer races and a lot harder of course. He's looking good but Amstel will be more of an indicator of his chances in Liege.

Remco doesn't have problems with long races.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Nys never won an important race in his career but Lidl didn't learn from what Pogi did to Pederse for example. I like Nys but c'mon...

Lidl-Trek teammates put trust on Thibau Nys: The best Thibau might be able to hold Pogacar's wheel

Thibau Nys only began his road season now in April but immediately took a victory at the GP Miguel Indurain, and then at Itzulia Basque Country he was able to prime his form. Whilst absent most of the...

cyclinguptodate.com

 

[Panda Claws]

I'd prefer this over my team just going: "lol no you'll never follow Pogacar omg he the GOAT".

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'd prefer this over my team just going: "lol no you'll never follow Pogacar omg he the GOAT".

He was awful in Pais Vasco, maybe s bit more cautious with your comments before facing probably the best hilly classics rider in the world.

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

To say Pogacar was in his worst ever form in the fall of 2023 is straight up ludicrous.

Maybe. He was sick with a cold in GdL, I personally don't think the form was there in the Italian classics and the less said about his 2023 WC ITT, the better.