Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Cookster15]

I'm a big fan of him but this looked a transfusion of fresh blood performance. Just like Contador in the good old days

So how long does a blood bag last? And, if a bag explains today, does anyone seriously think Vingegaard didn’t do similar the nights before Granon and Hautacam last year or even for yesterday's demonstration?

Next question is, why can’t a blood bag be detected by the controls? Do we need to wait years (Cobo)?

 

[ontheroad]

48.4km to go today, 1.3km to the top... watch the headshake from the Movistar rider as they rocket past.

The attack on the Tourmalet was jaw dropping, they were like Formula One cars lapping the back markers as they sped their way past the remnants of the break. I think JV was definitely not expecting Pogacar to still be on his wheel after that washing machine attack. It brought back memories of Froome sprinting up Ventoux only this time there were 2 of them.

 

[robbo]

Yeah, normally I'm not a fan of armchair medical analysis (I believe him and Jonas are both juicing just in a more nuanced way) but the classical BB came instantly to my mind after that performance. Yesterday should've suited him way more and he got dunked on and then today he was suddenly comfortable (his own words) on Tourmalet today with Jonas pushing insane numbers in altitude.
It's amusing because it was clear that Jumbo did not expect that at all, they must've been absolut confident that he would drop in these 15 minutes monster pace on Tourmalet.

 

[iceblink]

well cycling fans were bored with the relatively clean era of the sky train with just TUE and asthma puffer abuse - now they got back the excitement of the pre-sky era with mutants attacking with ridiculous watts.

enjoy

 

[Rob5091]

If this was the Volta we'd all be having a good laugh and some head shaking.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

well cycling fans were bored with the relatively clean era of the sky train with just TUE and asthma puffer abuse - now they got back the excitement of the pre-sky era with mutants attacking with ridiculous watts.

enjoy

I think you meant "clean"

 

[Ripper]

If this was the Volta we'd all be having a good laugh and some head shaking.

That is exactly what I'm doing

 

[Ripper]

The attack on the Tourmalet was jaw dropping, they were like Formula One cars lapping the back markers as they sped their way past the remnants of the break. I think JV was definitely not expecting Pogacar to still be on his wheel after that washing machine attack. It brought back memories of Froome sprinting up Ventoux only this time there were 2 of them.

2007 TdF memories ...

 

[Ripper]

We need to merge the Pogo/Vingo threads into a super mutant combo thread

 

[meat puppet]

So how long does a blood bag last? And, if a bag explains today, does anyone seriously think Vingegaard didn’t do similar the nights before Granon and Hautacam last year or even for yesterday's demonstration?

Next question is, why can’t a blood bag be detected by the controls? Do we need to wait years (Cobo)?

1. A bag lasts until hb mass returns to pre bag baseline.

2. Vingo is surely well prepared but he did not turn a 60sec deficit into a 25sec surplus, or not even trying to follow to attacking, literally overnight. So kinda whataboutism.

3. The blood passport tracks hb or hct and the ratio between infant and mature red cells. It was set up to hold in a legal scrutiny first and foremost, and even so its legal prowess was so and so, so the margins within which athletes could operate were wide to begin with.

It was demonstrated over a decade ago that one can game the passport with epo microdosing and gain significant hb mass increase without a flag. So microdosing the infants up and slamming in adults and plasma might be one tactic.

Also, don't think the two are gonna get busted. And maybe the bag guess is too old school, as posters have suggested.

Maybe Pog is just that good 🥰🥰🥰🥰

 

[Blobs]

As much as I hate to say it: This might be a chess game about the timing of the blood bags. It is still the greatest show on earth, and let's not judge one sinner as being worse than the other.

All we can do is enjoy the show.

 

[Riek s]

This is the second time in a short period where I see a UAE rider drop and lose over a minute, only to destroy the entire field the next day.

true, but Ayuso performance was not good before his performance was his best ever. For pogacar his performance was 'normal' (6.6/6.7 W/kg) and now he did a lot better (best ever, same with vingegaard).

can we really say he had a bad day before when he only lost time on someone who was going more nuclair than him?

 

[frenchfry]

2007 TdF memories ...

So true, I can still remember Contadope and the chicken sprinting up the cols.

There are some that find these performances exciting, my tendancy is to write off the tour for another year.

 

[Rackham]

So true, I can still remember Contadope and the chicken sprinting up the cols.

There are some that find these performances exciting, my tendancy is to write off the tour for another year.

The difference in coverage is real though, i.e. back then, no one believed what they were seeing. No one. I remember the TV commentators literally laughing as Rasmussen & Contador sprinted up a mountain.

Now we're back to the 1990's in terms of naiveté with regards to how the majority of casuals seem to just accept the sporting performances on display. But then again, we're in an era where 36 year old tennis players keep on going & keep on smashing records, like age & the number of years at the top isn't an issue.

So people have been conditioned by other sports as well into accepting abnormal as normal. I suppose it's only fair that cycling got its seat back at the table with other sports stars with unbelievable exploits.

 

[meat puppet]

The difference in coverage is real though, i.e. back then, no one believed what they were seeing. No one. I remember the TV commentators literally laughing as Rasmussen & Contador sprinted up a mountain.

Now we're back to the 1990's in terms of naiveté with regards to how the majority of casuals seem to just accept the sporting performances on display. But then again, we're in an era where 36 year old tennis players keep on going & keep on smashing records, like age & the number of years at the top isn't an issue.

So people have been conditioned by other sports as well into accepting abnormal as normal. I suppose it's only fair that cycling got its seat back at the table with other sports stars with unbelievable exploits.

Yes. The exceptional has become the expectation. Commented on this in the state of the peloton thread.

 

[Aimar16]

we're in an era where 36 year old tennis players keep on going & keep on smashing records, like age & the number of years at the top isn't an issue.

Nole would have been wiped out of tennis long ago if he used stuff like nobody else in tennis. The very rich people in power must really hate that guy. He spoke out against NATO bombing, he's antivax, his father posed with pro-war Russians, he's Serbian. Who is protecting this guy so he can continue to make history? That sport is just generally dirty, not just one guy.

 

[Rackham]

Nole would have been wiped out of tennis long ago if he used stuff like nobody else in tennis. The very rich people in power must really hate that guy. He spoke out against NATO bombing, he's antivax, his father posed with pro-war Russians, he's Serbian. Who is protecting this guy so he can continue to make history? That sport is just generally dirty, not just one guy.

I get all of that.

I also think sometimes the most logical explanations can be the correct ones, i.e. in the case of pro sports, it could be that dope controls & stuff like biological passports don't work anymore. That's partly where I'm at, honestly. It doesn't matter whether it's Serena Williams, Djoko, Vingegaard or whomever, I just think the authorities have been totally left behind by newer techniques.

There's a tendency for people to assume the authorities in sport must be covering for the top stars (for $$$ reasons) but honestly, I think governing agencies are incompetent & powerless, not just corrupt. For example it was easy to make Djoko's life hell in Australia or in the USA over his antivax stance but actually catching him in the act of doping is probably something else entirely.

 

[Ripper]

So true, I can still remember Contadope and the chicken sprinting up the cols.

There are some that find these performances exciting, my tendancy is to write off the tour for another year.

I'm still enjoying watching all of the lovely racing that's occurring. Not just at the Tour either. And thus far in the racing has been pretty interesting

 

[Ripper]

Priceless stuff going on this year. V man launches an absurd attack on the Tourmalet, but P man is able to follow with no problem and launch his own thermonuclear attack on the final, bouncing back rather spectacularly from the day before.

At least we are seeing two extraterrestrials duke it out (for now). Could you imagine how incredibly boring the race for yellow would be if it was only one of them?

 

[Riek s]

Priceless stuff going on this year. V man launches an absurd attack on the Tourmalet, but P man is able to follow with no problem and launch his own thermonuclear attack on the final, bouncing back rather spectacularly from the day before.

At least we are seeing two extraterrestrials duke it out (for now). Could you imagine how incredibly boring the race for yellow would be if it was only one of them?

or how close it would be without both of them?

We would have 11 riders within 3minutes. (excluding Hindley who took time due to an escape).
Now the '3rd' (again excluding Hindley) is more than 3 minutes behind.

 

[Ripper]

or how close it would be without both of them?

We would have 11 riders within 3minutes. (excluding Hindley who took time due to an escape).
Now the '3rd' (again excluding Hindley) is more than 3 minutes behind.

Yup

 

[ZamlinusYoutubeious]

Like Snoop doog once said AIn"t no fun if the homies can't have none...good to see him have some.

 

[Aimar16]

I get all of that.

I also think sometimes the most logical explanations can be the correct ones, i.e. in the case of pro sports, it could be that dope controls & stuff like biological passports don't work anymore. That's partly where I'm at, honestly. It doesn't matter whether it's Serena Williams, Djoko, Vingegaard or whomever, I just think the authorities have been totally left behind by newer techniques.

There's a tendency for people to assume the authorities in sport must be covering for the top stars (for $$$ reasons) but honestly, I think governing agencies are incompetent & powerless, not just corrupt. For example it was easy to make Djoko's life hell in Australia or in the USA over his antivax stance but actually catching him in the act of doping is probably something else entirely.

Of course, the cheaters are always ahead of the authorities. But I think the system is designed that way and it is not incompetence and powerlessness. If they want to bring someone down they will do it no matter how, like a few years ago WADA spent a good chunk of its budget to go after the Chinese swimmer. After that, the Chinese started to significantly increase the amount they contribute to WADA's budget. Which is now close to the amount given by other big donors like the USA, UK, Japan etc. I don't think such things happen by chance. If you pay a lot then your star athlete can go to the panic room instead of the doping control and nothing will happen.

 

[hender-retour]

I'm a big fan of him but this looked a transfusion of fresh blood performance. Just like Contador in the good old days

This. I hope he did it because he wanted to and not because of outside pressure. That is my main concern with these things actually.

 

[Rackham]

I bet the look of the faces of the Jumbo DS's was priceless on Cauterets when Pog countered Vinge.

Tbh I think what we see is what we get: Jumbo were convinced their rider was stronger & there was no way Pog could follow on Tourmalet. Their behavior (tactical approach) suggested absolute certainty in their numbers, aka something which is already suspicious as f***, basically, i.e. insofar as any absolutism regarding knowledge of their own numbers can only be achieved... clinically, i.e. otherwise the 'glorious uncertainty of sport' remains a factor.

For example it could have been theorized before the stage that Vingegaard might have plausibly had a lesser day on Thursday after his big attack on Wednesday. But Jumbo don't care for trivialities like recuperation & fatigue, no, it's full steam ahead based on scientific facts. I reckon they overextended themselves in the firm belief their program had yielded a stronger climber.

So roll on Puy-de-Dôme this afternoon where we'll see who's done their homework better this time.