Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Red Rick]

2018 is a good example of the opposite. It was a controlled pace, and they even waited after Nibali crashed and broke his back. In the end, he finished only 13'' behind Thomas. The day before on an easier MTF, Thomas dropped him by nearly a minute.

Quintana was full gas on Alpe d'Huez, Sastre likewise. Vingegaard and Pogi could have done it faster last year.

Yes.

Ideal pacing strategies do not have a big group for very long, especially not on climbs like the Alpe where the hardest section is in the beginning.

 

[ppanther92]

well cycling fans were bored with the relatively clean era of the sky train with just TUE and asthma puffer abuse - now they got back the excitement of the pre-sky era with mutants attacking with ridiculous watts.

enjoy

Lol

AX3 Domaines All-Time Top 100 List:

1. Laiseka 22:57, 2001

2. Armstrong 22:59, 2001
3. Froome 23:14, 2013
4. Ulrich 23:17, 2003
5. Zubeldia 23:19, 2003
6. Ulrich 23:22, 2001

7. Armstrong 23:24, 2003
8. Vinokourov 23:34, 2003

9. Basso 23:36, 2003

 

[Peyroteo94]

I bet the look of the faces of the Jumbo DS's was priceless on Cauterets when Pog countered Vinge.

Tbh I think what we see is what we get: Jumbo were convinced their rider was stronger & there was no way Pog could follow on Tourmalet. Their behavior (tactical approach) suggested absolute certainty in their numbers, aka something which is already suspicious as f***, basically, i.e. insofar as any absolutism regarding knowledge of their own numbers can only be achieved... clinically, i.e. otherwise the 'glorious uncertainty of sport' remains a factor.

For example it could have been theorized before the stage that Vingegaard might have plausibly had a lesser day on Thursday after his big attack on Wednesday. But Jumbo don't care for trivialities like recuperation & fatigue, no, it's full steam ahead based on scientific facts. I reckon they overextended themselves in the firm belief their program had yielded a stronger climber.

So roll on Puy-de-Dôme this afternoon where we'll see who's done their homework better this time.

But I didn't see Vingegaard weaker than on Marie Blanque. He still put 2 minutes in a couple of km on Tourmalet. Pogacar was way stronger, no doubt about that. The reason why, I really don't know. What is curious is Jumbo somehow think they know (or they really know) Pogacar's limits which is funny because Pogi really overpowered Vingegaard.

 

[veganrob]

But I didn't see Vingegaard weaker than on Marie Blanque. He still put 2 minutes in a couple of km on Tourmalet. Pogacar was way stronger, no doubt about that. The reason why, I really don't know. What is curious is Jumbo somehow think they know (or they really know) Pogacar's limits which is funny because Pogi really overpowered Vingegaard.

The rumor of Pogacar's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[Ripper]

But I didn't see Vingegaard weaker than on Marie Blanque. He still put 2 minutes in a couple of km on Tourmalet. Pogacar was way stronger, no doubt about that. The reason why, I really don't know. What is curious is Jumbo somehow think they know (or they really know) Pogacar's limits which is funny because Pogi really overpowered Vingegaard.

They also gave him a magic carpet ride of drafting for a very long time. So even if he was more or less even or slightly below Vingo in capacity, he had a lot more to spare by the final.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Tomorrow is the D day. If he is not caught, he will win this Tour. Unless Vingegaard is waiting for his bag too.

 

[meat puppet]

Of course he is. Question is how many will they do, respectively, and what kind of margins of safety are being applied.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Lol

AX3 Domaines All-Time Top 100 List:

1. Laiseka 22:57, 2001

2. Armstrong 22:59, 2001
3. Froome 23:14, 2013
4. Ulrich 23:17, 2003
5. Zubeldia 23:19, 2003
6. Ulrich 23:22, 2001

7. Armstrong 23:24, 2003
8. Vinokourov 23:34, 2003

9. Basso 23:36, 2003

Think what Froom could have done if he wasn’t clean.

 

[Rob5091]

"So roll on Puy-de-Dôme this afternoon where we'll see who's done their homework better this time."
Seems like UAE have the better recovery program - it must be the cryo-chamber!

 

[Rackham]

"So roll on Puy-de-Dôme this afternoon where we'll see who's done their homework better this time."
Seems like UAE have the better recovery program - it must be the cryo-chamber!

Some people had noted that Vingegaard looked a little 'off' yesterday & tbh this impression was confirmed today, even though the margins are small (in the heat as well where Vingegaard is supposed to be better, at least according to Vinge himself in an interview a couple of days ago).

I do wonder whether Vingegaard hasn't simply been peaking for too long now (since early June) & might have lost a fraction of a percentage point after going hard on Wednesday & Thursday, i.e. just enough to empty his tanks beyond what Jumbo had expected & put him in the danger zone versus a rider of Pog's calibre.

 

[NFTtiddies]

Pog isn't messing around anymore, you can tell by his face when he drops the watt bombs.
He really does look like a different person.

 

[Cookster15]

What is curious is Jumbo somehow think they know (or they really know) Pogacar's limits which is funny because Pogi really overpowered Vingegaard.

We need to put this nonsense to rest. There is no way Jumbo can know Pogacar’s limits beyond analysing his response in actual racing. This is affected by a number of variables Jumbo’s sports scientists don’t know. It is pure speculation. An educated guess isn’t fool proof.

 

[lenric]

Think what Froom could have done if he wasn’t clean.

travel back in time

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Pog isn't messing around anymore, you can tell by his face when he drops the watt bombs.
He really does look like a different person.

Zoom in and he looks a little bit like baby Lance.

 

[Nick2413]

Pog isn't messing around anymore, you can tell by his face when he drops the watt bombs.
He really does look like a different person.

He has a very specific posture when he’s feeling good, especially when the race is on. And if he clears his nose you know he’s about to drop the hammer.

 

[Blobs]

Some people had noted that Vingegaard looked a little 'off' yesterday & tbh this impression was confirmed today, even though the margins are small (in the heat as well where Vingegaard is supposed to be better, at least according to Vinge himself in an interview a couple of days ago).

I do wonder whether Vingegaard hasn't simply been peaking for too long now (since early June) & might have lost a fraction of a percentage point after going hard on Wednesday & Thursday, i.e. just enough to empty his tanks beyond what Jumbo had expected & put him in the danger zone versus a rider of Pog's calibre.

There's nothing wrong with Vingegaards level. According to the watts, he seems to be at the same level as last year.

Pogacars climbing level has been steady for the last three Tours, with similar performances in those, but this year he has really leveled up. His natural talent has really exploded this year.

 

[argyllflyer]

A 2023 ExPlOsion.

 

[Rob5091]

After stage 13 we're now onto a battle of who has the best recovery methods. Mind you, these junior length stages means everyone will be tucked in bed nice and early.

 

[Rob5091]

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...this-tour-de-france-he-might-start-to-suffer/
Sean Kelly thinks Pogacar could run out of steam -
“For Pogačar, it’s usually his home tour, which I think is about five days or something. That’s what you normally need.
“But he had two months with no competition. If he continues on like he is in this Tour, it would be amazing performance, considering he was out for that time.
“And if he goes on to win this Tour, I don’t know what the other riders and teams are going to say. ‘How are we going to beat him, if it is not this year?’
“So, I’m expecting the final week or maybe even this weekend in the Alps that we could see him starting to suffer a bit. That would be my way of looking at it, anyway."

Interesting that Pogacar waited until the last 500m before attacking on stage 13 not earlier, and using Yates as a decoy.

 

[lenric]

he can win the tour again and all that, but would he win the volta a portugal, would he be capable of beating W52? Thermonuclear stuff.

 

[Rackham]

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...this-tour-de-france-he-might-start-to-suffer/
Sean Kelly thinks Pogacar could run out of steam -
“For Pogačar, it’s usually his home tour, which I think is about five days or something. That’s what you normally need.
“But he had two months with no competition. If he continues on like he is in this Tour, it would be amazing performance, considering he was out for that time.
“And if he goes on to win this Tour, I don’t know what the other riders and teams are going to say. ‘How are we going to beat him, if it is not this year?’
“So, I’m expecting the final week or maybe even this weekend in the Alps that we could see him starting to suffer a bit. That would be my way of looking at it, anyway."

Interesting that Pogacar waited until the last 500m before attacking on stage 13 not earlier, and using Yates as a decoy.

Sean Kelly plays into the theater of cycling coverage.

It means half the stuff we hear on Eurosport is all about pushing a narrative of "expect some entertainment!", usually via picking one plausible scenario among many & running with it. It's like when there's a slight breeze & the commentators start screaming about echelons & cross winds. I swear to God if Vingegaard had the ascendency right now, we'd be hearing about how Pog is coming into form at the right time & just waiting for his moment to strike.

Personally I think when the level between two riders is so close (as it has been between Pog & Vinge since the second half of the 2021 TdF), small details matter, and right now the 'small detail' is the fact Pog is repeatedly dropping Vingegaard, unlike last year.

 

[Blobs]

They've leveled him up this year. 450 meters of almost full gas sprints up a 10% slope, is something I don't think anyone has ever done before.

 

[Riek s]

They've leveled him up this year. 450 meters of almost full gas sprints up a 10% slope, is something I don't think anyone has ever done before.

But keep in mind that Vingegaard, a guy with no sprint, lost only 5 seconds. (so its not like the other mutant was that much slower).

You aren't the first one who was looking for such a thing in history.
Froome/Contador. (although froome did most of it 'seated')

https://twitter.com/x/status/1679948318875561984

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1679948318875561984

 

[QueenStagiaire]

But keep in mind that Vingegaard, a guy with no sprint, lost only 5 seconds. (so its not like the other mutant was that much slower).

You aren't the first one who was looking for such a thing in history.
Froome/Contador. (although froome did most of it 'seated')

https://twitter.com/x/status/1679948318875561984

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1679948318875561984

It‘s funny because that Froome attack had next to no explosivity and even Keldermerckx held on for a few hundred meters.

 

[Blobs]

But keep in mind that Vingegaard, a guy with no sprint, lost only 5 seconds. (so its not like the other mutant was that much slower).

The idea that he has no sprint is a bit obsolete. He can't beat Pogacar in a mountain sprint, but would beat almost anyone else. Also he was in Pogs slipstream, so didn't need the same output.