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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Ironically starting to dislike it more.

With dudes like Froome, it's like at least people knew it was joke, or they'd sooner or later admit it. Or they'd just go to "clentadopucci" ***.

Now there's not even asking questions anyore. Everything is happy, doping happened 20 years ago, all the while the most ridiculous *** is happening in front of our eyes every fuckign day.

I miss the Froome days. Instead of 3km of action for the win in the Froome days, we now get 5 seconds of Pogacar riding away seated with a smile on his face with a 50% chance of the TV directors missing it as well. Race over. Everyone knows it. And people only get excited because they bought into the cult of Pogacar. Or the cult of Vingegaard. Or the cult of MvdP

"He's so nice".

I'd also be nice if I was the biggest doper out there, everyone worshipped me, and I had assurance i wasn't getting busted any time soon.
I wouldn't say no one's asking questions, anymore. Maybe the UCI isn't but they're historical complicity shouldn't shock anyone. It's not apparently definable what, if any edge the "nice" guys have and whether they all do or it's going to fade. Hell, Cancellara was accused of motor doping as the explanation of his classics dominance.
On the broadcast today (Peacock) the commentator mentioned that 65% of the bikes were checked without incident. I almost spit my coffee out at that comment.
 
That's why I said it could account for "uplift of much performance..." That said he got beat at MSR and the gaps he'd putting on Catalunya fields wouldn't be as likely with another ET player to screw with tactics. Like Jonas he's the main player in the race. The gap to Landa and Bernal isn't so ridiculous, is it?
I think so. There has not been a winner of Catalunya for the past 50 years that's been ahead by over 1:30 or so to second place. That he likely wouldn't have such a lead were Vingegaard in the race, merely, as I see it, speaks of their common ET status, but the extra-terrestrial status itself is highly problematical in this sport. MSR is always going to be the hardest monument for him to win, because it's not hard enough to easily break the others, so not winning it seems in line with expectations.
 
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Is there any speculation that Pogacar or Vingegaard are using motors?

Maybe I'm being extreme but this new norm of pulverising everyone from 50km out is very suspicious. When you hear a world class cyclist like Tom Pidcock saying in Strade that there were bodies just dying with 80km to go, then Pogacar casually blows everyone out of the water.
Maybe motors are in use????
 
Is there any speculation that Pogacar or Vingegaard are using motors?

Maybe I'm being extreme but this new norm of pulverising everyone from 50km out is very suspicious. When you hear a world class cyclist like Tom Pidcock saying in Strade that there were bodies just dying with 80km to go, then Pogacar casually blows everyone out of the water.
Maybe motors are in use????

there was smoke around Pogacar during the 2021 Tour where other (anonymous) riders said his bike was making weird sounds. it wouldn't shock me if Visma decided to not be cheated the next year and came back with a motor as well.

i will say though, i couldn't see them being this brash and attracting attention like this if they had a motor. there's no reason to motor dope to win Catalunya by 4 minutes (or Galicia for Vinegegaard). i would think they would want to lay low and then unleash it at the Tour.
 
@Cookster15 As others already mentioned 2020 was the breakthrough year. The Tour was super fast on climbs and included a proper thermonuclear performance at the end by none other than young, tender Teddy.
Not just in the end. Peyresourde was also a superb performance, it's not so popular like the last ITT, but it was probably one of the best 25 min ever by Pogacar in Grand tours.
 
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Catalunya is a Pogacar's freak show :eek: If the entire race was all MTF, he would have won all stages without breaking a sweat - He's not even using his teammates at all :mad:
It's pretty funny stuff.

I actually had a similar thought earlier today, and combined it with the recent comment about wanting to win all the major 1 week stage races. Something like this ...

Toddy will complete the (insert whatever year) season as a solo supported rider. Meaning he will have a team car, bikes, etc., but no teammates. And his goal is to win all 3 GTs and every monument, as well as the WC.

:p
 
there was smoke around Pogacar during the 2021 Tour where other (anonymous) riders said his bike was making weird sounds. it wouldn't shock me if Visma decided to not be cheated the next year and came back with a motor as well.

i will say though, i couldn't see them being this brash and attracting attention like this if they had a motor. there's no reason to motor dope to win Catalunya by 4 minutes (or Galicia for Vinegegaard). i would think they would want to lay low and then unleash it at the Tour.
This is silly like the discussions several years ago. Specialized is sponsoring two of the major contenders; do you think they'd take that kind of risk? It'd ruin their brand if all success was attributed to Granpa's e-bike technology. Better to have a busted, doped rider win on their product and drop the rider.
No; they are somewhere between better than other riders/teams and the Outer Limits. Motor doping isn't likely.
"there was smoke around Pogacar during the 2021 Tour where other (anonymous) riders said his bike was making weird sounds." is hack-writer click-bait. The weird sound would be someone like Remco or Tadej made accelerating in 3 cogs higher than the riders being dropped.
 
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Not just in the end. Peyresourde was also a superb performance, it's not so popular like the last ITT, but it was probably one of the best 25 min ever by Pogacar in Grand tours.

Yup but last 25 minutes of Puy de Dome was probably better. Pog gained almost a minute in like 1.5 km on all guys except Vingo, who himself was pushing super strong but couldn't catch Pog. ET acceleration and VAM (over 2000 in the last 15 min).
 
Yup but last 25 minutes of Puy de Dome was probably better. Pog gained almost a minute in like 1.5 km on all guys except Vingo, who himself was pushing super strong but couldn't catch Pog. ET acceleration and VAM (over 2000 in the last 15 min).
I think on puy de dome, pogacar attacked in the last 1.5 km. It was probably during 5 minutes the VAM 2000.

Puy de dome had a flat section of 3 km in the middle of the climb. The steepest section was the last 4 km.
 
I think on puy de dome, pogacar attacked in the last 1.5 km. It was probably during 5 minutes the VAM 2000.

Puy de dome had a flat section of 3 km in the middle of the climb. The steepest section was the last 4 km.
2000 for 15 minutes below 1500m altitude at steep gradient isn't actually crazy. The 6.5 for 35 minutes number is by the LR guys who overestimate everything. There was a headwind on a large part of the climb, which probably is the reason for the estimate.
 
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2000 for 15 minutes below 1500m altitude at steep gradient isn't actually crazy. The 6.5 for 35 minutes number is by the LR guys who overestimate everything. There was a headwind on a large part of the climb, which probably is the reason for the estimate.
View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1678115559970357248


@Krzysztof_O was right in the last 15 min.

It doesn't make sense the calculations for the 35 min, because there are a flat section of about 3 km in the middle.
 
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This and actual professional training plans can account for the uplift of much performance. The younger riders are much better trained than in the past, too.
The 90's introduced a pharma aid that everyone knew about that was poorly responded to by the UCI....and many other controlling bodies. There may be something in the peloton that is less than legal and retroactive testing may get it but this widespread parity hasn't revealed anything other than better work ethic so far.
But those things were also improving in the 2010's but without any signifiant improvement in the average level of the peloton.

The current situation reminds me of 2008 with CERA, except this time people aren't getting caught. Gianetti played a part in that as well.

Look at Padun a couple of years back. He clearly showed there is something you can currently do, that will turn you into an absolute alien without getting caught. He didn't just eat well and ride on really good equipment for a few weeks.
 
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But those things were also improving in the 2010's but without any signifiant improvement in the average level of the peloton.

The current situation reminds me of 2008 with CERA, except this time people aren't getting caught. Gianetti played a part in that as well.

Look at Padun a couple of years back. He clearly showed there is something you can currently do, that will turn you into an absolute alien without getting caught. He didn't just eat well and ride on really good equipment for a few weeks.
You get no argument from me on all of these counts. I can say bike and wheel technology has upped the speed a bit from my experience but actual power may not from those better aerodynamics.
 
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Jul 23, 2023
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where are the journalists? where's Walsh?
the only one is Antoine Vayer, all influencer on X are hypocrites, never anyone who talks about doping, mihai, LR, B.N. , ammatty
where did that guy called @Uefe go??

Pogacar is the biggest scandal since Armstrong and no one talks
 
I have vibes of playing PCM in easy mode when I see Pogacar racing. I know he will be an all time great and he is probably the most talent rider cycling has ever witnessed however something is going on with doping these days. The gap is absurd between him/Vingegaard/MVP and the rest. It is not funny anymore.
"Probably the most talented rider ever"? No. Only since he started riding for UAE. If you want to see talent in all age categories, check Evenepoel, Van der Poel, Pedersen and Pidcock.
 
"Probably the most talented rider ever"? No. Only since he started riding for UAE. If you want to see talent in all age categories, check Evenepoel, Van der Poel, Pedersen and Pidcock.
He won tour de l'avenir before joining UAE with the biggest gap to second place since Quintana and he was racing for Slovenia (almost raced alone). What are you talking about? Of course no one thought he would be this good but he was one of the most impressive young riders ever.
 
He won tour de l'avenir before joining UAE with the biggest gap to second place since Quintana and he was racing for Slovenia (almost raced alone). What are you talking about? Of course no one thought he would be this good but he was one of the most impressive young riders ever.
He won one important race in his first three years. Giro della Lunigiana. In his fourth year he won the Grand Prix Preissnitz Spa and Tour de l'Avenir (in which he won 0 stages). You call that the most talented racer ever? Even Marc Hirschi was better in his years before he joined UAE.
 
He won one important race in his first three years. Giro della Lunigiana. In his fourth year he won the Grand Prix Preissnitz Spa and Tour de l'Avenir (in which he won 0 stages). You call that the most talented racer ever? Even Marc Hirschi was better in his years before he joined UAE.
Why talent is always seen as victories in youth? Seriously, he was a Tour de France winner at 22 years old. For you, Hirshi is more talented than Pogi because he had better results?
 
Goodness gracious, I think it would be silly to argue that he is not a talented athlete. And arguing who was "the best" during their teen years seems to be somewhat impossible to win (so to speak).

However, he is taking the piss these days. He's been absolutely wiping the floor with people on his preferred terrain, while taking it to the sprinters on theirs. I'm not a fan of J-Crew man, but if Toddy blitzes the Tour this year, I suspect the forum may be unbearable for a while. He has quite the gushing admirers, so in that way it could be similar to Skybot world.
 

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