• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

Page 158 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
I think Vingegaards performances in the TdF need some adjustment. In 2022, he beat Pogacar thanks to the teamwork and tactical errors by Pogacar. In 2023, Pogacar had a disturbed preparation, but still dropped Vingegaard, 3 times uphill. Vingegaards time trial was brilliant, but we forget that Pogacar finished second and put more than a minute on everyone else.
Rog and REv are equally matched and no competition for those two imho. I guess they're second tier as well.

It's enough to look what happened when Pog or Vingegaard pushed turbo button during recent Tours (or during their other stage races): everyone was pedalling backwards. It's no different in this Giro with only one of the two mutants present. Weaker field or not: it's only a matter of the 2nd guy being 5 minutes behind vs 7 minutes behind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noob and AmRacer
Perhaps this is too general a question for this thread, but how would a peloton in which nobody is doping look different from one in which all the top guys are doping, as is presumed here?

Or are only Vingegaard and Pog on the good stuff?

This is a good question. I suppose that big teams like JV and UAE have better possibilities of organizing top-end doping so the field is not equal at all. On top of that there is responding factor: one cyclist (i.e. a guy with excellent engine but average blood values) can respond better to blood doping than another (who has naturally high levels of hematocrit for example). If the second guy has only a slightly worse engine he will be worse in doping conditions but maybe slightly better if both ride paniagua (due to naturally better oxygen transport in blood).
 
This is a good question. I suppose that big teams like JV and UAE have better possibilities of organizing top-end doping so the field is not equal at all. On top of that there is responding factor: one cyclist (i.e. a guy with excellent engine but average blood values) can respond better to blood doping than another (who has naturally high levels of hematocrit for example).
MvdP says hi!
 
Perhaps this is too general a question for this thread, but how would a peloton in which nobody is doping look different from one in which all the top guys are doping, as is presumed here?

Or are only Vingegaard and Pog on the good stuff?
I don't think all the top guys are doping. There's definitely something going on with Pogacar, but I don't see any extraordinary performances with his UAE colleagues. Even Evenepoel, Roglic, MvdP and Pidcock show consistency over the years and occasional weakness. Vingegaard and WVA are more suspicious of course, but it's not as obvious as Pogacar.
 
I don't think all the top guys are doping. There's definitely something going on with Pogacar, but I don't see any extraordinary performances with his UAE colleagues. Even Evenepoel, Roglic, MvdP and Pidcock show consistency over the years and occasional weakness. Vingegaard and WVA are more suspicious of course, but it's not as obvious as Pogacar.
Poggi has lost against both Jonas and Mathieu a number of times the past couple of years.
 
I don't think all the top guys are doping. There's definitely something going on with Pogacar, but I don't see any extraordinary performances with his UAE colleagues. Even Evenepoel, Roglic, MvdP and Pidcock show consistency over the years and occasional weakness. Vingegaard and WVA are more suspicious of course, but it's not as obvious as Pogacar.
Where do you draw the distinction? Pogacar's consistent dominance across a variety of terrains since a young age is certainly suspicious, but so are the heights reached by Vingegaard at the tour at age 26 25 after a career of relatively anonymous results.
 
Slave Nuke, if you can keep Pidcock, Higuita, Arensman, Geoghegan Hart and Kuss at a distance, it does mean something.
A whole bunch of world beaters... and of course everyone wants to be in peak form for February
Anyway, do you know many 2nd tier riders that won GC in Algarve, Basque Country and Dauphiné?
Lmao. Even to consider Dani Martinez a second-tier GC rider is a stretch

tier 1- Vingegaard, Pogacar
tier 2- Roglic, Remco, Thomas
tier 3- Yates bros, Carapaz, Ayuso, Carlos Rodriguez
tier 4- Hindley, Almeida, Mas, Vlasov..... I think Martinez should be here
 
A whole bunch of world beaters... and of course everyone wants to be in peak form for February

Lmao. Even to consider Dani Martinez a second-tier GC rider is a stretch

tier 1- Vingegaard, Pogacar
tier 2- Roglic, Remco, Thomas
tier 3- Yates bros, Carapaz, Ayuso, Carlos Rodriguez
tier 4- Hindley, Almeida, Mas, Vlasov..... I think Martinez should be here
I could go along with this for the GC, but it doesn't explain why Pogacar can drop someone like Martinez whenever he wants to. He's defintely a much better finisher/puncher than most on this list.
 
Deary me. Hubris might well do for this guy as it did to Armstrong. Winning so many stages, running everyone’s noses in it, is going to annoy quite a few people. He wasn’t even trying, so easy, he looks so superior it is starting to look more than a little strange to all but the wilfully blind. Was it strange that he rode with short sleeves and everyone else is wrapped up against the cold? In the meantime, thanks for another soulless drama free farce.

Edit: Maybe this is the start of at least some people challenging what they are seeing, https://www.msn.com/fr-fr/sport/oth...-les-chiffres-suspects-de-pogacar/ar-BB1mL0GF
 
Last edited:
I think Vingegaards performances in the TdF need some adjustment. In 2022, he beat Pogacar thanks to the teamwork and tactical errors by Pogacar. In 2023, Pogacar had a disturbed preparation, but still dropped Vingegaard, 3 times uphill. Vingegaards time trial was brilliant, but we forget that Pogacar finished second and put more than a minute on everyone else.
Rog and REv are equally matched and no competition for those two imho. I guess they're second tier as well.
You talked about tatical errors, what about the tatical errors Vingegaard did on Tourmalet and Cambasque? The only time he was dropped.