Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Samu Cuenca]

It would be a little funny, if he was thrown out of the race Merckx/Pantani style now after the way he handed over the pink jersey to Pellizzari (not that I want it to happen).

 

[frenchfry]

I can't figure out why he has only won 5 stages, he must be holding back.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Just my opinion: he's doped

 

[AmRacer]

Just my opinion: he's doped

More or less than Jonas and Mathieu?

 

[Slavique Nuke]

It would be a little funny, if he was thrown out of the race Merckx/Pantani style now after the way he handed over the pink jersey to Pellizzari (not that I want it to happen).

Those who should be thrown out of the race are Movistar for gifting the stage to Pog

 

[the delgados]

I like how the second place rider raised his arm at the finish as if he won the stage.
Maybe a message saying he was the first humanoid to cross the line.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Has there ever been a question about doping during this Giro? This subject seems to be completely avoided recently. I mean we all know that Teddy is clean but some journalists can't help themselves usually while now there is nothing.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Has there ever been a question about doping during this Giro? This subject seems to be completely avoided recently. I mean we all know that Teddy is clean but some journalists can't help themselves usually but now there is nothing.

Journalists are more afraid of big trouble than riders are of long, cold Giro stages.

 

[hulkgogan]

On the pod the other day Friebe at least acknowledged social media was blowing up with doping talk. The reaction of supposed journalist Brian Nygaard tells you everything. He said he hadn't bothered to look at social media and when Freibe asked him if there was any talk in the press room at the Giro, Nygaard gave a flat, "no". Basically, see, hear and speak no evil.

 

[GuntherL1]

Yeah, opposition was 2nd tier at Strade and again now at the Giro, he lost San Remo, didn't race Flanders, and at LBL, the strongest opposition was again missing. He may have won all of those anyway, granted. But I think we can agree that "all the time" is an exaggeration.

So Martinez is 2nd tier as well? Former GC winner of Algarve, Basque Country and Dauphiné? Beat Evenepoel twice uphill in February...

 

[GuntherL1]

On the pod the other day Friebe at least acknowledged social media was blowing up with doping talk. The reaction of supposed journalist Brian Nygaard tells you everything. He said he hadn't bothered to look at social media and when Freibe asked him if there was any talk in the press room at the Giro, Nygaard gave a flat, "no". Basically, see, hear and speak no evil.

They don't want to lose access to Pogacar or worse, their jobs. Very few journalists dare to ask questions. That was not only the case with Armstrong. So many got away with it. Just take a look at Indurain, Gilbert in 2011, Froome on the e-bike on the Ventoux or 41 year old Vuelta winner Horner.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

So Martinez is 2nd tier as well? Former GC winner of Algarve, Basque Country and Dauphiné? Beat Evenepoel twice uphill in February...

The guy won two uphill sprints in February which elevated him to one of the elite GC riders

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So Martinez is 2nd tier as well? Former GC winner of Algarve, Basque Country and Dauphiné? Beat Evenepoel twice uphill in February...

Thomas is an accomplished GT rider, Martinez is also a proven stage-racer and so is O'Connor. Sure, Thomas is not at his best anymore. But let's be honest: everyone except Vingo and maybe Rogla would look second tier vs Pogacar in this race.

 

[GuntherL1]

The guy won two uphill sprints in February which elevated him to one of the elite GC riders

Slave Nuke, if you can keep Pidcock, Higuita, Arensman, Geoghegan Hart and Kuss at a distance, it does mean something. Anyway, do you know many 2nd tier riders that won GC in Algarve, Basque Country and Dauphiné?

 

[GuntherL1]

Thomas is an accomplished GT rider, Martinez is also a proven stage-racer and so is O'Connor. Sure, Thomas is not at his best anymore. But let's be honest: everyone except Vingo and maybe Rogla would look second tier vs Pogacar in this race.

I think Vingegaards performances in the TdF need some adjustment. In 2022, he beat Pogacar thanks to the teamwork and tactical errors by Pogacar. In 2023, Pogacar had a disturbed preparation, but still dropped Vingegaard, 3 times uphill. Vingegaards time trial was brilliant, but we forget that Pogacar finished second and put more than a minute on everyone else.
Rog and REv are equally matched and no competition for those two imho. I guess they're second tier as well.

 

[kingjr]

Slave Nuke, if you can keep Pidcock, Higuita, Arensman, Geoghegan Hart and Kuss at a distance, it does mean something. Anyway, do you know many 2nd tier riders that won GC in Algarve, Basque Country and Dauphiné?

Pogacar and Vingegaard are Tier 1A, Roglic and Evenepoel 1B, as they have already won more than just prep races.

 

[GuntherL1]

Pogacar and Vingegaard are Tier 1A, Roglic and Evenepoel 1B, as they have already won more than just prep races.

Ah, Basque country is a prep race now?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think Vingegaards performances in the TdF need some adjustment. In 2022, he beat Pogacar thanks to the teamwork and tactical errors by Pogacar. In 2023, Pogacar had a disturbed preparation, but still dropped Vingegaard, 3 times uphill. Vingegaards time trial was brilliant, but we forget that Pogacar finished second and put more than a minute on everyone else.
Rog and REv are equally matched and no competition for those two imho. I guess they're second tier as well.

It's enough to look what happened when Pog or Vingegaard pushed turbo button during recent Tours (or during their other stage races): everyone was pedalling backwards. It's no different in this Giro with only one of the two mutants present. Weaker field or not: it's only a matter of the 2nd guy being 5 minutes behind vs 7 minutes behind.

 

[jono]

Perhaps this is too general a question for this thread, but how would a peloton in which nobody is doping look different from one in which all the top guys are doping, as is presumed here?

Or are only Vingegaard and Pog on the good stuff?

 

[AmRacer]

Pogacar and Vingegaard are Tier 1A, Roglic and Evenepoel 1B, as they have already won more than just prep races.

In the peloton, there are others who have won more than prep races. I do hope a certain two time GT champion has found his legs again.

 

[AmRacer]

Perhaps this is too general a question for this thread, but how would a peloton in which nobody is doping look different from one in which all the top guys are doping, as is presumed here?

Or are only Vingegaard and Pog on the good stuff?

Or Pog vs Mathieu.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Perhaps this is too general a question for this thread, but how would a peloton in which nobody is doping look different from one in which all the top guys are doping, as is presumed here?

Or are only Vingegaard and Pog on the good stuff?

This is a good question. I suppose that big teams like JV and UAE have better possibilities of organizing top-end doping so the field is not equal at all. On top of that there is responding factor: one cyclist (i.e. a guy with excellent engine but average blood values) can respond better to blood doping than another (who has naturally high levels of hematocrit for example). If the second guy has only a slightly worse engine he will be worse in doping conditions but maybe slightly better if both ride paniagua (due to naturally better oxygen transport in blood).

 

[AmRacer]

This is a good question. I suppose that big teams like JV and UAE have better possibilities of organizing top-end doping so the field is not equal at all. On top of that there is responding factor: one cyclist (i.e. a guy with excellent engine but average blood values) can respond better to blood doping than another (who has naturally high levels of hematocrit for example).

MvdP says hi!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

MvdP says hi!

Alpecin guys want to keep their hair so no doping at all.

 

[GuntherL1]

Perhaps this is too general a question for this thread, but how would a peloton in which nobody is doping look different from one in which all the top guys are doping, as is presumed here?

Or are only Vingegaard and Pog on the good stuff?

I don't think all the top guys are doping. There's definitely something going on with Pogacar, but I don't see any extraordinary performances with his UAE colleagues. Even Evenepoel, Roglic, MvdP and Pidcock show consistency over the years and occasional weakness. Vingegaard and WVA are more suspicious of course, but it's not as obvious as Pogacar.