Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Ripper]

Has there ever been a question about doping during this Giro? This subject seems to be completely avoided recently. I mean we all know that Teddy is clean but some journalists can't help themselves usually while now there is nothing.

The silence has been deafening hasn't it? And there is so much money

 

[Andre]

Naively I try not to think that a lot of riders are doped with the most advanced methods ever, specially Pog and The Fish, but reality always pushes through in the end. Perhaps journalists don't even have half the freedom that they used to, and are not allowed to ask certain questions. But lately (and I speak only from what I have noticed) there is a lot of talk about him doping and thus ruining cycling once again. A lot of fans are or have been talking about it.

 

[Extinction]

Look at the difference, Pog just enters into his rythm and for the others a dark night descends. Ridiculous 😂

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In my opinion, they are doped, but they are not taking something illegal, and i think there's no secrets in the peloton, they are taking all the same.

This is not the way to break Teddy, Vingo had to keep pushing. JV tactics for Tourmalet was right: Pogi looked weaker the day before so they wanted to kill him and the draft in last steep kilometers wasn't big. If anything, the mistake was leading Pog on shallower Cauterets climb before Pog's attack and staying more in the wind between the climbs.

 

[Red Rick]

Naively I try not to think that a lot of riders are doped with the most advanced methods ever, specially Pog and The Fish, but reality always pushes through in the end. Perhaps journalists don't even have half the freedom that they used to, and are not allowed to ask certain questions. But lately (and I speak only from what I have noticed) there is a lot of talk about him doping and thus ruining cycling once again. A lot of fans are or have been talking about it.

You just don't bite the hand that feeds. Unless your niche as a journalist is that of an investigative journalist uncovering cheating and scandals, you just kiss ass and only that.

 

[Extinction]

Martinez vs Pogacar.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1793013133306380351

View: https://x.com/DeportColombia/status/1793013133306380351

I like him, he's human.

 

[Froome]

This is not the way to break Teddy, Vingo had to keep pushing. JV tactics for Tourmalet was right: Pogi looked weaker the day before so they wanted to kill him and the draft in last steep kilometers wasn't big. If anything, the mistake was leading Pog on shallower Cauterets climb before Pog's attack and staying more in the wind between the climbs.

Wrong quote but not worries 😅

In my opinion the plan of Visma was good but it was bad executed since the beginning of the stage, and i'm going to explain my point.

Firstable they didn’t make the race hard enough until the last 4/5 km of Tourmalet. They should had make the race hard on Aspin and in the first 13 km of Tourmalet to tire way more Pogacar.

This was the first mistake, and the biggest mistake, because the pace can't be hard if guys like Van Hooydonck are still pushing on Tourmalet. One of the reasons of this mistake was because in my opinion, they missed another stronger climber(behind Kuss and Kelderman), that's why i didn’t agree with the team Visma choosed for last year's Tour.

So, in my opinion the plan was bad executed until the last 4 Km of Tourmalet. The race should had been more hard until the last kilometres of Tourmalet.

The second mistake was Vingegaard pushing until the top of Tourmalet. When he saw he couldn't drop Pogacar, he should had stopped the attack 1/2 minute later and wait for Kuss.

The third mistake was attacking again on Cambasque when he was empty, because that situation plus what happened on Tourmalet, cost him about 20 seconds to Pogacar. He should had raced in a more defensive way on Cambasque because he had 1 min advantage in GC.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Yeah Vingegaard having a few cracks on Tourmalet was fine but he should've stopped the second it became clear Pogacar had used his first bag the night before, not drag him to the finish on his wheel.

 

[pastronef]

I don't think all the top guys are doping. There's definitely something going on with Pogacar, but I don't see any extraordinary performances with his UAE colleagues. Even Evenepoel, Roglic, MvdP and Pidcock show consistency over the years and occasional weakness. Vingegaard and WVA are more suspicious of course, but it's not as obvious as Pogacar.

TDF 2021 and 2022 ring a bell. what he did in Hautacam 2022 was huge.

 

[masking_agent]

Pogi looks fresher than a '99 Lance going up Sestriere. Not normal. Too bad there won't be any David Walsh's around to question Mauro and him.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Love this title from cyclingnews: "An accidental victory". Hilarious, even if not entirely accurate.

Also, why are so many people having a circle jerk about Poga possibly pulling a Pantani and winning the Tour as well? How is it a good thing to emulate a hyperdoped racer from the 90s? Seriously? I mean, I would almost post this in the professional forum, because it's not so much about doping directly as it is a question about why would people get excited about this possibility

Pantani also died under pretty sad circumstances, it's like he had nobody and he had been ostracized by the public after the doping scandal. It's only later that the public forgot and he has been hailed as a hero ever since. Pretty sad and nothing to emulate by the youngsters, imo.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Großschartner suffered a concussion on stage 11 and was allowed to continue by the doctor. What the ***.

Not the first time this year, took Yates looking like he'd gone 10 rounds with Mike Tyson and climbing him off himself to withdraw from the UAE tour.

 

[Extinction]

Pogi looks fresher than a '99 Lance going up Sestriere. Not normal. Too bad there won't be any David Walsh's around to question Mauro and him.

He's not American, so who cares, by which I mean there is no incentive in the Anglo-Saxon press to bring him down. What, do you expect the Slovenian dailies to do the dirty work?

 

[GuntherL1]

If you want to play such a stupid game... Both Narvaez and Schachmann beat Pog, even though he really wanted to win.

That's not the point and you know it. We've never seen this kind of day by day dominance against the entire peloton. Every single GT winner had to take it easy from time to time, but this guy competes for victory every time he wants to , even against riders that single out a specific stage. It is unseen and completely ridiculous.

 

[GuntherL1]

You talked about tatical errors, what about the tatical errors Vingegaard did on Tourmalet and Cambasque? The only time he was dropped.

The price for tactical errors isn't always the same. By responding to every Roglic attack, he exhausted himself and paid dearly for it.

 

[GuntherL1]

In my opinion, they are doped, but they are not taking something illegal, and i think there's no secrets in the peloton, they are taking all the same.

Well... Gianetti took Perfluorocarbon in 1998 which nearly killed him. I'm pretty sure the majority of the peloton didn't take it. If he did it to himself, why do you think he would show restraint today?

 

[Extinction]

That's not the point and you know it. We've never seen this kind of day by day dominance against the entire peloton. Every single GT winner had to take it easy from time to time, but this guy competes for victory every time he wants to , even against riders that single out a specific stage. It is unseen and completely ridiculous.

More than this, he's on cruise control and I have never seen anything like it. He doesn't suffer. It's not normal, unless, despite Gianetti and Arab sport washing money, he is the real deal. If his talent carries him, it's nothing short of sensational. He is clearly super talented, but, in my opinion, there's something going on in addition.

 

[Froome]

More than this, he's on cruise control and I have never seen anything like it. He doesn't suffer. It's not normal, unless, despite Gianetti and Arab sport washing money, he is the real deal. If his talent carries him, it's nothing short of sensational. He is clearly super talented, but, in my opinion, there's something going on in addition.

Why Pogacar would suffer against Martinez and this old version of Thomas? It would be a surprise if that happened.

If i see Pogacar absolutely beating Vingegaard, or Remco, Roglic or Van der poel without looking like he is suffering, then i will be very surprised!

 

[Extinction]

Why Pogacar would suffer against Martinez and this old version of Thomas? It would be a surprise if that happened.

If i see Pogacar absolutely beating Vingegaard, or Remco, Roglic or Van der poel without looking like he is suffering, then i will be very surprised!

Yea, but they aren't amateurs. Some damn fatigue has to set in. Yet he's three times superior and evidently has been the entire season. There's no question with him. If this goes on for 10 years, I'll exit stage left, not because he wins, but that he's out on a medium effort. It's not possible.

 

[Froome]

Yea, but they aren't amateurs. Some damn fatigue has to set in. Yet he's three times superior and evidently has been the entire season. There's no question with him. If this goes on for 10 years, I'll exit stage left.

No disrespect to them, but honestly they are like the third lines of GC riders and that increases even more the gap.

Let's say Pogacar is Man city....then Man city is facing teams from the conference league on this Giro. He is not facing anyone of the champions league (Vingegaard, Roglic, Remco) or anyone from the europe league (Hindley, Carapaz, Carlos Rodriguez, Bernal, Mas, Hart).

If we look at Bora, they are racing with Martinez, when they have in the roster Roglic, Vlasov and Hindley who are stronger than him.

Ineos is there with this old version of Thomas who is not better than the version of Carlos Rodriguez Tour 2023 or i risk to say Bernal.

 

[Extinction]

Think about it, Thomas didn't have the legs to go and Pogacar was just soft peddling

 

[Extinction]

No disrespect to them, but honestly they are like the third lines of GC riders and that increases even more the gap.

Let's say Pogacar is Man city....then Man city is facing teams from the conference league on this Giro. He is not facing anyone of the champions league (Vingegaard, Roglic, Remco) or anyone from the europe league (Hindley, Carapaz, Carlos Rodriguez, Bernal, Mas, Hart).

If we look at Bora, they are racing with Martinez, when they have in the roster Roglic, Vlasov and Hindley who are stronger than him.

Ineos is there with this old version of Thomas who is not better than the version of Carlos Rodriguez Tour 2023 or i risk to say Bernal.

But the peak of the pyramid should not exist from February to October. Come on, it's ridiculous and on that team.

 

[Tim Cahill]

He's not American, so who cares, by which I mean there is no incentive in the Anglo-Saxon press to bring him down. What, do you expect the Slovenian dailies to do the dirty work?

Yes, being English and therefore consumed by a colonialist mentality I obviously cant get involved, but I am certainly looking forward to taking a backseat in this one, and watching all the the legendary, iconoclastic Central and Eastern European names in the investigative sports press asking hard-hitting questions now their guys are in charge and winning things. Who is the Slovenian Kimmage, only time will tell!

Wiggo and the others deserved a bit of grief for it of course, but seeing him frogmarched infront of parliamentary committees and the Andrew Marr show on Sunday morning for some dodgy asthma and allergy meds, funny as it was, does at least show some kind of willingness to hold people to account, same thing with Armstrong. I wonder if we will see the same with the current crop.

Where's Digger anyway, last I saw he was going mad about Covid and George Soros on twitter.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No disrespect to them, but honestly they are like the third lines of GC riders and that increases even more the gap.

Let's say Pogacar is Man city....then Man city is facing teams from the conference league on this Giro. He is not facing anyone of the champions league (Vingegaard, Roglic, Remco) or anyone from the europe league (Hindley, Carapaz, Carlos Rodriguez, Bernal, Mas, Hart).

If we look at Bora, they are racing with Martinez, when they have in the roster Roglic, Vlasov and Hindley who are stronger than him.

Ineos is there with this old version of Thomas who is not better than the version of Carlos Rodriguez Tour 2023 or i risk to say Bernal.

There's no reason to think that your Europe league guys are suddenly much better than Thomas or Martinez. It's the same league. Teddy makes them look like amateurs (the way he and Vingo did at recent Tours), it's nothing new, really. Maybe some top guys could've been in a better form but it's just a matter of being 5 minutes behind vs 8 minutes behind. No game-changer in the GC.

 

[pastronef]

Where's Digger anyway

Sky and the Brits stopped dominating: he's gone. like so many others, Oufeh, Maximus, etc