Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[GuntherL1]

In my opinion, they are doped, but they are not taking something illegal, and i think there's no secrets in the peloton, they are taking all the same.

Well... Gianetti took Perfluorocarbon in 1998 which nearly killed him. I'm pretty sure the majority of the peloton didn't take it. If he did it to himself, why do you think he would show restraint today?

 

[Extinction]

That's not the point and you know it. We've never seen this kind of day by day dominance against the entire peloton. Every single GT winner had to take it easy from time to time, but this guy competes for victory every time he wants to , even against riders that single out a specific stage. It is unseen and completely ridiculous.

More than this, he's on cruise control and I have never seen anything like it. He doesn't suffer. It's not normal, unless, despite Gianetti and Arab sport washing money, he is the real deal. If his talent carries him, it's nothing short of sensational. He is clearly super talented, but, in my opinion, there's something going on in addition.

 

[Froome]

More than this, he's on cruise control and I have never seen anything like it. He doesn't suffer. It's not normal, unless, despite Gianetti and Arab sport washing money, he is the real deal. If his talent carries him, it's nothing short of sensational. He is clearly super talented, but, in my opinion, there's something going on in addition.

Why Pogacar would suffer against Martinez and this old version of Thomas? It would be a surprise if that happened.

If i see Pogacar absolutely beating Vingegaard, or Remco, Roglic or Van der poel without looking like he is suffering, then i will be very surprised!

 

[Extinction]

Why Pogacar would suffer against Martinez and this old version of Thomas? It would be a surprise if that happened.

If i see Pogacar absolutely beating Vingegaard, or Remco, Roglic or Van der poel without looking like he is suffering, then i will be very surprised!

Yea, but they aren't amateurs. Some damn fatigue has to set in. Yet he's three times superior and evidently has been the entire season. There's no question with him. If this goes on for 10 years, I'll exit stage left, not because he wins, but that he's out on a medium effort. It's not possible.

 

[Froome]

Yea, but they aren't amateurs. Some damn fatigue has to set in. Yet he's three times superior and evidently has been the entire season. There's no question with him. If this goes on for 10 years, I'll exit stage left.

No disrespect to them, but honestly they are like the third lines of GC riders and that increases even more the gap.

Let's say Pogacar is Man city....then Man city is facing teams from the conference league on this Giro. He is not facing anyone of the champions league (Vingegaard, Roglic, Remco) or anyone from the europe league (Hindley, Carapaz, Carlos Rodriguez, Bernal, Mas, Hart).

If we look at Bora, they are racing with Martinez, when they have in the roster Roglic, Vlasov and Hindley who are stronger than him.

Ineos is there with this old version of Thomas who is not better than the version of Carlos Rodriguez Tour 2023 or i risk to say Bernal.

 

[Extinction]

Think about it, Thomas didn't have the legs to go and Pogacar was just soft peddling

 

[Extinction]

No disrespect to them, but honestly they are like the third lines of GC riders and that increases even more the gap.

Let's say Pogacar is Man city....then Man city is facing teams from the conference league on this Giro. He is not facing anyone of the champions league (Vingegaard, Roglic, Remco) or anyone from the europe league (Hindley, Carapaz, Carlos Rodriguez, Bernal, Mas, Hart).

If we look at Bora, they are racing with Martinez, when they have in the roster Roglic, Vlasov and Hindley who are stronger than him.

Ineos is there with this old version of Thomas who is not better than the version of Carlos Rodriguez Tour 2023 or i risk to say Bernal.

But the peak of the pyramid should not exist from February to October. Come on, it's ridiculous and on that team.

 

[Tim Cahill]

He's not American, so who cares, by which I mean there is no incentive in the Anglo-Saxon press to bring him down. What, do you expect the Slovenian dailies to do the dirty work?

Yes, being English and therefore consumed by a colonialist mentality I obviously cant get involved, but I am certainly looking forward to taking a backseat in this one, and watching all the the legendary, iconoclastic Central and Eastern European names in the investigative sports press asking hard-hitting questions now their guys are in charge and winning things. Who is the Slovenian Kimmage, only time will tell!

Wiggo and the others deserved a bit of grief for it of course, but seeing him frogmarched infront of parliamentary committees and the Andrew Marr show on Sunday morning for some dodgy asthma and allergy meds, funny as it was, does at least show some kind of willingness to hold people to account, same thing with Armstrong. I wonder if we will see the same with the current crop.

Where's Digger anyway, last I saw he was going mad about Covid and George Soros on twitter.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No disrespect to them, but honestly they are like the third lines of GC riders and that increases even more the gap.

Let's say Pogacar is Man city....then Man city is facing teams from the conference league on this Giro. He is not facing anyone of the champions league (Vingegaard, Roglic, Remco) or anyone from the europe league (Hindley, Carapaz, Carlos Rodriguez, Bernal, Mas, Hart).

If we look at Bora, they are racing with Martinez, when they have in the roster Roglic, Vlasov and Hindley who are stronger than him.

Ineos is there with this old version of Thomas who is not better than the version of Carlos Rodriguez Tour 2023 or i risk to say Bernal.

There's no reason to think that your Europe league guys are suddenly much better than Thomas or Martinez. It's the same league. Teddy makes them look like amateurs (the way he and Vingo did at recent Tours), it's nothing new, really. Maybe some top guys could've been in a better form but it's just a matter of being 5 minutes behind vs 8 minutes behind. No game-changer in the GC.

 

[pastronef]

Where's Digger anyway

Sky and the Brits stopped dominating: he's gone. like so many others, Oufeh, Maximus, etc

 

[the delgados]

Close sources are saying UAE brass are in a state of disarray after today's stage where team leader Tadej Pogacar lost the race, and are wondering where it all went wrong.
A dejected director sportif Andrej Hauptman addressed the media after Tadej's second place finish by saying "We've worked all year to win almost every stage in the Giro and this stage was one of them. We're going to look further into what went wrong after the Giro, but we've got a stage to win tomorrow."

 

[veganrob]

Naively I try not to think that a lot of riders are doped with the most advanced methods ever, specially Pog and The Fish, but reality always pushes through in the end. Perhaps journalists don't even have half the freedom that they used to, and are not allowed to ask certain questions. But lately (and I speak only from what I have noticed) there is a lot of talk about him doping and thus ruining cycling once again. A lot of fans are or have been talking about it.

Who is talking about it? The members on CN? Nobody cares about that. Wake up

 

[Slavique Nuke]

That's not the point and you know it. We've never seen this kind of day by day dominance against the entire peloton. Every single GT winner had to take it easy from time to time, but this guy competes for victory every time he wants to , even against riders that single out a specific stage. It is unseen and completely ridiculous.

I'm not sure if you actually watch cycling or understand what's going on there. In the stages Pog won, he was always a massive favourite. The Giro route is very easy and the quality of the startlist is extremely low. The question has always been how many stages he wants to win. Literally everything at the Giro is what everyone expected.

So I don't know why the trolls are surprised now.

 

[Cookster15]

Pantani also died under pretty sad circumstances, it's like he had nobody and he had been ostracized by the public after the doping scandal. It's only later that the public forgot and he has been hailed as a hero ever since. Pretty sad and nothing to emulate by the youngsters, imo.

I disagree with the bold - my impression was Pantani was a hero to many ever since he arrived on the scene in 1994. At that time the sport was dominated by big powerful riders like Indurain and Ullrich. The introverted Marco Pantani was the classic David and Goliath. Everyone knew about EPO then but we also accepted that almost all pros used it.

I was following cycling closely during Pantani's era. He was super popular long before the 1999 Giro. Many of us felt he was a victom of the times and no villain. His demise is one of, if not, the saddest things I have watched since following the sport.

 

[ivanic]

the problem aren't Martinez, Thomas, Bardet, the problem is that he makes them look stupid. They're *** world-class riders. Have you seen Martinez? He was dying of fatigue after the finish line

Pogačar Stomps the Competition in Livigno's Thin Air | Giro d'Italia Stage 15 2024 - Lanterne Rouge

Tadej Pogačar continued his domination in the 2024 Giro d'Italia with an impressive victory on the queen stage, dropping easily all of his GC rivals on Foscagno and later surpassing the strongest breakaway rider, Nairo Quintana, on the final climb.

lanternerouge.com

Livigno and the two ITT can't be clean performances. And maybe only during Perugia ITT he was in red zone.

 

[Ripper]

Why Pogacar would suffer against Martinez and this old version of Thomas? It would be a surprise if that happened.

If i see Pogacar absolutely beating Vingegaard, or Remco, Roglic or Van der poel without looking like he is suffering, then i will be very surprised!

Because racing grand tours is not a video game. It almost doesn't matter what level of competition is when he is able to put on demonstrations of power such that he is, seemingly whenever he wants

 

[Froome]

Because racing grand tours is not a video game. It almost doesn't matter what level of competition is when he is able to put on demonstrations of power such that he is, seemingly whenever he wants

He is a generational talent, i find it normal what happened on this Giro, against this field.

If he toys in the Tour with all the other top riders or with Van der poel in other races, then i will be more "surprised" and thinking something is really really wrong.

 

[Ripper]

He is a generational talent, i find it normal what happened on this Giro, against this field.

If he toys in the Tour with all the other top riders or with Van der poel in other races, then i will be more "surprised" and thinking something is really really wrong.

I see where you're coming from and I think we just disagree. I agree it's no surprise he's winning, nor is it a surprise to me that he is winning by as much as he is, or even how many stages he's taken. However, his ease of peddling at such accelerated rates ... in other words, the context and means by which he wins has me laughing, and not in a good way.

 

[Ripper]

I disagree with the bold - my impression was Pantani was a hero to many ever since he arrived on the scene in 1994. At that time the sport was dominated by big powerful riders like Indurain and Ullrich. The introverted Marco Pantani was the classic David and Goliath. Everyone knew about EPO then but we also accepted that almost all pros used it.

I was following cycling closely during Pantani's era. He was super popular long before the 1999 Giro. Many of us felt he was a victom of the times and no villain. His demise is one of, if not, the saddest things I have watched since following the sport.

It was extremely sad.

Regarding the section I bolded, no, not everyone knew.

 

[AmRacer]

That's not the point and you know it. We've never seen this kind of day by day dominance against the entire peloton. Every single GT winner had to take it easy from time to time, but this guy competes for victory every time he wants to , even against riders that single out a specific stage. It is unseen and completely ridiculous.

Peak Jonas could do exactly the same.

 

[Cookster15]

It was extremely sad.

Regarding the section I bolded, no, not everyone knew.

Well I am surprised, as like I said, I was following the sport closely back then. Even in Australia we all accepted the peloton was using EPO. It was all over our media here - including the stories of athletes dying in their sleep.

 

[Ripper]

Well I am surprised, as like I said, I was following the sport closely back then. Even in Australia we all accepted the peloton was using EPO. It was all over our media here - including the stories of athletes dying in their sleep.

I was pretty young and new at racing then, but I gathered from some other riders that they were also unaware until a few years after

 

[Froome]

I see where you're coming from and I think we just disagree. I agree it's no surprise he's winning, nor is it a surprise to me that he is winning by as much as he is, or even how many stages he's taken. However, his ease of peddling at such accelerated rates ... in other words, the context and means by which he wins has me laughing, and not in a good way.

I finded a "bit" more outrageous when he beat Van der Poel at Flandres.

 

[Extinction]

Peak Jonas could do exactly the same.

I'd like to see in the Giro. for which everything has changed since 95. Before then the Giro was a metric for being il campionissimo with the Tour. Since then the Giro has become an afterthought or at best a training ride for all but Italians. Yet the mystic of doing the double still strangely prevails. Maybe Pogacar.

 

[pastronef]

I'd like to see in the Giro. for which everything has changed since 95. Before that the Giro was a metric for being il campionissimo with the Tour. Since then the Giro has become an afterthought or at best a training ride for all but Italians. Yet the mystic of doing the double still strangely prevails. Maybe Pogacar.

Dumoulin, Hindley, Hesjedal, Froome, Menchov etc disagree