Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[GuntherL1]

Well Landa, Vlasov and Mas are not stronger riders than those currently behind Pog at this Giro. You’d could make a case for Kuss on last year’s Vuelta but Landa was convincingly beaten by Jai Hindley two years ago.

You’d have more credibility if you commented about any other rider - including Vingegaard? You are certainly not impartial and this is the biggest issue I have with your opinion as the OP. A thread on Pog would have been posted by someone else anyway after the 2020 TdF knowing what happened on stage 20 and the sport’s history. But other posters are not so myopic IMO. For example we know @Froome is a big Vingegaard fan here but way more fair and objective.

Yeah, Mas only finished 2nd in the Vuelta GC 3 times. What a fourth tier loser he is. So Kuss is better with his more or less gifted Vuelta? Interesting.

I'm not a Vingegaard fan and I don't trust his meteoric rise. I have also called out Gilberts 2011, Horners Vuelta win and Froome on the Ventoux so I have no idea why I wouldn't be fair or objective. I don't have the obligation to comment on each suspicious rider. Pogacar is the most notable as he does his thing on every terrain and his team is managed by someone who should not be active in cycling any more (and surrounded by other crooks for that matter). That's why I included the Suisse cheater in the name of the topic.

 

[GuntherL1]

Pog takes 1min 45 sec on 6 km of climbing on the rest of the 'elite' climbers and it's not even the first time this Giro. Generational talent. LOL.

 

[GuntherL1]

This is hilarious.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794379638023868663

View: https://x.com/WattsinCycling/status/1794379638023868663

 

[Ripper]

This is hilarious.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794379638023868663

View: https://x.com/WattsinCycling/status/1794379638023868663

Indeed. I thought we would see some watt bombage today. Boyo is on a mission. Today is a combination of climbing practice and time trial practice, as evidenced by the continual pressing at the front. It's not enough to win.

I think somewhere, someone made a comment about Toto not really caring about records; I would completely disagree with that though, he seems very much interested in records and setting his own legacy.

 

[Red Rick]

Less than a minute on a 2014 climbing time on a >50 minute climb with teammates setting you up?

In terms of pure W/kg bombs this Giro hasn't delivered

 

[Peyroteo94]

Less than a minute on a 2014 climbing time on a >50 minute climb with teammates setting you up?

In terms of pure W/kg bombs this Giro hasn't delivered

Double ascent and his team doesn't have enough climbers to put a insane pace for 30 minutes.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Wow

 

[GuntherL1]

Less than a minute on a 2014 climbing time on a >50 minute climb with teammates setting you up?

In terms of pure W/kg bombs this Giro hasn't delivered

I would expect a 26,8 km TT to go faster than a 184 km stage with a double ascent.
The two fastest times on the Mont Ventoux came from the TT in theDauphiné 2004. None of the TdF climbs ever came close, not in even the EPO years of 1994 and 1999.
That tells you how 'special' Pogacars performance was today.

Speed & Glory on Mont Ventoux: TOP 50 fastest rides on the Giant of Provence

© Cyclingnews/John Pierce 1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h 2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h 3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan V...

www.climbing-records.com

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Less than a minute on a 2014 climbing time on a >50 minute climb with teammates setting you up?

In terms of pure W/kg bombs this Giro hasn't delivered

I would expect Pogacar to be faster in a standalone effort actually, instead of being paced by Bjerg for a few km (without gaining anything on Pelizzari). He did 1720 m/h of VAM for almost 52 minutes which is a very strong effort. However, excluding two downhill/flat sections, he did 1770 m/h of VAM for 50 minutes, which is incredible performance.

 

[Netserk]

I would expect a 26,8 km TT to go faster than a 184 km stage with a double ascent.
The two fastest times on the Mont Ventoux came from the TT in theDauphiné 2004. None of the TdF climbs ever came close, not in even the EPO years of 1994 and 1999.
That tells you how 'special' Pogacars performance was today.

Speed & Glory on Mont Ventoux: TOP 50 fastest rides on the Giant of Provence

© Cyclingnews/John Pierce 1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h 2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h 3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan V...

www.climbing-records.com

Ventoux was a MTT in 1987. In a normal stage in 1994, Pantani was nearly 4 minutes faster.

Fast era beats slow era, MTT or not.

 

[kingjr]

Pantani's 95 and 97 times up AdH are also faster than Armstrong's TT in 04

 

[Peyroteo94]

If we had a MTT on Grappa, Pogacar would be under 51 minutes.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I would expect a 26,8 km TT to go faster than a 184 km stage with a double ascent.
The two fastest times on the Mont Ventoux came from the TT in theDauphiné 2004. None of the TdF climbs ever came close, not in even the EPO years of 1994 and 1999.
That tells you how 'special' Pogacars performance was today.

Speed & Glory on Mont Ventoux: TOP 50 fastest rides on the Giant of Provence

© Cyclingnews/John Pierce 1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h 2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h 3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan V...

www.climbing-records.com

26 km TT just means you‘re already pushing for a few kilometers before the climb and they also had to do another kilometer to the very top of Grappa

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pantani's 95 and 97 times up AdH are also faster than Armstrong's TT in 04

90s times were much faster than anything before and after, Pantani or no Pantani. Mt Ventoux TTs clearly suggest that for such long climbs a standalone performance is better due to even pacing: just look how for first few km Pelizzarri advantage didn't change much due to slower UAE pace-makers. Alpe ITT was also great: Armstrong beat his own spectacular 2001 climbing, so did Ullrich vs 2001. There's no doubt in my mind that Pogacar could have ridden even faster in a standalone TT.

 

[kingjr]

90s times were much faster than anything before and after, Pantani or no Pantani. Mt Ventoux TTs clearly suggest that for such long climbs a standalone performance is better due to even pacing: just look how for first few km Pelizzarri advantage didn't change much due to slower UAE pace-makers. Alpe ITT was also great: Armstrong beat his own spectacular 2001 climbing, so did Ullrich vs 2001. There's no doubt in my mind that Pogacar could have ridden even faster in a standalone TT.

Ullrich's 2001 climb was unimpressive anyway, he barely gapped Beloki and Christophe Moreau.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Ullrich's 2001 climb was unimpressive anyway, he barely gapped Beloki and Christophe Moreau.

Kloden's time in ITT 2004 (was third with a large gap to Armstrong and Ullrich) was almost as good as Mayo's climb the year before though.

 

[Red Rick]

90s times were much faster than anything before and after, Pantani or no Pantani. Mt Ventoux TTs clearly suggest that for such long climbs a standalone performance is better due to even pacing: just look how for first few km Pelizzarri advantage didn't change much due to slower UAE pace-makers. Alpe ITT was also great: Armstrong beat his own spectacular 2001 climbing, so did Ullrich vs 2001. There's no doubt in my mind that Pogacar could have ridden even faster in a standalone TT.

What also happens is you get a false idea of pacing cause if everybody follows the group at first when they try to set up Pogacar initially nobody will drop when a Grosschartner is doing like 5.9-6W/kg

Pogacar is meanwhile saving >0.1W/kg very consistently on the 60% of the climb before he attacks.

 

[Red Rick]

To me the problem with Ventoux is it's an extremely wind dependent climb to make a strong comparison between MTT versus road stage.

I think the 1st ascent is a much bigger factor, and I also think that the difference for a guy who is below threshold the entire first ascent is likely gonna be under a minute.

 

[kingjr]

Kloden's time in ITT 2004 (was third with a large gap to Armstrong and Ullrich) was almost as good as Mayo's climb the year before though.

I've lost track of what point either of us is making, but in 2003, Mayo was the only one who wasn't bad that day.

 

[Ripper]

It was an alien performance FFS. End of a GT, one of the fastest if not the fastest ever Giro, double ascent, only launched it part way up, and absolutely torched everyone.

There are going to be a lot of "yeah, buts", it for anybody who does the math, it adds up to ultra dodgy poop filled diaper performance.

 

[Ripper]

Keep in mind greedy mouse really did go for it in the second time trial. And just about made it. He was really trying to win as many stages as he could

 

[Ripper]

Finally, I don't even think performances like this bother me terribly much. The circle jerk of fanboys over any particular doper is, however, perplexing.

 

[BullsFan22]

Finally, I don't even think performances like this bother me terribly much. The circle jerk of fanboys over any particular doper is, however, perplexing.

3 straight comments about the performance tells me that it does, in fact, bother you terribly.

 

[GuntherL1]

Ventoux was a MTT in 1987. In a normal stage in 1994, Pantani was nearly 4 minutes faster.

Fast era beats slow era, MTT or not.

Are you really comparing pre-EPO era with peak EPO era?

 

[Ripper]

3 straight comments about the performance tells me that it does, in fact, bother you terribly.

I tuned in after watching some live mountain biking and had a few minutes!

On the other hand, you care greatly about adding no value to this thread whatsoever 😉