Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Rackham]

L.A. has spoken:

Armstrong over 'onnodige aanval' van Pogacar: "Als er al speculatie is, dan helpt dit niet"

Tadej Pogacar had voor de start van de zeventiende etappe al een op het oog geruststellende voorsprong in het klassement, maar de Sloveen kon het toch niet laten om in de aanval te gaan. Lance Armstrong keek hoofdschuddend naar zijn optreden. “Ik zou hem het advies geven om zich wat meer gedeisd...

www.wielerflits.nl

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813728166625870134

View: https://x.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1813728166625870134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1813728166625870134%7Ctwgr%5E8dfd3a39a05a6246ec73e7683ef072238f1e4eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wielerflits.nl%2Fnieuws%2Farmstrong-over-onnodige-aanval-van-pogacar-als-er-al-speculatie-is-dan-helpt-dit-niet%2F

 

[Nick2413]

L.A. has spoken:

Armstrong over 'onnodige aanval' van Pogacar: "Als er al speculatie is, dan helpt dit niet"

Tadej Pogacar had voor de start van de zeventiende etappe al een op het oog geruststellende voorsprong in het klassement, maar de Sloveen kon het toch niet laten om in de aanval te gaan. Lance Armstrong keek hoofdschuddend naar zijn optreden. “Ik zou hem het advies geven om zich wat meer gedeisd...

www.wielerflits.nl

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813728166625870134

View: https://x.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1813728166625870134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1813728166625870134%7Ctwgr%5E8dfd3a39a05a6246ec73e7683ef072238f1e4eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wielerflits.nl%2Fnieuws%2Farmstrong-over-onnodige-aanval-van-pogacar-als-er-al-speculatie-is-dan-helpt-dit-niet%2F

This is an outright claim he thinks he’s doping imo. You would never say that otherwise. Stop attacking so they don’t get suspicious.

 

[Rackham]

This is an outright claim he thinks he’s doping imo. You would never say that otherwise. Stop attacking so they don’t get suspicious.

I'll be honest I didn't expect Armstrong of all people to be so forthright about Pog's situation. The easier option is to just dance along & sing kumbaya with all the other influencers/podcasters/youtubers & media who're profiteering from the razzmatazz of current pro cycling with all its bombastic superstars (namely Pog but there are a few others as well) who're smashing records & power data left right & center.

The traditional boom/bust cycle of the Tour de France isn't complete... until there's a bust. One could argue this could perhaps be in Armstrong's favor as well i.e. any downfall of Pog, Vinge & the others would automatically have an effect on Armstrong's legacy in the sense he could easily say "it wasn't me, it's the sport".

And he'd be right, whether people like it or not.

 

[DrSahl]

This is an outright claim he thinks he’s doping imo. You would never say that otherwise. Stop attacking so they don’t get suspicious.

Well obviously.
Do anyone have any doubt about that? If so no wonder nothing changes.

 

[Rackham]

Well obviously.
Do anyone have any doubt about that? If so no wonder nothing changes.

There's never been so little interest in doping. It took Pog & Vinge posting delirious numbers on Sunday along with the carbon monoxide story to jumpstart some obvious questions.

Froome & co had it way worse ten years ago. They used to get absolutely grilled on their performances. Even Jumbo & Rog had a hard time before that infamous ITT 4 years ago (remember the Zeeman incident on Loze when the commissaires destroyed Rog's bike looking for a motor?).

These days it's all about how great the new generation is because they love cycling so much & they attack a lot.

 

[Nick2413]

One could argue this could perhaps be in Armstrong's favor as well i.e. any downfall of Pog, Vinge & the others would automatically have an effect on Armstrong's legacy in the sense he could easily say "it wasn't me, it's the sport".

No doubt. I mean, the media and masses will still find a way to say his doping was much worse (never mind how he handled it), but in every empirical way it’s in his favor. As good of a liar he is, I think it’s just impossible for him to host a cycling podcast where he dissects performances and doesn’t subconsciously let it slip that they’re all on stuff, i.e here saying Pog should avoid making people suspicious. I don’t know how anyone can hear him say that without immediately understanding the implications of what he’s saying.

 

[DrSahl]

There's never been so little interest in doping. It took Pog & Vinge posting delirious numbers on Sunday along with the carbon monoxide story to jumpstart some obvious questions.

Froome & co had it way worse ten years ago. They used to get absolutely grilled on their performances. Even Jumbo & Rog had a hard time before that infamous ITT 4 years ago (remember the Zeeman incident on Loze when the commissaires destroyed Rog's bike looking for a motor?).

These days it's all about how great the new generation is because they love cycling so much & they attack a lot.

All I know have been critical since well forever.. they have never seen much improvement.
Froome did kickstart an Armstrong era again for many and Pog / Vinge is just next level in terms of performance.. I agree that many of the others atleast tried to dial back on too crazy stuff.

The younger fans or incoming fans seems to love Pog and Vinge however, even if they understand they are not clean and yes they do seem to love all the massive super human attacks..
Personally I love it when you see riders have full cycle of emotions and variation in performance..

Pog and Vinge don´t really have "bad days" per say. They have "Only slightly better than Pantani" days.


I don´t think Pog cares, he is protected. His very liked in the media and by fans, Vinge not as much, but still enough to garner protection.. We have seen this with others as well. When riders are not very liked, they tend to suddenly get caught.

 

[Ruklaw]

Yeah, I mean it's obvious that these riders are doping, and it's also obvious they ain't getting popped.

The reason can be summarized in a pub quiz question that also came up on Lance's podcast - who was the last Belgian to podium on the tour?

The answer is Jurgen Van Den Broeck in 2010 - but most people don't know that as he finished 5th at the time.

Menchov and Contador got popped so he's been promoted to the podium.

It doesn't really look great for a sport when the guy that came 5th ends up coming 3rd - better to keep things brushed under the carpet and sell the product.

 

[ashhutch1997]

There's never been so little interest in doping. It took Pog & Vinge posting delirious numbers on Sunday along with the carbon monoxide story to jumpstart some obvious questions.

Froome & co had it way worse ten years ago. They used to get absolutely grilled on their performances. Even Jumbo & Rog had a hard time before that infamous ITT 4 years ago (remember the Zeeman incident on Loze when the commissaires destroyed Rog's bike looking for a motor?).

These days it's all about how great the new generation is because they love cycling so much & they attack a lot.

Very true, I think the reason why Sky got so much stick off the press and fans was because it was just after Lance came out, so us cycling fans were very sensitive.

 

[Froome]

Very true, I think the reason why Sky got so much stick off the press and fans was because it was just after Lance came out, so us cycling fans were very sensitive.

Froome was almost "killed" just because he did 6.1 w/kg on La pierre saint martin in 40 min.

 

[Extinction]

L.A. has spoken:

Armstrong over 'onnodige aanval' van Pogacar: "Als er al speculatie is, dan helpt dit niet"

Tadej Pogacar had voor de start van de zeventiende etappe al een op het oog geruststellende voorsprong in het klassement, maar de Sloveen kon het toch niet laten om in de aanval te gaan. Lance Armstrong keek hoofdschuddend naar zijn optreden. “Ik zou hem het advies geven om zich wat meer gedeisd...

www.wielerflits.nl

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813728166625870134

View: https://x.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1813728166625870134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1813728166625870134%7Ctwgr%5E8dfd3a39a05a6246ec73e7683ef072238f1e4eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wielerflits.nl%2Fnieuws%2Farmstrong-over-onnodige-aanval-van-pogacar-als-er-al-speculatie-is-dan-helpt-dit-niet%2F

So, managing the political perception is more important than being clean. Got it.

 

[houtdffan]

This forum explicitly cited

Tadej Pogacar answers carbon monoxide rebreathing rumours and 'Mou': "It’s not like we’re breathing exhaust pipes every day in the cars"

Tadej Pogacar has been absolutely headlining this Tour de France with incredibly performances in all terrains and a popularity that never fades. But he's also been in the spotlight for other reasons o...

cyclinguptodate.com

Pogacar has also been asked about 'Mou', a Cyclingnews forum user that back in February and March claimed to be quite close to the Slovenian and extensively talked about details in his changes in training, preparation, coaches and predicted his significant improval in 2024.

 

[Nick2413]

This forum explicitly cited

Tadej Pogacar answers carbon monoxide rebreathing rumours and 'Mou': "It’s not like we’re breathing exhaust pipes every day in the cars"

Tadej Pogacar has been absolutely headlining this Tour de France with incredibly performances in all terrains and a popularity that never fades. But he's also been in the spotlight for other reasons o...

cyclinguptodate.com

Pogacar has also been asked about 'Mou', a Cyclingnews forum user that back in February and March claimed to be quite close to the Slovenian and extensively talked about details in his changes in training, preparation, coaches and predicted his significant improval in 2024.

It’s impossible to think Pog had significant room to improve without doping. If Mou really was an insider, he also knew the regimen would be changing. If only he could give us actually useful info about stuff like that.

 

[JWTS]

I am a frequent reader here, first time poster. But I joined because I’ve been seeing a lot of comments lately about how aerodynamic improvements are contributing to these performances.

Aero no doubt gets better and better, but every single quantification of the actual difference it makes in a bike race I’ve ever seen has been a full blown guess. Having designed control surfaces for aircraft most of my life I can assure you that no one is actually modeling out any of this bike stuff with any degree of accuracy, nor is that even possible to do.

I can tell you with 100% accuracy that this is not correct.. 1) yes, teams are certainly modeling actual conditions, and 2) it's absolutely possible to do.

It's not rocket surgery... You simply have to control the variables, and with with ability to measure real-time conditions on the bike, the actual impact of aerodynamics racing, in a pack, riding in a 4 person break, riding in a two-person break, standing vs. sitting, having a moto behind you...all of these things are well-understood, at least by the top teams.

Yes, the gains are often "maximized to the extreme" for marketing purposes, but the well-funded teams completely understand the actual differences.

I can also tell you with 100% accuracy that the improvements in all of this stuff in--aerodynamics, drivetrain efficiency, and rolling resistance--in no way explain some of the recent performances...

 

[Salvarani]

Most pro riders are doing something just to be there. It is evident it is in the identity of the sport. They arent able to ride amount of races and the length of them to compete/race, without being on something. Do it or don’t be a pro. Everybody knows.

This is so deep-rooted and goes back to the very start of it all.

 

[Mr. 64%]

I can tell you with 100% accuracy that this is not correct.. 1) yes, teams are certainly modeling actual conditions, and 2) it's absolutely possible to do.

It's not rocket surgery... You simply have to control the variables, and with with ability to measure real-time conditions on the bike, the actual impact of aerodynamics racing, in a pack, riding in a 4 person break, riding in a two-person break, standing vs. sitting, having a moto behind you...all of these things are well-understood, at least by the top teams.

Yes, the gains are often "maximized to the extreme" for marketing purposes, but the well-funded teams completely understand the actual differences.

I can also tell you with 100% accuracy that the improvements in all of this stuff in--aerodynamics, drivetrain efficiency, and rolling resistance--in no way explain some of the recent performances...

Wouldn't this mostly come down to an aircraft travelling at much greater speeds - thus, even a small margin of error could mean a big difference in the actual performance of the aeroplane. On the bike, a larger margin would still be precise enough to measure what works the best, even with some real world factors being hard to reproduce

 

[Rob5091]

Most pro riders are doing something just to be there. It is evident it is in the identity of the sport. They arent able to ride amount of races and the length of them to compete/race, without being on something. Do it or don’t be a pro. Everybody knows.

This is so deep-rooted and goes back to the very start of it all.

There was that quote about poor people become pro-cyclists as it's too tough for well-to-do folk.

 

[Salvarani]

There was that quote about poor people become pro-cyclists as it's too tough for well-to-do folk.

?

 

[Rob5091]

?

Not read that? Probably an old quote before MAMIL's etc. and when guys were not getting 300,000 Euro watches.

 

[NFTtiddies]

Most pro riders are doing something just to be there. It is evident it is in the identity of the sport. They arent able to ride amount of races and the length of them to compete/race, without being on something. Do it or don’t be a pro. Everybody knows.

This is so deep-rooted and goes back to the very start of it all.

It starts as early as U15 when kids discover caffeine shots, U17 and they're already onto nitrate shots, Nose sprays, beta-alanine, sodium bicarb... all of the "legal" stuff. U20 and you're likely on gear already and U23 you've missed the boat.

 

[ppanther92]

Do you reckon this Mou thing is a smokescreen for doping? They know there will be huge questions on Pogi's improvement this year so they release these explanations about his training improvements. But they know it will be dismissed if it comes from official channels, so they post it on this forum as if written by some lunatic. This way people will love it and make it some weird cult thing. People will also think that if there are leaks over this there would be leaks over doping. This also provides some explanations as well that people will believe

Would be the best strategic move I have ever seen from UAE

 

[bigcog]

Froome was almost "killed" just because he did 6.1 w/kg on La pierre saint martin in 40 min.

Indeed, strange times we live in ...

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

The Badger says he's clean, so turn the lights off, and shut the door on The Clinic...we have the definitive opinion..."I am disgusted... Why do we always express doubts? Let's stop asking ourselves questions all the time! It's ridiculous... Do we have proof?" - Bernard Hinault (sounting like a 2002 Armstrong supporter...err...2015 Froome supporter...whatever)

Pretty sure Bernie never doped...

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Would be the best strategic move I have ever seen from UAE

People are already growing tired of it and sussing it out on twitter.

 

[iceblink]

The Badger says he's clean, so turn the lights off, and shut the door on The Clinic...we have the definitive opinion..."I am disgusted... Why do we always express doubts? Let's stop asking ourselves questions all the time! It's ridiculous... Do we have proof?" - Bernard Hinault (sounting like a 2002 Armstrong supporter...err...2015 Froome supporter...whatever)

Pretty sure Bernie never doped...

Really don't like irrational long time forum members still whining about Froome.

Clearly you all (mostly) were Anglophobes who deserve to be drenched in Froome's urine until you apologise.