Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Cookster15]

100%, and it’s working based on twitter interactions.

All outlier performances in pro cycling come out with smokescreens. Who can forget the wild explanations for the most absurd performance since the EPO era ended - Vingegaard’s Combloux time trial last year.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Do you reckon this Mou thing is a smokescreen for doping? They know there will be huge questions on Pogi's improvement this year so they release these explanations about his training improvements. But they know it will be dismissed if it comes from official channels, so they post it on this forum as if written by some lunatic. This way people will love it and make it some weird cult thing. People will also think that if there are leaks over this there would be leaks over doping. This also provides some explanations as well that people will believe

People who accuse him of doping better have concrete proof or else theyre getting sued and his ''improvements'' can be explained with that he is 25 still improving not even in his peak yet & that he changed coaches.

 

[sam6]

People who accuse him of doping better have concrete proof or else theyre getting sued and his ''improvements'' can be explained with that he is 25 still improving not even in his peak yet & that he changed coaches.

It's just speculation. If UAE start suing people for speculating that he might be too good to be true, I suspect that will do them a lot more harm than good

 

[pelotonIQ]

It's just speculation. If UAE start suing people for speculating that he might be too good to be true, I suspect that will do them a lot more harm than good

Yeah for now it is better to ignore the speculations

 

[Monoxidator]

Yeah for now it is better to ignore the speculations

I'm not ignoring them. Gianetti and his cohort of criminals gave up all rights to the benefit of the doubt decades ago.

 

[pelotonIQ]

I'm not ignoring them. Gianetti and his cohort of criminals gave up all rights to the benefit of the doubt decades ago.

You dont have to ignore them I was refering that it is better for UAE to ignore the speculations against them for now.

 

[danielovichdk2]

Riding the Giro and the Tdf and doing what he is doing is beyond what I imagined possible. It's like he is not even tired. Ever.

 

[lenric]

Why would that be worse than Vingegaard at the Combloux stage 16 TT last year putting 1.5 minutes into Pogacar in just 22km and 32 minutes?

well, I mean, Pogacar has done and won the Giro and he's also not exactly being a wheel sucker of vinggegaard.

 

[Taxus4a]

I'm not ignoring them. Gianetti and his cohort of criminals gave up all rights to the benefit of the doubt decades ago.

Well, one thing is past and one thing is present.
To dope or to be a doper is not to be a criminal, for me is serious, but not criminal.

 

[DrSahl]

Well, one thing is past and one thing is present.
To dope or to be a doper is not to be a criminal, for me is serious, but not criminal.

It should be criminal if it involves people under 18, as it often do in the start.
We don´t know the full impact on health with all of it yet after all, but we have some theories (depending on what it is)

 

[DrSahl]

Armstrong officially trying to give Pog some advice about how to keep a low profile and that he knows from experience that being to agressive and smashing your opponent might get you suspected...

That.. that.. is just... Think about this for a secound... Why can´t they just either once for all catch all this people or give free roam to it (I would prefer the first, for the health of the riders) Nobody believes any of this anymore and tbh. I´ve seen performances in the last 10 years, that were even worse than Armstrongs era..

Its really hard to enjoy cycling, when there are riders that basically never have an off day and just sprints like motor driven cycle. Its not as charming as it once was.

 

[Rob5091]

Well, one thing is past and one thing is present.
To dope or to be a doper is not to be a criminal, for me is serious, but not criminal.

In some countres like Germany it is a criminal offence.

 

[Taxus4a]

All outlier performances in pro cycling come out with smokescreens. Who can forget the wild explanations for the most absurd performance since the EPO era ended - Vingegaard’s Combloux time trial last year.

Why was absurd, He was the best rider of the race, he is quite good at ITT. The ITT has lot of climb. It is normal at the end of a 3 weeks race the best rider make the difference on the ITT. Vingegaard cant respond a powerfull attack of Pogacar, but he can do that.

If you dont belive in sport about good days and exhibitions of his best sportman, I dont understand what are you doing following it. Of course it was an amazing performance, but it is not to assure something not allowed is there.

 

[Mr Mysto]

In my efforts to substantiate Tadej Pogačar's integrity in the 2024 Tour de France, I have meticulously examined official statements from race organizers and anti-doping agencies. Despite this, I have been unable to locate records of his independent testing. Could you provide information on the frequency of Tadej's tests? His performance this year has been exceptional.

 

[pastronef]

Mou ffs let it go

 

[Rackham]

L.A. has spoken:

Armstrong over 'onnodige aanval' van Pogacar: "Als er al speculatie is, dan helpt dit niet"

Tadej Pogacar had voor de start van de zeventiende etappe al een op het oog geruststellende voorsprong in het klassement, maar de Sloveen kon het toch niet laten om in de aanval te gaan. Lance Armstrong keek hoofdschuddend naar zijn optreden. “Ik zou hem het advies geven om zich wat meer gedeisd...

www.wielerflits.nl

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813728166625870134

View: https://x.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1813728166625870134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1813728166625870134%7Ctwgr%5E8dfd3a39a05a6246ec73e7683ef072238f1e4eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wielerflits.nl%2Fnieuws%2Farmstrong-over-onnodige-aanval-van-pogacar-als-er-al-speculatie-is-dan-helpt-dit-niet%2F

 

[Nick2413]

L.A. has spoken:

Armstrong over 'onnodige aanval' van Pogacar: "Als er al speculatie is, dan helpt dit niet"

Tadej Pogacar had voor de start van de zeventiende etappe al een op het oog geruststellende voorsprong in het klassement, maar de Sloveen kon het toch niet laten om in de aanval te gaan. Lance Armstrong keek hoofdschuddend naar zijn optreden. “Ik zou hem het advies geven om zich wat meer gedeisd...

www.wielerflits.nl

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813728166625870134

View: https://x.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1813728166625870134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1813728166625870134%7Ctwgr%5E8dfd3a39a05a6246ec73e7683ef072238f1e4eaa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wielerflits.nl%2Fnieuws%2Farmstrong-over-onnodige-aanval-van-pogacar-als-er-al-speculatie-is-dan-helpt-dit-niet%2F

This is an outright claim he thinks he’s doping imo. You would never say that otherwise. Stop attacking so they don’t get suspicious.

 

[Rackham]

This is an outright claim he thinks he’s doping imo. You would never say that otherwise. Stop attacking so they don’t get suspicious.

I'll be honest I didn't expect Armstrong of all people to be so forthright about Pog's situation. The easier option is to just dance along & sing kumbaya with all the other influencers/podcasters/youtubers & media who're profiteering from the razzmatazz of current pro cycling with all its bombastic superstars (namely Pog but there are a few others as well) who're smashing records & power data left right & center.

The traditional boom/bust cycle of the Tour de France isn't complete... until there's a bust. One could argue this could perhaps be in Armstrong's favor as well i.e. any downfall of Pog, Vinge & the others would automatically have an effect on Armstrong's legacy in the sense he could easily say "it wasn't me, it's the sport".

And he'd be right, whether people like it or not.

 

[DrSahl]

This is an outright claim he thinks he’s doping imo. You would never say that otherwise. Stop attacking so they don’t get suspicious.

Well obviously.
Do anyone have any doubt about that? If so no wonder nothing changes.

 

[Rackham]

Well obviously.
Do anyone have any doubt about that? If so no wonder nothing changes.

There's never been so little interest in doping. It took Pog & Vinge posting delirious numbers on Sunday along with the carbon monoxide story to jumpstart some obvious questions.

Froome & co had it way worse ten years ago. They used to get absolutely grilled on their performances. Even Jumbo & Rog had a hard time before that infamous ITT 4 years ago (remember the Zeeman incident on Loze when the commissaires destroyed Rog's bike looking for a motor?).

These days it's all about how great the new generation is because they love cycling so much & they attack a lot.

 

[Nick2413]

One could argue this could perhaps be in Armstrong's favor as well i.e. any downfall of Pog, Vinge & the others would automatically have an effect on Armstrong's legacy in the sense he could easily say "it wasn't me, it's the sport".

No doubt. I mean, the media and masses will still find a way to say his doping was much worse (never mind how he handled it), but in every empirical way it’s in his favor. As good of a liar he is, I think it’s just impossible for him to host a cycling podcast where he dissects performances and doesn’t subconsciously let it slip that they’re all on stuff, i.e here saying Pog should avoid making people suspicious. I don’t know how anyone can hear him say that without immediately understanding the implications of what he’s saying.

 

[DrSahl]

There's never been so little interest in doping. It took Pog & Vinge posting delirious numbers on Sunday along with the carbon monoxide story to jumpstart some obvious questions.

Froome & co had it way worse ten years ago. They used to get absolutely grilled on their performances. Even Jumbo & Rog had a hard time before that infamous ITT 4 years ago (remember the Zeeman incident on Loze when the commissaires destroyed Rog's bike looking for a motor?).

These days it's all about how great the new generation is because they love cycling so much & they attack a lot.

All I know have been critical since well forever.. they have never seen much improvement.
Froome did kickstart an Armstrong era again for many and Pog / Vinge is just next level in terms of performance.. I agree that many of the others atleast tried to dial back on too crazy stuff.

The younger fans or incoming fans seems to love Pog and Vinge however, even if they understand they are not clean and yes they do seem to love all the massive super human attacks..
Personally I love it when you see riders have full cycle of emotions and variation in performance..

Pog and Vinge don´t really have "bad days" per say. They have "Only slightly better than Pantani" days.


I don´t think Pog cares, he is protected. His very liked in the media and by fans, Vinge not as much, but still enough to garner protection.. We have seen this with others as well. When riders are not very liked, they tend to suddenly get caught.

 

[Ruklaw]

Yeah, I mean it's obvious that these riders are doping, and it's also obvious they ain't getting popped.

The reason can be summarized in a pub quiz question that also came up on Lance's podcast - who was the last Belgian to podium on the tour?

The answer is Jurgen Van Den Broeck in 2010 - but most people don't know that as he finished 5th at the time.

Menchov and Contador got popped so he's been promoted to the podium.

It doesn't really look great for a sport when the guy that came 5th ends up coming 3rd - better to keep things brushed under the carpet and sell the product.

 

[ashhutch1997]

There's never been so little interest in doping. It took Pog & Vinge posting delirious numbers on Sunday along with the carbon monoxide story to jumpstart some obvious questions.

Froome & co had it way worse ten years ago. They used to get absolutely grilled on their performances. Even Jumbo & Rog had a hard time before that infamous ITT 4 years ago (remember the Zeeman incident on Loze when the commissaires destroyed Rog's bike looking for a motor?).

These days it's all about how great the new generation is because they love cycling so much & they attack a lot.

Very true, I think the reason why Sky got so much stick off the press and fans was because it was just after Lance came out, so us cycling fans were very sensitive.

 

[Froome]

Very true, I think the reason why Sky got so much stick off the press and fans was because it was just after Lance came out, so us cycling fans were very sensitive.

Froome was almost "killed" just because he did 6.1 w/kg on La pierre saint martin in 40 min.