Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Extinction]

With salaries for pro sports rising and rising, the "professionalism" of junior sports, and the financial pressure to dope is also rising.

If people were already doping in high school football in the 80s, they 110% are doing it now.

Of course, and that was my point. If they were doping in the 80s they're definitely doping now. The propaganda holds sport to a moral standard that the rest of society simply doesn't maintain. The competitiveness today, moreover, is way more acute than sport was in the 80s and prior. It's a monster that's been building for decades. It's simply not realistic that today's athletes should be clean, as pharmacalogical science has become increasingly sophisticated, which mirrors the increased sophistication of training methods and gear. Today's riders go at speeds unimaginable back in the 80s and only a fool would believe it's just the result of better nutrition and equipment. And then look who is running the show at UAE. Can we really believe Gianetti is running a clean operation? Have people already forgotten Riccardo Ricco and Leonardo Piepoli? And then there is the whole sportswashing side of the team, funded by a regime that commits every crime against human rights. If I were a pro I'd want nothing to do with such sponsorship. How can anyone in their right mind trust such a set-up?

 

[noob]

And then there is the whole sportswashing side of the team, funded by a regime that commits every crime against human rights. If I were a pro I'd want nothing to do with such sponosorship. How can anyone in their right mind trust such a set-up?

This! Internationalisation of cycling sounds so good, but people forget what it entails! Soon China will join with Astana too and I've no idea how people will explain it when Vino team starts flying as high as UAE. People hate China so let's see how that'll work.

(Is this why Remco is learning Mandarin?! 😱🤣)

 

[Extinction]

This! Internationalisation of cycling sounds so good, but people forget what it entails! Soon China will join with Astana too and I've no idea how people will explain it when Vino team starts flying as high as UAE. People hate China so let's see how that'll work.

(Is this why Remco is learning Mandarin?! 😱🤣)

Cycling just wants money and market exposure and anti-doping must not interfere with this. How can a Vino (like Gianetti) even be running a team otherwise?

 

[Penninepeddler]

Of course, and that was my point. If they were doping in the 80s they're definitely doping now. The propaganda holds sport to a moral standard that the rest of society simply doesn't maintain. The competitiveness today, moreover, is way more acute than sport was in the 80s and prior. It's a monster that's been building for decades. It's simply not realistic that today's athletes should be clean, as pharmacalogical science has become increasingly sophisticated, which mirrors the increased sophistication of training methods and gear. Today's riders go at speeds unimaginable back in the 80s and only a fool would believe it's just the result of better nutrition and equipment. And then look who is running the show at UAE. Can we really believe Gianetti is running a clean operation? Have people already forgotten Riccardo Ricco and Leonardo Piepoli? And then there is the whole sportswashing side of the team, funded by a regime that commits every crime against human rights. If I were a pro I'd want nothing to do with such sponosorship. How can anyone in their right mind trust such a set-up?

I think as well that...

a lot of sports are "cleaner" than 20-40 years ago. BUT most of the sports that are? Primarily "skill" sport. Football, handball, cricket, ice hockey, basketball, baseball for example... I would wager less guys are on something than were back then.

Because the extra attention on drug testing, the societal backlash, the health worries etc? Not worth it as much in sports that - well - dont really require you to be the strongest or having the most stamina to win, and also have a lot of moving parts with so many players on each team etc.

Now, I am also not naïve enough to think that any sport is close to fully clean either... and team sports where pure strength is a bigger advantage? (NFL, water polo, rugby) Yeh, for sure there are higher rates of doping as well still, and in some of these that starts at a younger age too...

but in a sport like cycling (like longer distance running, longer distance swimming and strength based track and field etc)... the advantaged that doping gives relative to chance of winning is significantly more. The risk vs reward is just flipped on its head vs a lot of sports.

90% of winning in a Grand Tour for example, or a marathon, or 1500m swimming? It is having a better V02 Max, having better lactate threshold, having better hemocrit levels.

 

[Bolder]

I think as well that...

a lot of sports are "cleaner" than 20-40 years ago. BUT most of the sports that are? Primarily "skill" sport. Football, handball, cricket, ice hockey, basketball, baseball for example... I would wager less guys are on something than were back then.

Because the extra attention on drug testing, the societal backlash, the health worries etc? Not worth it as much in sports that - well - dont really require you to be the strongest or having the most stamina to win, and also have a lot of moving parts with so many players on each team etc.

Now, I am also not naïve enough to think that any sport is close to fully clean either... and team sports where pure strength is a bigger advantage? (NFL, water polo, rugby) Yeh, for sure there are higher rates of doping as well still, and in some of these that starts at a younger age too...

but in a sport like cycling (like longer distance running, longer distance swimming and strength based track and field etc)... the advantaged that doping gives relative to chance of winning is significantly more. The risk vs reward is just flipped on its head vs a lot of sports.

90% of winning in a Grand Tour for example, or a marathon, or 1500m swimming? It is having a better V02 Max, having better lactate threshold, having better hemocrit levels.

I don't necessarily think any sport is "cleaner," but the over-the-top thermonuclear doping with veterinary medications is long gone except for the desperate. I think we're seeing a lot of sophisticated PED regimes that are undetectable except in the event of a real screw-up.

I'd bet there is a ton of doping in football (soccer). The contracts are so big that there's plenty of money to fund individual programs; the seasons are getting longer and the pressure to stay "match fit" is higher and higher. Any edge that will keep a player in the game longer is a huge benefit. Same with tennis.

To the subject of this thread: one thing that's interesting about Pog is that he can do different disciplines without taking away from others; i.e. winning Flanders but still dominating in the high mountains. That is an amazing natural adaptation ability, whatever else he may be doing.

 

[Extinction]

I don't necessarily think any sport is "cleaner," but the over-the-top thermonuclear doping with veterinary medications is long gone except for the desperate. I think we're seeing a lot of sophisticated PED regimes that are undetectable except in the event of a real screw-up.

I'd bet there is a ton of doping in football (soccer). The contracts are so big that there's plenty of money to fund individual programs; the seasons are getting longer and the pressure to stay "match fit" is higher and higher. Any edge that will keep a player in the game longer is a huge benefit. Same with tennis.

To the subject of this thread: one thing that's interesting about Pog is that he can do different disciplines without taking away from others; i.e. winning Flanders but still dominating in the high mountains. That is an amazing natural adaptation ability, whatever else he may be doing.

Well, when Gianetti is in control, even miracles are possible. They have found the magic formula, top condition from March to October. The others are just weaklings.

 

[Penninepeddler]

I don't necessarily think any sport is "cleaner," but the over-the-top thermonuclear doping with veterinary medications is long gone except for the desperate. I think we're seeing a lot of sophisticated PED regimes that are undetectable except in the event of a real screw-up.

I'd bet there is a ton of doping in football (soccer). The contracts are so big that there's plenty of money to fund individual programs; the seasons are getting longer and the pressure to stay "match fit" is higher and higher. Any edge that will keep a player in the game longer is a huge benefit. Same with tennis.

To the subject of this thread: one thing that's interesting about Pog is that he can do different disciplines without taking away from others; i.e. winning Flanders but still dominating in the high mountains. That is an amazing natural adaptation ability, whatever else he may be doing.

It does depend what you mean by "clean" for sure. Having played sport to a decent level and having been on an Olympic programme briefly... people for sure looked for an edge with legal supplements and, well, a lot more people are somehow asthmatic in the sporting world lmfao... for example. TUE's and equivalents across sport are commonplace that is for sure.

But being early 30s right now, and being around guys who went to the Olympics through my teen years, and having been one of those people who had to give my whereabouts to drug testers for a couple of years?

Well, vs the stories that the guys who were 10-20 years older than us it seemed far less accepted and far less widespread in say 2010 than 1995. Though there were still jokes about some high-level guys in the sport who everyone "knew" were dopers. Heck, one of the best players in the sport in the 2000s was nicknamed "the pharmacy" by some of the guys on our national team.

 

[fbjim]

cant believe pogacar just got caught on camera trying to plant doping evidence in the intermarche car. absolutely sickening behavior

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Today I hiked up a mountain (1400 vertical meters) in 2 hours but you know what? Our hero Teddy shared with us his secret of great form! Two plates of porridge for breakfast and I will break 1 hour barrier: what a great human being Teddy is!

 

[Monoxidator]

Pollitt dropping climbers like bad habits. LOL

 

[MartinGT]

Pollitt dropping climbers like bad habits. LOL

Warbass just laughing.

What a joke.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Ffs. Pollitt dropping climbers half his size all over the mountain. At over 2000m. They’re not even pretending now.

 

[Low is rhe new high]

Pollitt dropping climbers like bad habits. LOL

Yeah he had the same breakfast as Pogi. Straight from the plastic bag.

 

[Nick2413]

Pollitt LOL. Guess the whole team is on the heavy stuff

 

[Monoxidator]

Politt is one of the best 25 climbers in the world now, reminds me of a Hincapie level performance.

 

[Extinction]

I don't necessarily think any sport is "cleaner," but the over-the-top thermonuclear doping with veterinary medications is long gone except for the desperate. I think we're seeing a lot of sophisticated PED regimes that are undetectable except in the event of a real screw-up.

I'd bet there is a ton of doping in football (soccer). The contracts are so big that there's plenty of money to fund individual programs; the seasons are getting longer and the pressure to stay "match fit" is higher and higher. Any edge that will keep a player in the game longer is a huge benefit. Same with tennis.

To the subject of this thread: one thing that's interesting about Pog is that he can do different disciplines without taking away from others; i.e. winning Flanders but still dominating in the high mountains. That is an amazing natural adaptation ability, whatever else he may be doing.

They're taking drugs to keep ahead. And I've raced with Olympic level riders.

 

[Venge 82]

Pollitt LOL. Guess the whole team is on the heavy stuff

Was thinking exactly the same. And then you hear commentators on television going crazy about Politt. Do they have sh*t in their eyes or are they ret*rded?

 

[Rob5091]

Would it be new that it includes this forum?

Probably not. I can not give a definitive example (maybe a mod could) but just to spread doubt about claims of doping when an "out of the ordinary" sporting performance happens, is usually enough (new training methods! new bikes! new porridge to breakfast etc ).

 

[DrSahl]

I guess Pog did not hear what Armstrong had to tell him.
Ohh well.

 

[lenric]

 

[Monoxidator]

This is absolutely hilarious

 

[MartinGT]

Wow. All because Gel's have more carbs in them.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Sad for the future of the sport if people keep hyping him up.

 

[Divergence]

Sad for the future of the sport if people keep hyping him up.

And what, it is not sad to see the lanky non climber winning the stage?

 

[lenric]

Sad for the future of the sport if people keep hyping him up.

I hope he goes to the vuelta and smashes it after winning the olympics.