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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Vingegaard's wins were never this obscene. People lose their minds over the TT but a super lightweight doing well on a TT with very steep pitches isn't eye opening to me. We also know that Vingegaard was a technical demon on that TT which netted 20-30 seconds.
WvA, a big block of meat getting 3rd in that TT was more surprising imo.
 
as someone who watched the 2007 tour de france, i disagree that doped events are boring
Yeah, that tour had a set of very unique circumstances that are very hard to replicate for entertainment.

A lot of TT kms
Rasmussen got gifted ~3 mins, and people did not realize how big of a threat he was back then.
The top 3 climbers were inversely sorted in the TTs.
Contador being desperate to drop Rasmussen, and going insane all the time with a brutally strong team.
Vino and Soler doing crazy stuff for entertainment
 
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I don't know man but seeing the attempts from some people online right now to paint Pog as a doper & Vingegaard as 'normal' really blows my mind.

There was nothing normal about Combloux. The man himself admitted he thought his power meter was broken because his numbers were so high.
yeah in all sincerity there is no way that exactly one of the two is clean lmao. like this is about as absurd as the people who legitimately thought Lance Armstrong was the only clean cyclist of the early 00s.
 
yeah in all sincerity there is no way that exactly one of the two is clean lmao. like this is about as absurd as the people who legitimately thought Lance Armstrong was the only clean cyclist of the early 00s.
That's just fanboys of the different riders going back and forth at each other... it's meaningless and their opinions have no weight.
 
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Combloux was absurd.

It was the single greatest performance in terms of seconds gained per km in a Tour time trial since the 1960's.

The people who orchestrated that 'performance' get zero sympathy or 'good guy' points.
I agree that it was ludicrous, but most TTs in the Tour de France are way flatter than last year's and it's easier to gain a lot of time per km on a hilly course than a flat one. You can pretty much take any flat TT out of the equation if that's the metric. It'd be interesting to see all the Tour TTs ranked by total length divided by altitude gained to compare the time gaps on profiles that are similar to Combloux and see just how much of an outlier that performance actually was.

For example, Armstrong took a minute on Ullrich on the Alpe d'Huez TT in 2004, which is a similar gain per km, but obviously also a much steeper course.
 
I agree that it was ludicrous, but most TTs in the Tour de France are way flatter than last year's and it's easier to gain a lot of time per km on a hilly course than a flat one. You can pretty much take any flat TT out of the equation if that's the metric. It'd be interesting to see all the Tour TTs ranked by total length divided by altitude gained to compare the time gaps on profiles that are similar to Combloux and see just how much of an outlier that performance actually was.

For example, Armstrong took a minute on Ullrich on the Alpe d'Huez TT in 2004, which is a similar gain per km, but obviously also a much steeper course.
it was, literally, the first time trial win of his career
 
Dude wins TdF with 1 stage cauae the other guy decides to drop 5 minutes on one stage while most of that Tour is really close.

This meanwhile, We're at 17 WT wins this year. Giro with 10 minutes and 6 stages. Tour with presumably 5 stages and 6+ minutes.

Like dude do you have the slightest ounce of intellectual honesty in you?

I do actually.

In 2023 you might remember Vingegaard dominated Itzulia, really dominated the Dauphiné, dominated the Tour with that ITT in which the 3rd rider (Van Aert) was nearly 3 minutes down & then if all had gone according to form (& not team orders), it's highly probably he would have won the Vuelta as well, at least judging by his performances on the Tourmalet & Bejes.

So what are we arguing about here? Both Pog & Vinge are highly suspect. There's no 'lesser dopers' or 'more normal' between UAE & Visma.

It would take some pretty severe intellectual dishonesty to pretend Visma is cleaner tbh.
 
Dude wins TdF with 1 stage cauae the other guy decides to drop 5 minutes on one stage while most of that Tour is really close.

This meanwhile, We're at 17 WT wins this year. Giro with 10 minutes and 6 stages. Tour with presumably 5 stages and 6+ minutes.

Like dude do you have the slightest ounce of intellectual honesty in you?
This.

I have no idea if Jonas is on something or not, but it's pretty obvious that what he's good at are stage races and that he peaks for the TdF.

Tadej peaks 12 months a year and feels like he could out-sprint Jasper on the Champs Elysees.
 
I do actually.

In 2023 you might remember Vingegaard dominated Itzulia, really dominated the Dauphiné, dominated the Tour with that ITT in which the 3rd rider (Van Aert) was nearly 3 minutes down & then if all had gone according to form (& not team orders), it's highly probably he would have won the Vuelta as well, at least judging by his performances on the Tourmalet & Bejes.

So what are we arguing about here? Both Pog & Vinge are highly suspect. There's no 'lesser dopers' or 'more normal' between UAE & Visma.

It would take some pretty severe intellectual dishonesty to pretend Visma is cleaner tbh.
It is pretty clear, in this case, it is only the personal dislike for a rider who dictates the opinion and feelings on it.
 
In 2023 you might remember Vingegaard dominated Itzulia, really dominated the Dauphiné, dominated the Tour with that ITT in which the 3rd rider (Van Aert) was nearly 3 minutes down & then if all had gone according to form (& not team orders), it's highly probably he would have won the Vuelta as well, at least judging by his performances on the Tourmalet & Bejes.
Putting aside the Vuelta for a second, aren't you just saying Jonas did well in one particular type of race (stage race) for the period leading into the Tour (i.e., peaking)?

He has a specialty and he's very good at it.
 
I don't know man but seeing the attempts from some people online right now to paint Pog as a doper & Vingegaard as 'normal' really blows my mind.

There was nothing normal about Combloux. The man himself admitted he thought his power meter was broken because his numbers were so high.
I don't think people think Vingegaard is clean, but that what Gianetti and company have done with Pogacar goes too far. He wasn't even breathing hard at the finish. It's not normal and frankly off-putting.