Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[fbjim]

I don't think doped events are boring.

What's boring is when you have anti-doping that doesn't catch everyone and leads to UNEQUAL DOPING.

this is literally every doping era ever

 

[fbjim]

like do you think GAN had as good a doping program as ONCE in 1995 or something

 

[Rackham]

Pogacar was just *** bruv I don't know why this hurts to admit

I don't know man but seeing the attempts from some people online right now to paint Pog as a doper & Vingegaard as 'normal' really blows my mind.

There was nothing normal about Combloux. The man himself admitted he thought his power meter was broken because his numbers were so high.

 

[fbjim]

I don't know man but seeing the attempts from some people online right now to paint Pog as a doper & Vingegaard as 'normal' really blows my mind.

There was nothing normal about Combloux. The man himself admitted he thought his power meter was broken because his numbers were so high.

yeah in all sincerity there is no way that exactly one of the two is clean lmao. like this is about as absurd as the people who legitimately thought Lance Armstrong was the only clean cyclist of the early 00s.

 

[Red Rick]

how many doping points is 2022 Wout van Aert worth though

41 minute Hautcam. about 0.1 points.

 

[Monoxidator]

yeah in all sincerity there is no way that exactly one of the two is clean lmao. like this is about as absurd as the people who legitimately thought Lance Armstrong was the only clean cyclist of the early 00s.

That's just fanboys of the different riders going back and forth at each other... it's meaningless and their opinions have no weight.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't know man but seeing the attempts from some people online right now to paint Pog as a doper & Vingegaard as 'normal' really blows my mind.

There was nothing normal about Combloux. The man himself admitted he thought his power meter was broken because his numbers were so high.

Dude wins TdF with 1 stage cauae the other guy decides to drop 5 minutes on one stage while most of that Tour is really close.

This meanwhile, We're at 17 WT wins this year. Giro with 10 minutes and 6 stages. Tour with presumably 5 stages and 6+ minutes.

Like dude do you have the slightest ounce of intellectual honesty in you?

 

[Saint Unix]

Combloux was absurd.

It was the single greatest performance in terms of seconds gained per km in a Tour time trial since the 1960's.

The people who orchestrated that 'performance' get zero sympathy or 'good guy' points.

I agree that it was ludicrous, but most TTs in the Tour de France are way flatter than last year's and it's easier to gain a lot of time per km on a hilly course than a flat one. You can pretty much take any flat TT out of the equation if that's the metric. It'd be interesting to see all the Tour TTs ranked by total length divided by altitude gained to compare the time gaps on profiles that are similar to Combloux and see just how much of an outlier that performance actually was.

For example, Armstrong took a minute on Ullrich on the Alpe d'Huez TT in 2004, which is a similar gain per km, but obviously also a much steeper course.

 

[fbjim]

I agree that it was ludicrous, but most TTs in the Tour de France are way flatter than last year's and it's easier to gain a lot of time per km on a hilly course than a flat one. You can pretty much take any flat TT out of the equation if that's the metric. It'd be interesting to see all the Tour TTs ranked by total length divided by altitude gained to compare the time gaps on profiles that are similar to Combloux and see just how much of an outlier that performance actually was.

For example, Armstrong took a minute on Ullrich on the Alpe d'Huez TT in 2004, which is a similar gain per km, but obviously also a much steeper course.

it was, literally, the first time trial win of his career

 

[FrontHeadlock]

it was, literally, the first time trial win of his career

But how many has he raced with that type of profile?

Also, don't forget the choice to change or not change bikes. Pretty sure the right decision ended up being not changing bikes, but Tadej changed.

 

[Monoxidator]

Btw Phil Leggett is disgusting haha… saying inane crop after the stage like “Jorgenson will be overjoyed to have lost to such a talent as Pogacar”

Everyone is just so privileged to bear witness

 

[Rackham]

Dude wins TdF with 1 stage cauae the other guy decides to drop 5 minutes on one stage while most of that Tour is really close.

This meanwhile, We're at 17 WT wins this year. Giro with 10 minutes and 6 stages. Tour with presumably 5 stages and 6+ minutes.

Like dude do you have the slightest ounce of intellectual honesty in you?

I do actually.

In 2023 you might remember Vingegaard dominated Itzulia, really dominated the Dauphiné, dominated the Tour with that ITT in which the 3rd rider (Van Aert) was nearly 3 minutes down & then if all had gone according to form (& not team orders), it's highly probably he would have won the Vuelta as well, at least judging by his performances on the Tourmalet & Bejes.

So what are we arguing about here? Both Pog & Vinge are highly suspect. There's no 'lesser dopers' or 'more normal' between UAE & Visma.

It would take some pretty severe intellectual dishonesty to pretend Visma is cleaner tbh.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Dude wins TdF with 1 stage cauae the other guy decides to drop 5 minutes on one stage while most of that Tour is really close.

This meanwhile, We're at 17 WT wins this year. Giro with 10 minutes and 6 stages. Tour with presumably 5 stages and 6+ minutes.

Like dude do you have the slightest ounce of intellectual honesty in you?

This.

I have no idea if Jonas is on something or not, but it's pretty obvious that what he's good at are stage races and that he peaks for the TdF.

Tadej peaks 12 months a year and feels like he could out-sprint Jasper on the Champs Elysees.

 

[Salvarani]

I do actually.

In 2023 you might remember Vingegaard dominated Itzulia, really dominated the Dauphiné, dominated the Tour with that ITT in which the 3rd rider (Van Aert) was nearly 3 minutes down & then if all had gone according to form (& not team orders), it's highly probably he would have won the Vuelta as well, at least judging by his performances on the Tourmalet & Bejes.

So what are we arguing about here? Both Pog & Vinge are highly suspect. There's no 'lesser dopers' or 'more normal' between UAE & Visma.

It would take some pretty severe intellectual dishonesty to pretend Visma is cleaner tbh.

It is pretty clear, in this case, it is only the personal dislike for a rider who dictates the opinion and feelings on it.

 

[E_F_]

Of course Jonas is also doping, but this "Poggers" BS is on a different level.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

In 2023 you might remember Vingegaard dominated Itzulia, really dominated the Dauphiné, dominated the Tour with that ITT in which the 3rd rider (Van Aert) was nearly 3 minutes down & then if all had gone according to form (& not team orders), it's highly probably he would have won the Vuelta as well, at least judging by his performances on the Tourmalet & Bejes.

Putting aside the Vuelta for a second, aren't you just saying Jonas did well in one particular type of race (stage race) for the period leading into the Tour (i.e., peaking)?

He has a specialty and he's very good at it.

 

[fbjim]

Putting aside the Vuelta for a second, aren't you just saying Jonas did well in one particular type of race (stage race) for the period leading into the Tour (i.e., peaking)?

He has a specialty and he's very good at it.

you're literally describing lance armstrong

 

[Extinction]

I don't know man but seeing the attempts from some people online right now to paint Pog as a doper & Vingegaard as 'normal' really blows my mind.

There was nothing normal about Combloux. The man himself admitted he thought his power meter was broken because his numbers were so high.

I don't think people think Vingegaard is clean, but that what Gianetti and company have done with Pogacar goes too far. He wasn't even breathing hard at the finish. It's not normal and frankly off-putting.

 

[fbjim]

also i thought of another rider who, along with Peak Padun, would have easily won: Tramadol Quintana

 

[Floatstick]

Putting aside the Vuelta for a second, aren't you just saying Jonas did well in one particular type of race (stage race) for the period leading into the Tour (i.e., peaking)?

He crushed Tirreno-Adriatico so hard in early March this year, second place Juan Ayuso said "I think I'm the first human in this race".

The fact that he is in second place at TdF 6 weeks after a collapsed lung is itself pretty out there performance-wise.

 

[Shakes]

A few days ago on Eurosport (in Dutch) the commentators were stating Pogacar was giving everyone bicycle lessons. Today the same commentator stated this reminded him of Pantani, as Pog almost had to brake in the hairpins (Pantani on the Alp) after adding that the hairpins are flatter on the Alp.

Probably not veiled doping accusations based on their fanboyism earlier but nonetheless I still interpreted as such. One can only hope.

Anyway, love cycling but watching it as a sport is a no go from now on. Annoyed with comments regarding greatest cyclist ever, that everything is so amazing etc. Which saves me money on the Eurosport subscription at least. Will come back when someone can convincingly explain why one would win the tour with 6.2wkg or thereabouts five years ago but now it's 7. While altitude training was there, high carb intake etc. Almost 15 percent better is just not believable in such short time span.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

you're literally describing lance armstrong

Lance was world champion and probably could have excelled at Monuments and other races but he chose not to.

Jonas probably can't to be fair.

 

[hfer07]

Poga didn't need to do this today...
but such attitudes are the ones that make the fire more intense on his controversial "powers".......
At this point the question is - what are Poga's limits? If the press & anti-doping authorities are no longer interested in questioning him, If the double is won in such fashion, then why not going full *** for the triple?
Poga claimed to be interested in La Vuelta next year, which means he'll likely do the Tour-Vuelta double, which lead us to believe that Pogacar & UAE will make it "the new standard" with wins in the classics and a double GTs from now on....

 

[fbjim]

my vibes-based suspicion is that Pogacar is having his Jalabert 1995 season and even with doping, it is not sustainable, if only because other teams will catch up.

 

[Floatstick]

Even if you don't like Armstrong, his show on today's stage is worth a listen as he gives his opinion on all this.

Probably true that he is the best qualified person alive to understand the impact.