Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Rackham]

But cycling had nothing to do with Pharmstrong's demise, but USADA. Armstrong didn't pay a higher price than Pantani. That's absurd. The only reason Armstrong got his due was because he was an a-hole, who, while still in power, ruined the lives of those against him. He was an arrogant bully. Cycling didn't pin the entire doping culture on him alone, but Virenque, Pantani, Ullrich, Jiminez, Basso, Landis, Hamilton, Rasmussen, Ricco, Contador, whose careers all paid a price which active Armstrong didn't.

Maybe saying he paid a higher price is as you say not true regarding Pantani (because he did in fact die, obviously), but when you look at all the names working for the top teams (Gianetti, Niermann etc.) or the people working in the commentary booths (Jalabert, Durand, McEwen, Kelly etc.) then yes, Amrstrong evidently got punished whilst many were allowed to work in the sport & still feed at the trough as if nothing happened.

 

[noob]

Do you mean to imply that fanboys today feel even stronger about their favourites than in the past? If so, that is an absurd statement.

I don't think it is. Fan culture everywhere is exploding.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Do you mean to imply that fanboys today feel even stronger about their favourites than in the past? If so, that is an absurd statement.

Everyone today (party driven by the media) wants to see historic achievements all the time.

Someone like Carlos Alcaraz wins his 4th Major title and everyone is like "CAN HE WIN 25?!?!"

It's gross and obnoxious.

 

[fbjim]

Maybe saying he paid a higher price is as you say not true regarding Pantani (because he did in fact die, obviously), but when you look at all the names working for the top teams (Gianetti, Niermann etc.) or the people working in the commentary booths (Jalabert, Durand, McEwen, Kelly etc.) then yes, Amrstrong evidently got punished whilst many were allowed to work in the sport & still feed at the trough as if nothing happened.

his podcast is literally being broadcast by NBC, Armstrong is well and truly back in the media fold

 

[zlev11]

Do you mean to imply that fanboys today feel even stronger about their favourites than in the past? If so, that is an absurd statement.

no, i'm impyling that now everyone is a fanboy, specifically and especially the media covering the sport.

 

[kingjr]

I don't think it is. Fan culture everywhere is exploding.

I don't think you were around when, say, Ullrich's popularity was at its peak in Germany. "Tourgott" was not an ironic nickname.

 

[Rackham]

his podcast is literally being broadcast by NBC, Armstrong is well and truly back in the media fold

It's still not comparable.

The voices people hear on TV telling them Pog & Vinge are totally normal & just faster due to bike tech & their choice of breakfast are the same guys who were shooting themselves with EPO/amphetamines or whatever else was standard in their respective eras.

The entire conversation about doping is so seriously broken because the people making money in the sport are the same people who also... doped back in their own days as riders.

I mean I'd tell the ASO & the rest to give Christophe Bassons a job on French TV or in the organisation itself... or f*ck off, IMO.

That's what I'm getting at.

 

[kingjr]

no, i'm impyling that now everyone is a fanboy, specifically and especially the media covering the sport.

Based on what, vibes? Ok then. I visited one German sports website today, which I don't often do, and one of the first articles I saw in the TdF section was about carbon monoxide rebreathers.

 

[noob]

I don't think you were around when, say, Ullrich's popularity was at its peak in Germany. "Tourgott" was not an ironic nickname.

That is true. I was not around then. I'm talking about fan culture exploding in general and how social media algoritms affects the brains of people. So logically it will be on a different scale nowadays since fandom in general is.

Might just be different perspective and I might just be wrong

 

[zlev11]

Based on what, vibes? Ok then. I visited one German sports website today, which I don't often do, and one of the first articles I saw in the TdF section was about carbon monoxide rebreathers.

oh cool, One German Sports Website, yeah that's the gauge of the entire cycling media i was looking for, thanks.

i mean you'd have to live under a rock, or watch the races without sound to not hear all the disgusting superlatives the media throws around while they watch Pogacar destroy dopers climbing times by 4 minutes.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Tadej peaks 12 months a year and feels like he could out-sprint Jasper on the Champs Elysees.

So you think he gifted MSR to Philipsen?

 

[kingjr]

That is true. I was not around then. I'm talking about fan culture exploding in general and how social media algoritms affects the brains of people. So logically it will be on a different scale nowadays since fandom in general is.

Might just be different perspective and I might just be wrong

I agree, fandoms probably express themselves differently today than back then. I wouldn't know very well because I avoid getting too close to any kind of fandom. I don't believe the underlying mentality has changed, however.

 

[SHAD0W93]

So you think he gifted MSR to Philipsen?

They are training buddies.

 

[fbjim]

Do people actually think the current generation is dumber than the ones who grew up worshiping Lance Armstrong and Marco Pantani

 

[Extinction]

Maybe saying he paid a higher price is as you say not true regarding Pantani (because he did in fact die, obviously), but when you look at all the names working for the top teams (Gianetti, Niermann etc.) or the people working in the commentary booths (Jalabert, Durand, McEwen, Kelly etc.) then yes, Amrstrong evidently got punished whilst many were allowed to work in the sport & still feed at the trough as if nothing happened.

Armstrong needed to take the fall for the UCI, which happily sacrificed others at the temple of cycling altar when it suited them. Pantani's death resulted from this. But now Lance has got his podcast, in which Cav and Wiggo appear, and everything is just ***-dory.

 

[kingjr]

oh cool, One German Sports Website, yeah that's the gauge of the entire cycling media i was looking for, thanks.

Only one example was needed to refute the claim.

 

[46&twoWheels]

If Nibali can win San Remo, so can Vingegaard. He can certainly win Lombardia and LBL as well.

I don't know about comparing one of the most clever and versatile GC guy of the past 15 years to a robot like Vingegaard. you can't win Milano-San Remo with watts only

sorry for the OT

 

[Extinction]

Do people actually think the current generation is dumber than the ones who grew up worshiping Lance Armstrong and Marco Pantani

The mother of an imbecile is always pregnant.

 

[kingjr]

I don't know about comparing one of the most clever and versatile GC guy of the past 15 years to a robot like Vingegaard. you can't win Milano-San Remo with watts only

sorry for the OT

Good point. I've replied in the Vingegaard thread.

 

[zlev11]

Only one example was needed to refute the claim.

so is Lance correct then, is Pogacar going to start being hated for winning too much? because i haven't seen it yet. Eurosport and NBC are calling him the greatest cyclist ever with no doping insinuations. maybe you can cite a random Romanian sports website or something that is writing critical articles about him?

 

[kingjr]

so is Lance correct then, is Pogacar going to start being hated for winning too much? because i haven't seen it yet. Eurosport and NBC are calling him the greatest cyclist ever with no doping insinuations. maybe you can cite a random Romanian sports website or something that is writing critical articles about him?

You're moving the goalposts.

 

[fbjim]

so is Lance correct then, is Pogacar going to start being hated for winning too much? because i haven't seen it yet. Eurosport and NBC are calling him the greatest cyclist ever with no doping insinuations. maybe you can cite a random Romanian sports website or something that is writing critical articles about him?

Lance Armstrong is literally saying this on an NBC platform

 

[Blanco]

Idk about doping and other stuff which is not allowed, but it is pretty clear that Pog is just maybe the most talented cyclist ever.

Well.., it wasn't that clear till' this year.

 

[zlev11]

Lance Armstrong is literally saying this on an NBC platform

right but he wasn't saying what he said in a critical way, he phrased it as "advice" for Pogacar. my point was that he is completely misreading what the cycling media is like now.

(also, the episode he said it on was not one of the episodes simulcast on Peacock fwiw)

 

[Monoxidator]

Well.., it wasn't that clear till' this year.

Totally normal for someone already highly trained and at the top of the sport to suddenly improve 10% over all their previous years, in an endurance sport. And then for a truck like Derek Gee to suddenly at 73 kg to climb like a GC contender.