Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Yeah but is he like some sort of insider who gets high a lot or just a meme

I wasn't around when he was active (short period apparently), think I saw one post before he got banned. But stuff that quoted the last days by userrs e.g. suggests that he's an insider who gets high a lot, yes. Forgot where the post are though, otherwise I'd quote one myself for you. Sorry.

I think it was @scribers who posted a lot of them.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

So much talk of "incredible naturally low lactate levels"

Talk about "specialised training that has come on leaps and bounds quickly"

Insane 100 rpm+ cadences on climbs

Is this 1999?


Also this made me laugh so *** much from Guimard:

Vingegaard and PogaÄar dominate the mountains, as French analysts dispute doping suspicions ⢠ProCyclingUK.com

Tadej PogaÄar and Jonas Vingegaard continue to leave the peloton in awe with their exceptional performances and relentless progression over the past four

procyclinguk.com

“Today’s riders, at the same age as in the past, have between 50 and 100 watts more power. Over the last 25 years, the population has grown by about 20 cm.”

Has he got dementia?

Average male height of European men born in:

1978: 177.03 cm
1987: 177.20 cm
1996: 177.22 cm

Also:
“When 15 riders go faster than Pantani or Armstrong, it’s not a doping issue. We are better trained, better prepared, and we have equipment that is more advanced than 15 or 20 years ago,” Guimard emphasised.

So it can't be doping because we know only ever a few riders use doping. Makes total sense. Like really a lot. So much so that I'd assume he definitely knows he talking ***.

 

[Sciatic]

Also:
“When 15 riders go faster than Pantani or Armstrong, it’s not a doping issue. We are better trained, better prepared, and we have equipment that is more advanced than 15 or 20 years ago,” Guimard emphasised.

So it can't be doping because we know only ever a few riders use doping. Makes total sense. Like really a lot. So much so that I'd assume he definitely knows he talking **

So true!

 

[Nick2413]

“When 15 guys are stronger than Eddie Hall, it’s not a doping issue.”

The logic is so strong it even works for other sports!

 

[ppanther92]

Froome even cleaner (and I've argued for years with mental people foaming from their mouths ffs...)

On the other hand, Froome really is the poster child of "from donkey to race horse". So I am totally convinced he was one of the heavy dopers back then. But it seemed like more the weigh loss stuff was en vogue.

 

[pastronef]

On the other hand, Froome really is the poster child of "from donkey to race horse". So I am totally convinced he was one of the heavy dopers back then. But it seemed like more the weigh loss stuff was en vogue.

OOC cortisone, ventolins, and voilà.

 

[NOT_NORMAL]

Armstrong was clean, compared with sunday.

He did nothing wrong. #JusticeForLance

 

[Penninepeddler]

Ahahaha. Pogi in L'Equipe when asked about the time:

"Six years ago, when I started, we focused mainly on starchy foods," Pogacar explained. "For breakfast, we mainly ate pasta, white rice and omelettes. Today, it's more varied, we have porridge, pancakes, omelettes, bread... These little things have made a difference and allowed us not to necessarily eat only pasta in the morning. But everything is weighed, everything is programmed for breakfast, for the stage, for after the stage."

And:

"The bikes are also so fast, the tyres really make a difference, the wheels, the aero frames. The bikes have evolved so much in the last five years."

I mean, #2 is just not very true is it? We know this. Especially in relation to climbs.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Ahahaha. Pogi in L'Equipe when asked about the time:

"Six years ago, when I started, we focused mainly on starchy foods," Pogacar explained. "For breakfast, we mainly ate pasta, white rice and omelettes. Today, it's more varied, we have porridge, pancakes, omelettes, bread... These little things have made a difference and allowed us not to necessarily eat only pasta in the morning. But everything is weighed, everything is programmed for breakfast, for the stage, for after the stage."

And:

"The bikes are also so fast, the tyres really make a difference, the wheels, the aero frames. The bikes have evolved so much in the last five years."

I mean, #2 is just not very true is it? We know this. Especially in relation to climbs.

From tomorrow I'm starting to mix various forms of carbs in my diet. I'm trekking in the mountains now so I'm expecting a massive boost of uphill speed thanks to Teddy's tips!

 

[Penninepeddler]

From tomorrow I'm starting to mix various forms of carbs in my diet. I'm trekking in the mountains now so I'm expecting a massive boost of uphill speed thanks to Teddy's tips!

Man, I always avoided bread and porridge in the morning tbh. Bread always felt like it weighed me down and porridge is slop that makes me feel like a baby.

I am a pasta, muesli and omelette guy.

Guess some bread and porridge would have ensured that instead of topping out in my sport at u-17 NT level I would have gone to the Olympics! Lmao.

 

[Red Rick]

Talk to a colleague today after coming off the toilet. Guy is Spanish, yet the talk was 5 seconds Alcaraz, 10 seconds of Euros, and 10 minutes of how insanely doped Pogacar and Vingegaard must be.

 

[Monoxidator]

Improved bikes don't increase the watts per kilo.

 

[Andon]

Porridge, pancakes, omelettes, bread... man, we're bound the see some very healthy tourists around the world as this hotel breakfast selection makes you strong for the day!

 

[ppanther92]

Improved bikes don't increase the watts per kilo.

Well, yes but in the outside-in-view calculation they do. And since we mostly discuss what Twitter users calculate based on times, and not actually power data, it does have an effect. I just fail to see where bikes should have gotten so much better over the past 5 years. Especially uphill where its less about aerodynamics and more about weight and bikes reach the minimum weight since decades already.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Re; Aero gains from bikes, from expert Alban Lorenzini. The gains from aerobikes on flat/fast sections of courses are pretty substantial, but this drops at lower speeds.

Antoine: As soon as it slows down, in the passes, the equipment plays less and less role, so the gains and the gaps between modern bikes and equipment compared to the 2000s are rapidly reduced?

Alban Lorenzini;
After 20 km/h or even 25 km/h, which is a speed often reached by pros even on climbs of more than 5%, the aerodynamic and rolling gains can add up a little. Compared to the 2000s and at 25 km/h, we could estimate at more than 5 watts in aero on bikes. Nevertheless, the 5 aero watts of bikes are open to discussion. Some mountain bikes like the Cervelo R5 from Visma have very few aerodynamic improvements, apart from the integration of cables on the cockpit (one-piece handlebar + stem). Pogacar does not have an ultra "fast" bike either. We can estimate a gain of 2 or 3 watts at 25 km/h. He rides most of the time with high wheels to compensate a little for this lack of speed.

 

[NOT_NORMAL]

“Today’s riders, at the same age as in the past, have between 50 and 100 watts more power. Over the last 25 years, the population has grown by about 20 cm.”

Has he got dementia?

Nice find. Doping apologists are a real hoot. Imagine being so re tarded. Almost makes me think it's satire, but I can't be bothered to verify it so I just hope it's authentic.

 

[bNator]

This has probably already been discussed here, but still... The group of favourites started the climb 2:20 down on the breakaway and once Jonas attacked, their advantage was down to 40 seconds. So if Pantani waited with his attack until the similar point and his group was doing similar tempo (maybe even slower) to that of Sunday's breakaway, that's 1:40 we can subtract from their difference right away. And then he (Pantani) attacked solo which means his effort should be compared to that of Jonas rather than that of Pog, who was in Jonas's slipstream for half of their attack. And once we take 1:40 from Jonas's time, it's "only" 40 seconds on Pantani's time for Jonas while Pog got a bit more because he was in the slipstream and because he's better than Pantani. The rest is down to equipment, better training methodology and nutrition. Problem solved

 

[NOT_NORMAL]

This has probably already been discussed here, but still... The group of favourites started the climb 2:20 down on the breakaway and once Jonas attacked, their advantage was down to 40 seconds. So if Pantani waited with his attack until the similar point and his group was doing similar tempo (maybe even slower) to that of Sunday's breakaway, that's 1:40 we can subtract from their difference right away. And then he (Pantani) attacked solo which means his effort should be compared to that of Jonas rather than that of Pog, who was in Jonas's slipstream for half of their attack. And once we take 1:40 from Jonas's time, it's "only" 40 seconds on Pantani's time for Jonas while Pog got a bit more because he was in the slipstream and because he's better than Pantani. The rest is down to equipment, better training methodology and nutrition. Problem solved

Not sure what you're saying or if you're even serious, but Pantani is almost a red herring. They are riding these climbs like 5 minutes faster than the best climbers of 5 years ago, while also destroying the field in the TTs.

 

[Netserk]

This has probably already been discussed here, but still... The group of favourites started the climb 2:20 down on the breakaway and once Jonas attacked, their advantage was down to 40 seconds. So if Pantani waited with his attack until the similar point and his group was doing similar tempo (maybe even slower) to that of Sunday's breakaway, that's 1:40 we can subtract from their difference right away. And then he (Pantani) attacked solo which means his effort should be compared to that of Jonas rather than that of Pog, who was in Jonas's slipstream for half of their attack. And once we take 1:40 from Jonas's time, it's "only" 40 seconds on Pantani's time for Jonas while Pog got a bit more because he was in the slipstream and because he's better than Pantani. The rest is down to equipment, better training methodology and nutrition. Problem solved

Even when you account for drafting, Pogi climbed Beille faster than Riis climbed Hautacam. Faster than Pantani's record on Alpe d'Huez. You read that right, more powerful than unlimited EPO.

 

[bNator]

Not sure what you're saying or if you're even serious, but Pantani is almost a red herring. They are riding these climbs like 5 minutes faster than the best climbers of 5 years ago, while also destroying the field in the TTs.

Half serious... What I am trying to say though, is that if we use comparison with Pantani as means to evaluate the risk of riders being doped, we shouldn't operate with 3:30 gap but due to the circumstances and context of the race, the realistic gap is much smaller. These were my suggested values: 0:40 to Vingegaard and 1:48 to Pogacar. I'm not sure if they are correct, of course. I don't know when exactly Pantani started the attack and I don't know how fast they went up to that point - I just assumed he attacked at a similar point on the climb and that the group used similar pace to that of our Sunday's breakaway. Maybe some guys here know some more...

 

[bNator]

Even when you account for drafting, Pogi climbed Beille faster than Riis climbed Hautacam. Faster than Pantani's record on Alpe d'Huez. You read that right, more powerful than unlimited EPO.

That's only if you trust the calculations. Which I don't and the proof I'm using (in other thread) is Remco. Other than that, there's no direct comparison between those performances.

 

[repoman]

Ahahaha. Pogi in L'Equipe when asked about the time:

"Six years ago, when I started, we focused mainly on starchy foods," Pogacar explained. "For breakfast, we mainly ate pasta, white rice and omelettes. Today, it's more varied, we have porridge, pancakes, omelettes, bread... These little things have made a difference and allowed us not to necessarily eat only pasta in the morning. But everything is weighed, everything is programmed for breakfast, for the stage, for after the stage."

And:

"The bikes are also so fast, the tyres really make a difference, the wheels, the aero frames. The bikes have evolved so much in the last five years."

I mean, #2 is just not very true is it? We know this. Especially in relation to climbs.

I believe there was a somewhat recent test of a circa 2015 Cervelo S5 and it was superior aerodynamically to many current crop aero bikes, it was also considerably lighter.

 

[Tim Cahill]

That's only if you trust the calculations. Which I don't and the proof I'm using (in other thread) is Remco. Other than that, there's no direct comparison between those performances.

 

[bNator]

Now I’m repeating myself from other thread a bit but never mind… What is “very accurate”? How many percents accurate? It’s an important question to answer when Jonas and Remco were only 5% apart according to these calculations.

If these calculations were correct, then Pog is 7% better than his previous best power-wise and Jonas is 5% better. But what Jonas also said “almost go as far as to say” when asked if this was his best performance ever? So what is it - almost best or 5% better than the second best?

I'm not saying these guys aren't doping, to be clear. It's just that I find it pretty hard to believe they would produce 7 and 5% outliers when compared to their second best efforts (according to calculations) especially considering that if they are doping, this probably wouldn't be the first time they've done it. So long story short, while this is fishy for sure, the evidence is in my opinion greatly exaggerated.

 

[Netserk]

Half serious... What I am trying to say though, is that if we use comparison with Pantani as means to evaluate the risk of riders being doped, we shouldn't operate with 3:30 gap but due to the circumstances and context of the race, the realistic gap is much smaller. These were my suggested values: 0:40 to Vingegaard and 1:48 to Pogacar. I'm not sure if they are correct, of course. I don't know when exactly Pantani started the attack and I don't know how fast they went up to that point - I just assumed he attacked at a similar point on the climb and that the group used similar pace to that of our Sunday's breakaway. Maybe some guys here know some more...

Vingegaard attacked ~10.8 km from the finish. He had no draft from then on until the finish. Pantani attacked ~3 km sooner, I think. Minimal difference. In the last ~9.5 km of the climb, Vingegaard was around 1'44" faster than Pantani (and also took time on him before that).

Your suggestion is baseless.