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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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I am a frequent reader here, first time poster. But I joined because I’ve been seeing a lot of comments lately about how aerodynamic improvements are contributing to these performances.

Aero no doubt gets better and better, but every single quantification of the actual difference it makes in a bike race I’ve ever seen has been a full blown guess. Having designed control surfaces for aircraft most of my life I can assure you that no one is actually modeling out any of this bike stuff with any degree of accuracy, nor is that even possible to do.
Bbb..bbut Jeff from Silca said if I wear $70 dollar socks I will save 40w!
 
I ve been reading about San Millan. It is normal people has his doubts and questions, but maybe he is just the best and doesnt need any doping to make people fly. Alava is close to my house, so I am proud people from here are so important. We have a very bad past in doping issues in Spain, but who knows, and I believe that, this is just legal science.

Anyway, and without any Knowledge about how it is works...if not all the teams can reach this techonogy and the efect is not the same for everybody, we are at the same efects in fact to sport performance than doping.

For me better, becouse it is legal and surely better for health, and teams have to have his freadom to get his riders the best way prepared by legal methods...an ethicaly is better, but in fact is some way is to come back to the doping era, no totally , but quite similar. But as it is legal, I will forget this in someway and enjoy cycling.
 
Ok went to Pog's Strava segment for Beille and did a calculation for the final 5 km of that segment, just after Pog attacked Vinge. I get an average power of 6.81 W/kg for that segment. This is assuming no wind and no draft. For the entire climb, you get 6.57 - again no draft effect considered (which would lower the value) but also no slope&pace irregularities (which would make it higher)...

Of course I don't know many of the exact parameters, so here's the python code to play along if anyone wants to (add wind effect etc..):

import math

# simulation parameters
g = 9.8067
crr = 0.0023
CdA = 0.24
Rho = 1.11
drivetrain_efficiency = 0.98

# route parameters
distance = 5000
altitude_diff = 359
time_delta = 11*60 + 32

# rider parameters
rider_weight = 65
bike_weight = 7.8
other_stuff_weight = 0.5

gradient_percent = altitude_diff / distance * 100
speed_avg = distance / time_delta
system_weight = rider_weight + bike_weight + other_stuff_weight

F_g = g * math.sin(math.atan(gradient_percent / 100)) * system_weight
F_rr = g * math.cos(math.atan(gradient_percent / 100)) * system_weight * crr
F_wr = 0.5 * CdA * Rho * speed_avg * speed_avg

P = (F_g + F_rr + F_wr) * speed_avg / drivetrain_efficiency
p_per_kilo = P / rider_weight

print(p_per_kilo)

P.S. If there's any python coder out there, I know the code is terrible, I only use python for fooling around...
Not only it's a terrible code, it's probably a terrible code from ChatGPT or other LLM. Am I right?
 
Not only it's a terrible code, it's probably a terrible code from ChatGPT or other LLM. Am I right?
Why would you assume that? I doubt ChatGPT would make caps errors when declaring constants😁 That’s quite a compliment, to be honest…

It’s just a simple analytical solution of cycling power computation - there are many sources over the web to confirm it. Other than disregarding drag effect and wind, it should be correct for the chosen parameters.

And even drag is basically just multiplying wind resistance component by some value like 0.8 while wind would be adding/subtracting perpendicular projection of wind vector to that same component…
 
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The cycling media environment was very different in 2007. They don't have to make outright allegations for the tune to be starkly different to the current one.

Right now, it has become common to outright claim that all the top riders are clean, that the peloton is the cleanest it has ever been. There's no toleration for any scepticism.
I agree but I'd add in a couple more factors for why I think this is the case: accusation fatigue, and changes in how journalism and media is viewed in generam society.

I think there's an element of "not again..." to ignoring rides like Pogacar's, and I personally understand it. An element of, there was all this drama, all these cases, and nothing appears to have changed. So why bother?

Plus, investigative or hard journalism is long gone. In politics as well as cycling, if you're annoying and ask interesting questions or go deeper into an issue as a journalist, you lose access to riders/teams/politicians. It also costs more money than churning out race reports or fun tiktok interviews, and there's an attempt by media to be very pally with teams and riders (which allows for better "content", like the Netflix show or current pros commentating).
 
I ve been reading about San Millan. It is normal people has his doubts and questions, but maybe he is just the best and doesnt need any doping to make people fly. Alava is close to my house, so I am proud people from here are so important. We have a very bad past in doping issues in Spain, but who knows, and I believe that, this is just legal science.

Anyway, and without any Knowledge about how it is works...if not all the teams can reach this techonogy and the efect is not the same for everybody, we are at the same efects in fact to sport performance than doping.

For me better, becouse it is legal and surely better for health, and teams have to have his freadom to get his riders the best way prepared by legal methods...an ethicaly is better, but in fact is some way is to come back to the doping era, no totally , but quite similar. But as it is legal, I will forget this in someway and enjoy cycling.
If anything, i think history has taught us that not everyone responds the same.

With regards to San Milan, it's normal that people call BS on him. Honestly. Riis had a full fledged blood programme while also having a publicly known testing programme in co-operation with Bispebjerg Hospital and Rasmus Damsgaard. Not everyone is as arrogantly dumb as Ferrari with his orange juice statement.
 
A sport with a failed business model (or a nonexistent one) has been bailed out by money from a sportswashing government. Of course everyone that relies on the status quo to pay their bills is going to be reluctant to blow the whistle. The way this changes is likely with a police investigation, criminal charges etc, the same as it did 25 years ago. The MUCH less likely change agent would be a reinvented business model where the sport makes money without relying on the charity of sponsors.
 
A sport with a failed business model (or a nonexistent one) has been bailed out by money from a sportswashing government. Of course everyone that relies on the status quo to pay their bills is going to be reluctant to blow the whistle. The way this changes is likely with a police investigation, criminal charges etc, the same as it did 25 years ago. The MUCH less likely change agent would be a reinvented business model where the sport makes money without relying on the charity of sponsors.

Maybe I missed something, but how did one sportswashig government bail out pro cycling?
 
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A sport with a failed business model (or a nonexistent one) has been bailed out by money from a sportswashing government. Of course everyone that relies on the status quo to pay their bills is going to be reluctant to blow the whistle. The way this changes is likely with a police investigation, criminal charges etc, the same as it did 25 years ago. The MUCH less likely change agent would be a reinvented business model where the sport makes money without relying on the charity of sponsors.
It’s almost always a police investigation that gets it done in the end. The question is, what will they find? Yet more blood bags with some nicknames?
 
Jul 15, 2024
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'I don't know what it is' – Tour de France leader Tadej Pogačar brushes aside question on carbon monoxide rebreather use.
Really intresting cause UAE admits that they have the rebreather in use as testing equipment. So the "I don't know what it is" could well be "yes I have been inhaling it as much as possible this season" 🫠
https://escapecollective.com/exclus...ing-carbon-monoxide-in-super-altitude-recipe/
The article is behind a wall, but can be read for free with an email address. It's a long one, but worth the read.
 
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Really intresting cause UAE admits that they have the rebreather in use as testing equipment. So the "I don't know what is" could well be "yes I have been inhaling it as much as possible this season" 🫠
https://escapecollective.com/exclus...ing-carbon-monoxide-in-super-altitude-recipe/
The article is behind a wall, but can be read for free with an email address. It's a long one, but worth the read.


"go karts" :tearsofjoy:
 
'I don't know what it is' – Tour de France leader Tadej Pogačar brushes aside question on carbon monoxide rebreather use.
I posted about this in another thread, but to me Pogo's response is disingenuous. It's a pretty bad look that his team uses it, almost guaranteed that they used it on him, and he cracks some jokes like he doesn't know what the f*** it is. It smells like BS
 
I posted about this in another thread, but to me Pogo's response is disingenuous. It's a pretty bad look that his team uses it, almost guaranteed that they used it on him, and he cracks some jokes like he doesn't know what the f*** it is. It smells like BS
The reflex is just to dissimulate when asked about anything that could be seen as offering an unfair advantage. Ofc he knew what it was and also that he used it.