Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Casual cyclist]

I don't think he cruised to victory, that is an exaggeration.

Cadel Evans got up from a worse crash in the 2008 Tour. Professionals are paid to keep riding when they crash. It is part of the job. And every crash is different.

Riding (not quitting) after a crash is still a bit different from easily dropping an in-form breakaway companion and jokingly putting 1.5min into him in just a few kilometers before easing off and enjoying the glory.

Plus, not sure how doping can help except to dull pain.

Fully agree on this one. But a good brushless (or similar) system fed by a freshly charged dozen of li-ion cells can just assume the forward propulsion task thereby making a diminished biological capability kind of irrelevant.

But pain killing substances are easily detected.

Cadel Evans Crash - Stage 9 - 2008 Tour de France

True that as well. But I think we already agreed on a sort of "cooperation" on the controllers' part being necessary for this kind of WWE-like circus to carry on.

 

[Cookster15]

Riding (not quitting) after a crash is still a bit different from easily dropping an in-form breakaway companion and jokingly putting 1.5min into him in just a few kilometers before easing off and enjoying the glory.

Fully agree on this one. But a good brushless (or similar) system fed by a freshly charged dozen of li-ion cells can just assume the forward propulsion task thereby making a diminished biological capability kind of irrelevant.

True that as well. But I think we already agreed on a sort of "cooperation" on the controllers' part being necessary for this kind of WWE-like circus to carry on.

Oh no, not motors again! . Serves me right for coming back to the place of the weird and wonderful - The Clinic!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Oh no, not motors again! . Serves me right for coming back to the place of the weird and wonderful - The Clinic!

Teddy: "I can't do it anymore, I'm so painful"
Mauro: "Boy, show the people what they want to see" {pushing a button in his RC]

 

[ivanic]

I don't think he cruised to victory, that is an exaggeration.

Cadel Evans got up from a worse crash in the 2008 Tour. Professionals are paid to keep riding when they crash. It is part of the job. And every crash is different. Plus, not sure how doping can help except to dull pain. But pain killing substances are easily detected.

Cadel Evans Crash - Stage 9 - 2008 Tour de France

If he hadn't fallen, what would have happened? Would he have exploded like a nuclear bomb?



This guy has taken the problem too far, probably not at Armstrong's level in terms of popularity but as for palmares there is no comparison.
If this guy fails a doping test, cycling would no longer be able to survive.
That's why it will never happen and if it does happen they will never say it.

 

[noob]

If he hadn't fallen, what would have happened? Would he have exploded like a nuclear bomb?



This guy has taken the problem too far, probably not at Armstrong's level in terms of popularity but as for palmares there is no comparison.
If this guy fails a doping test, cycling would no longer be able to survive.
That's why it will never happen and if it does happen they will never say it.

And that's why it's so effing frustrating since all competition is gone

 

[Peyroteo94]

The most impressive thing about SB is how fit his thighs look. A beast!

 

[Raest]

Rode like a gentleman, a good sportsman.
If staying composed and in control is super human, Pogacar fits the description. UAE rode a great race..
Wellens and Del Toro popped almost everyone before Pogacar had to do much, Pidcock and Conner Swift broke bike racing rules 1,2,3..know your limits and know history!! If you find yourself alone with Pogacar you contribute nothing, zero, not even a small pull..your job is to get behind him, eat, drink, draft and rest.. If you are Conner or Tom, don't get caught up in the moment, there is a reason that Pog is in rainbow jersey, even if it's temporarily torn, muddy and bloody!!
And for reference.. Today at Adriatico Del Toro in top 10 in ITT, UAE with 2 riders in top 10!! UAE is showing mastery not mockery!!

UAE perfomances are reminescent of the good old Postal days where we had Georgie Hincapie dropping every climber but Armstrong on the Alpes, riding tempo. Swap Hincapie with Politt or Wellens or whoever happens to be the lead domestique(s) and nothing has changed.
Thankfully Discovery channel's greed means that I'll be spared from Pog's "extraordinary" performances this year. It'll make my Zwift sessions more boring but will do wonders for my mental well being

 

[pastronef]

UAE perfomances are reminescent of the good old Postal days where we had Georgie Hincapie dropping every climber but Armstrong on the Alpes, riding tempo. Swap Hincapie with Politt or Wellens or whoever happens to be the lead domestique(s) and nothing has changed.
Thankfully Discovery channel's greed means that I'll be spared from Pog's "extraordinary" performances this year. It'll make my Zwift sessions more boring but will do wonders for my mental well being

your mental well being shouldn't depend on who wins races no?
your economic well being sure depends also on Discovery's huge costs and I agree with you to skip it

 

[Casual cyclist]

Teddy: "I can't do it anymore, I'm so painful"
Mauro: "Boy, show the people what they want to see" {pushing a button in his RC]

In a humorous form, that's likely pretty much what happened. A bike change came handy this way since only a quarter of the distance was left to be covered. Under normal circumstances, they were probably planning on, say, 100W worth of "smart" assist in the finale. But given the extenuating circumstances, a valid medical reason, so to speak, 300W or so became "well justified." And the freshly charged li-ion in the new bike were happy to provide that.

 

[Raest]

your economic well being sure depends also on Discovery's huge football costs and I agree with you to skip it

fixed.

 

[anti -e-bike]

Oh no, not motors again! . Serves me right for coming back to the place of the weird and wonderful - The Clinic!

you are way to weak for the truth

 

[pastronef]

you are way to weak for the truth

well it's been a while. investigation into Varjas, the French police, Vildary, etc etc. nothing, zero. we can almost say medical doping was there to be seen, and positives came, and seizing came, and police busts came.
motors? zero. zilch, nada
microdising exists
motors? bah....

 

[Extinction]

you are way to weak for the truth

Not at all, but I want to see it come out, if it exists. By the way, nice Diogenes in the barrel.

 

[Extinction]

well it's been a while. investigation into Varjas, the French police, Vildary, etc etc. nothing, zero. we can almost say medical doping was there to be seen, and positives came, and seizing came, and police busts came.
motors? zero. zilch, nada
microdising exists
motors? bah....

It was the same with the first generation EPO, however. I'm neutral, in the sense that nothing would suprise me anymore, but there must be a public and potentially lethal scandal to know for sure. How many times have we heard before"no, it can't be!"...and then it is.

 

[cnort]

well it's been a while. investigation into Varjas, the French police, Vildary, etc etc. nothing, zero. we can almost say medical doping was there to be seen, and positives came, and seizing came, and police busts came.
motors? zero. zilch, nada
microdising exists
motors? bah....

A lack of evidence that it is happening is not evidence that it is not happening. We know it is possible to hide a motor in a bike and we also know it has been done in professional cycling, albeit in one case in cyclocross. History tells us that the authorities have a poor track record in catching pharmacological dopers, so why would we expect them to be good at catching motor-dopers?

I presume there is no recording of bike in-race swaps by the UCI, although surely they have to know for the transponders. I think it would be interesting to run a world tour race where the only bike changes can be from neutral service. I'm not suggesting a return to the good old days of riders doing their own repairs, but certainly making bike-checking more complete to create real reassurance.

Of course, maybe Joe Public doesn't give a hoot whether the riders are on bicycles or motorbikes...

 

[hfer07]

Poga's powers keep on increasing .....
even crashing ain't enough to slow him down ....

 

[anti -e-bike]

well it's been a while. investigation into Varjas, the French police, Vildary, etc etc. nothing, zero. we can almost say medical doping was there to be seen, and positives came, and seizing came, and police busts came.
motors? zero. zilch, nada
microdising exists
motors? bah....

use your perception combined with your cognition
don't you think pog and jonas (also others)
have a very strange cadence, looks really unatural
and explains also the fact that they never look really tired, only when they pretend to be tired

 

[pastronef]

use your perception combined with your cognition
don't you think pog and jonas (also others)
have a very strange cadence, looks really unatural
and explains also the fact that they never look really tired, only when they pretend to be tired

Jonas forgot to engage the motor yesterday
every rider has his own cadence and style
are they using medical legal/illegal/undetectable/grey-area stuff? yes
motors? bah

 

[Casual cyclist]

Jonas forgot to engage the motor yesterday

Nobody claimed that they use motors in every single race. Plus, Jonas at this time does not appear to be the most obvious e-biker in the peloton. That honor belongs to the namesake of this thread. So we might as well concentrate on him as the most pure academic case of the phenomenon in question.

every rider has his own cadence and style
are they using medical legal/illegal/undetectable/grey-area stuff? yes
motors? bah

You might want to rewatch the performance of the aforementioned namesake from the last year while paying attention to the ease of them and often quite literal lack of sweat. If that's "grey area," how do you believe a "black" one would look like?

P.S. As was noted in this thread a bit earlier, some people are just "too weak for the truth" , i.e. tend to give too much credit to the current system in various aspects.

 

[pastronef]

Nobody claimed that they use motors in every single race. Plus, Jonas at this time does not appear to be the most obvious e-biker in the peloton. That honor belongs to the namesake of this thread. So we might as well concentrate on him as the most pure academic case of the phenomenon in question.

You might want to rewatch the performance of the aforementioned namesake from the last year while paying attention to the ease of them and often quite literal lack of sweat. If that's "grey area," how do you believe a "black" one would look like?

P.S. As was noted in this thread a bit earlier, some people are just "too weak for the truth" , i.e. tend to give too much credit to the current system in various aspects.

I'll be the first to shout when a motor will be caught. until now nothing. no angry former soigneur, or former rider, or not even messages, or hints. dear me we've seen what jealousy and riverly and desire for vengeance do in life and sport. people know stuff, wives, family, staff, they know and yet not even an anonymous letter to a newspaper, nothing.

FFS it took a fantasy Russian/Ukrainian whistleblower (she does not exist) to hook a French journo into believing she had info on motors! that's the level of desperation. desperation.

I look forward to a motor bust.
until know I believe in chemical stuff and grey area and not yet banned stuff.

 

[topcat]

If Sky were caught using motors, there would have been uproar whereas if Pog was caught with a motor they'd probably call it tactical nous. Has Pog given gifts of motors to the kids?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

If Sky were caught using motors, there would have been uproar whereas if Pog was caught with a motor they'd probably call it tactical nous. Has Pog given gifts of motors to the kids?

Pogacar is the only rider to cheat with motors on both the classics and grand tours successfully, this is unprecedented in the modern era and that's why he's the goat.

Jonas can only do it in July and roglic is always crashing because he's a buffoon who doesn't have the guile to use the motor in the right moment and gets wheel spin. They don't have the race craft, the guile of the goat

 

[Cookster15]

A lack of evidence that it is happening is not evidence that it is not happening. We know it is possible to hide a motor in a bike and we also know it has been done in professional cycling, albeit in one case in cyclocross. History tells us that the authorities have a poor track record in catching pharmacological dopers, so why would we expect them to be good at catching motor-dopers?

I presume there is no recording of bike in-race swaps by the UCI, although surely they have to know for the transponders. I think it would be interesting to run a world tour race where the only bike changes can be from neutral service. I'm not suggesting a return to the good old days of riders doing their own repairs, but certainly making bike-checking more complete to create real reassurance.

Of course, maybe Joe Public doesn't give a hoot whether the riders are on bicycles or motorbikes...

If there are motors being used then its more than just one rider and team so you should post in the motor doping thread - not here. And the UCI does carry out bike checks. The Tour de France is the most televised event in the world. Pretty sure people are going to notice bike in-race swaps.

https://www.uci.org/pressrelease/th...echnological-fraud-for/5j3GqEVkRlbPZaa3HfwVag.

This is what the UCI did during the 2024 Tour:

After each stage, checks will be carried out on bikes ridden by:

• the stage winner,
• riders wearing a leader’s jersey (yellow, green, polka dot, white),
• several randomly-selected riders, and
• any rider who gives rise to suspicion, for example following the pre-stage control, or incidents picked up by the UCI Video Commissaire.

So Pogacar's bike would be inspected more than any other rider. And nobody can hide a motor from a trained mechanic. The cyclocross case was very amateurish .

But this is the classic conspiracy theory. Have any of you people heard of Occam's razor?

 

[YellowSocks]

I'll be the first to shout when a motor will be caught. until now nothing. no angry former soigneur, or former rider, or not even messages, or hints. dear me we've seen what jealousy and riverly and desire for vengeance do in life and sport. people know stuff, wives, family, staff, they know and yet not even an anonymous letter to a newspaper, nothing.

I don't know if motors are being used or not, but one must admit nothing leaks either about whatever the people named in the title of this thread are doing/using to crush the competition (call it grey or black area, nobody in this part of the forum believes there is not something behind it).

 

[Casual cyclist]

If there are motors being used then its more than just one rider and team so you should post in the motor doping thread - not here. And the UCI does carry out bike checks. The Tour de France is the most televised event in the world. Pretty sure people are going to notice bike in-race swaps.

These are routine and nobody pays any attention to them.

https://www.uci.org/pressrelease/th...echnological-fraud-for/5j3GqEVkRlbPZaa3HfwVag.

This is what the UCI did during the 2024 Tour:



So Pogacar's bike would be inspected more than any other rider. And nobody can hide a motor from a trained mechanic. The cyclocross case was very amateurish .

But this is the classic conspiracy theory.

Recently in this thread, we've already gone over the origins and rational content (none) of that "conspiracy theory" sarcastic chicle that is really nothing more than a slightly veiled form of a statement of a loyal belief in the system's "openness" and "integrity" (since stating it directly even sounds funny, doesn't it?)

Have any of you people heard of Occam's razor?

This is a really primitive and antiquated (to the tune of seven centuries) philosophical principle that only people taking simpletons like Hume and Mach seriously would use as a valid argument. But it still can be changed slightly to be of practical value in the modern world. Namely, faced with two (or more) possible explanations of a somewhat miraculously looking phenomenon (like doing over 7W/kg with a smile and no sweat), one should always choose the one most feasible technically, assuming absolutely no constraints on "moral" issues, or "collusions" ("conspiracies"), given the latter are also technically feasible (which, in this case, they clearly are).