Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Stablo]

ITA takes care of the UCI races testing as well as the Olympic testing. same agency

International Testing Agency-Olympic Games Paris 2024

ita.sport

Ok didn't know that, but UCI doesn't have the same control of the race, after race etc in an olympic event i think. I mean who is tested, when is the test and which riders are only "tested". And if we believe that there's a possibility of some high end motordoping(it surely often looks like it), the UCI couldnt protect their golden boy at the olympics.

 

[pastronef]

Ok didn't know that, but UCI doesn't have the same control of the race, after race etc in an olympic event i think. I mean who is tested, when is the test and which riders are only "tested". And if we believe that there's a possibility of some high end motordoping(it surely often looks like it), the UCI couldnt protect their golden boy at the olympics.

seems that Remco didn't fear the motor-finders in Paris. double gold

 

[Stablo]

seems that Remco didn't fear the motor-finders in Paris. double gold

He doesn't use one and surely didn't need one cause poggie was absent. 😉 Anyway Remco pulling of solos (a lot less crazy solos aswell) is much more beliavable with his aero position and expectional TT-abilities, than teddys no effort looking coalminer grinta. It was ridicilous how much time poggie took in Il Lombardia to Remco on the easier part, while looking like on sunday ride.
Edit. was supposed to add that Remco also was/is considered one the biggest talent's ever to enter the sport, true generational talent. On the other hand Poggie was just a good rider propably going to make a good professional career, until he joined forces with the vampire&UAE.
And don't take me wrong I think they are all on at least something from the gray area, but the team UAE&Gianetti are the outlier here, they have something special. Poggie wins or challenges one of the all time best one day racers in MDVP on his terrain, then goes winning two GT's while shattering climbing records after the other, to top it off with never seen WC&Lombardia performances(+Liege,Strade, Catalonia etc.).
IMHO theres only three explanations:
1.They have something new&better than the others
2.Poggie is super super super responder
3. One of the two above+ that extra 50w or so from a sophisticated motor

Many of his attacks look the same, he has a good kick, but then it changes compared to anyone else, he just keeps the pace up and going, the drop in the wattages/speed after the initial attack is a lot less than it's for the others. Kilometers after Kilometers of effortless grinding with never before seen wattages, that's where my suspicion on the motor lies, giving some handy extra power to keep it up. And off course being in super top shape from early spring to late autumn, with no off days.

 

[Cookster15]

Should be a rule where posters declare their allegiance to riders. When we check posting history it makes more sense why some posters spend so much effort on wild unlikely conspiracy theories about motor doping and UCI collusion.

 

[pastronef]

On the other hand Poggie was just a good rider propably going to make a good professional career, until he joined forces with the vampire&UAE.

Pog is a Tour de l'Avenir winner. he won Algarve 1 month after turning pro.
well, Remco joined forces with Quickstep, not saints either. if these invisible motors are invisible, then both Remco and Pog could use one (they don't ffs)

 

[Cookster15]

On the other hand Poggie was just a good rider propably going to make a good professional career, until he joined forces with the vampire&UAE.

He was what - 18 then? Everyone improves hugely when they are that young. This is the entire flaw with the OPs reasoning.

And presumably we would improve even more if given access to professional team resources. Traditional doping methods used by every team together with natural talent explains Pogacar. Otherwise., how else did certain other presumably non motorized riders push him on occasions? And presumably rivals teams would be concerned and be protesting?

By all means accuse Pogacar of getting away with oxygen vector doping but maintaining this nonsense about motors doesn't help the credibility of anyone claiming it.

 

[Gratemans]

Should be a rule where posters declare their allegiance to riders. When we check posting history it makes more sense why some posters spend so much effort on wild unlikely conspiracy theories about motor doping and UCI collusion.

Anyone saying Vingegaards 2023 TT wasn't equally ridiculous certainly has a bit of a... bias.
They're both probably on something.
That being said, the UCI looking the other way wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Cookster15]

Anyone saying Vingegaards 2023 TT wasn't equally ridiculous certainly has a bit of a... bias.
They're both probably on something.
That being said, the UCI looking the other way wouldn't surprise me at all.

Yes, agree with all of that. But motor doping? Just no.

 

[Gratemans]

Yes, agree with all of that. But motor doping? Just no.

I don't think so either, but I can't be as sure as you. Too much has happened in the past for that. (though admittedly, no evidence of motors so far except that one Belgian girl)

 

[Stablo]

Should be a rule where posters declare their allegiance to riders. When we check posting history it makes more sense why some posters spend so much effort on wild unlikely conspiracy theories about motor doping and UCI collusion.

With last year in mind i think it's more likely than not. I have no problems with normalish performances during a season in this hahaha-era. Poggies performances are not even in the same solar system of normal anymore. With +25 years of close following in procycling i have never witnessed a travesty like this. With the dirtiest people of all behind the team I wouldn't be suprised of anything. Imagine if Bruyneel was allowed to be cheering his new prodigy after every race, giving interviews smiling etc, what an absolute joke.

 

[Cookster15]

I don't think so either, but I can't be as sure as you. Too much has happened in the past for that. (though admittedly, no evidence of motors so far except that one Belgian girl)

One Belgian amateur girl. Motors make no sense. Why would the UCI risk this? The downside to the UCI itself from a business point of view vastly outweighs any benefit of so called"petrodollars". In my country we would call this doesn't pass the pub test.

 

[Cookster15]

With last year in mind i think it's more likely than not. I have no problems with normalish performances during a season in this hahaha-era. Poggies performances are not even in the same solar system of normal anymore. With +25 years of close following in procycling i have never witnessed a travesty like this. With the dirtiest people of all behind the team I wouldn't be suprised of anything. Imagine if Bruyneel was allowed to be cheering his new prodigy after every race, giving interviews smiling etc, what an absolute joke.

Unfounded accusations and why not a sniff of complaints from the likes of Visma or Soudal–Quick-Step?

I've been following the sport closely since 1992 and loosely since Lemond and Hinaut.

Motors doesn't pass the pub test.

 

[Gratemans]

Fair enough and I hope you're right. Call me a hypocrite but to me motodoping is way, way worse than blooddoping, epo, carbon minoxide etc.

 

[Stablo]

Pog is a Tour de l'Avenir winner. he won Algarve 1 month after turning pro.
well, Remco joined forces with Quickstep, not saints either. if these invisible motors are invisible, then both Remco and Pog could use one (they don't ffs)

This one Tour de l'Avenir win keeps coming up like it would indicate anything else than a good junior. If that was some super magical result, we would have severel generational talents coming every year. The motor suspicion came up only last season for me, so ridicilous it was and then the shady events after the 100km solo&conviniently skipping the olympics. So many effortless attacks and energy saving was made all season long. Watched most of the races live and some on replay.

 

[Stablo]

Anyone saying Vingegaards 2023 TT wasn't equally ridiculous certainly has a bit of a... bias.
They're both probably on something.
That being said, the UCI looking the other way wouldn't surprise me at all.

Yes totally true, but that Vingegaard thing was still just one TT-performance. Poggie did +10 of those last season alone. I actually cheered for the Vinge performance, cause it made the mafia like crooks behind poggie to loose the Tour.

 

[Cookster15]

Yes totally true, but that Vingegaard thing was still just one TT-performance. Poggie did +10 of those last season alone. I actually cheered for the Vinge performance, cause it made the mafia like crooks behind poggie to loose the Tour.

Nah, people like Tom Dumoulin claimed Vinge's 2023 Combloux TT was the best TT ever. Better than Indurain in the heights of the EPO era by a 58Kg skeleton? It made me quite ill at the time. In 2024 Pogacar never made me feel ill like that day.

 

[Cookster15]

The motor suspicion came up only last season for me, so ridicilous it was

Its is ridiculous to keep pushing this motor doping nonsense when there are more likely explanations.

 

[Stablo]

Unfounded accusations and why not a sniff of complaints from the likes of Visma or Soudal–Quick-Step?

Maybe they haven't found out what is going on or cant copy it yet? Visma clearly catched with the Gianetti crooks for a season or two, but then the antes was upped again and last year was the final straw for me and i had to speak about and speculate WT* are we actually witnessing. Motor theiry maybe doesn't pass the pub test in your opinion, but i wouldn't be suprised if it was what they came up to be sure to beat Vinges&Vismas ass. And the performances last year surely dont make it any less likely.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Nah, people like Tom Dumoulin claimed Vinge's 2023 Combloux TT was the best TT ever. Better than Indurain in the heights of the EPO era by a 58Kg skeleton? It made me quite ill at the time. In 2024 Pogacar never made me feel ill like that day.

I like Pogi but I actually had doubts after most ridiculous performances of the last year: PdB (no explanation needed) and Lombardy (3'-5' gaps over top rivals!)

 

[Cookster15]

I like Pogi but I actually had doubts after most ridiculous performances of the last year: PdB (no explanation needed) and Lombardy (3'-5' gaps over top rivals!)

Sure, but motors? No.

Edit: And about PdB, you say that was ridiculous but was it really so much? The moment which did seem ridiculous was when Pogi sat up for a drink on Vingo's wheel.

But we forget that Vingegaard arrived at the Tour after a rushed recovery from horrific injuries suffered in April. Vingegaard still comfortably beat Remco that day on PdB. I would not object here so much today but felt compelled by this completely unfounded motor doping which relies on UCI conspiracy and so called "petrodollars". Those making these claims should provide far more solid reasoning.

Whataboutism here is unavoidable. Vingegaard is the perfect benchmark.

 

[Stablo]

Nah, people like Tom Dumoulin claimed Vinge's 2023 Combloux TT was the best TT ever. Better than Indurain in the heights of the EPO era by a 58Kg skeleton? It made me quite ill at the time. In 2024 Pogacar never made me feel ill like that day.

Nah that was still one day, hilly time trial with a high gradient climb at the end, those suit skinny riders. Very suspicious too certainly. Poggie beat a lot of EPO era records by a huge margin last year and at the same time did extra terrestial performances in every race he entered all season long. Nothing we have ever seen in the modern cycling era, you cant even compare to Merkcx etc. times when there was very little to none professionalism in the peloton.

 

[E_F_]

Should be a rule where posters declare their allegiance to riders. When we check posting history it makes more sense why some posters spend so much effort on wild unlikely conspiracy theories about motor doping and UCI collusion.

I have yet to be convinced that motors for sure aren't being used. Every time we talk about it, you always end up reverting to your old talking points. I'm receptive to arguments, but only if they're more specific than "the UCI wouldn't risk it" "no one's been caught" "a mechanic could find any motor" "why is no one compaining" "why aren't everyone using them." These arguments do not rule out the possibility of mechanical doping. They make it less likely, sure. But I just don't think they make it unlikely.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Sure, but motors? No.

Well, hopefully not! Cycling is about organic engine, otherwise it's motorsports and Marquez is the best then.

 

[Stablo]

Its is ridiculous to keep pushing this motor doping nonsense when there are more likely explanations.

So cause it's ridicilous to you, then no one is allowed to be suspicious and to speculate abt it, got it. It has been said and explained here many times, why the motor theory is almost as plausible as some sort of new super dope. And keeping in mind whos behind the team, I have no doubt they would use any possible way to make their golden boy beat the likes of Vinge etc. The results justify the means kind of people they are, no matter how many boundaries had to be crossed.

 

[Cookster15]

I have yet to be convinced that motors for sure aren't being used. Every time we talk about it, you always end up reverting to your old talking points. I'm receptive to arguments, but only if they're more specific than "the UCI wouldn't risk it" "no one's been caught" "a mechanic could find any motor" "why is no one compaining" "why aren't everyone using them." These arguments do not rule out the possibility of mechanical doping. They make it less likely, sure. But I just don't think they make it unlikely.

You are entitled to take that view as I am to reject it. Nothing wrong with my line of argument. Its is based upon simple facts, logic and reason. All of which are lacking with those suggesting Pogacar and Gianetti were using motors.