Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Raest]

Is that from Malazan?

I DNF'd on stage 2 on that one.

Yeap. It's not an easy series true

 

[Blobs]

If you put Vingegaard at 35-40 seconds instead of 2 minutes, would the time gaps on today's stage look all that crazy to you?

They would look even less crazy if every one else were also closer, but that's not what happened.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Where am I wrong ?

1) His trainer making fat loss programs ? FACT.

2) His Slovenian trainers having little experience at the WT level ? FACT.

3) Remco being trained by Belgium finest trainers since day 1 on a bike ? FACT.

Hope this is not being serious. Pogacar joined UAE in 2019 and went straight into the arms of Gianetti who had already been with UAE since 2017 and had already overseen a quite *remarkable* uptick in team performance in only two years. Believe me, Mauro has been getting Pogacar the best 'training' known to man. Gianetti isn't leaving anything to chance when it comes to golden boy and never has.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

The comparison to make isn't with previous years performances. The comparison to make is always the rest of a world class peloton that you are riding against today, say even just the top ten GC. Some of whom may or may not be doping or using other dubious if not yet banned methods to eke out a *tiny* advantage. The fact is that by any measure this performance makes it clear that Pogacar is a complete outlier in a sport whereby we used to talk about marginal gains as if it were some sort of evil witchcraft. Where winning a tour by 3 minutes caused eyebrows to be raised. Oh how young and naive we were. If everyone else is on Earth, Pogacar is to be located somewhere around Alpha Centauri. Indeed, if today is any guide and he were to continue to perform at this level for the rest of the tour, he would probably win it by around 15 - 20 minutes. It's that big a gap. But he won't do that of course because Mauro will tell him to try to not look so conspicuous as to risk provoking the ire of the French media, with spectators throwing urine bags at him. Saying that, we're getting to that stage. I expect the UAE PR department will be going into overdrive and love bombing the media with some very nice gifts and hospitiality.

Exactly! This was a beautiful stage with credible except for that one freak in front.

 

[jono]

They would look even less crazy if every one else were also closer, but that's not what happened.

Before the stage started, what time gap would have predicted to guys like Onley and Johanessen? For me it would have been much more than 3 minutes.

 

[noob]

I wonder why they even thought they needed Almeida in this race

 

[SHAD0W93]

I wonder why they even thought they needed Almeida in this race

1st and 2nd/3rd better than 1st and 16th.

 

[SorelyBoy]

But if we must make a comparison, then yeah, Pogacar having a totally normal one, nothing to see here.

Climb Times on Iconic Mountains (includes today's climb)

Climb	Armstrong (Year)	Time	Pogačar (Year)	Time
Alpe d’Huez	2004 (TT)	37:365	2022	39:12
Hautacam	2000s	~39–41 min	2025	~37:127
Col de Peyresourde	2004	~24:35	2020	~24:35

• Armstrong’s 2004 Alpe d’Huez time trial remains one of the fastest ever.
• Pogačar’s 2025 Hautacam ascent was a solo attack after a crash the day before, yet he still gained over 2 minutes on Vingegaard

Best Watts per Kilogram (W/kg)​

Rider	Peak W/kg (est.)	Context/Climb
Armstrong	~6.97 W/kg	Alpe d’Huez TT, 20042
Pogačar	~7.16 W/kg	Pla d’Adet, 2025 (sea-level normalized)

• Armstrong’s peak was during a time trial, which typically allows for higher sustained output due to pacing and lack of race fatigue.
• Pogačar’s 2025 performance was during a mountain stage after multiple climbs, making his numbers even more impressive in context.

 

[Blobs]

Before the stage started, what time gap would have predicted to guys like Onley and Johanessen? For me it would have been much more than 3 minutes.

Destroying the field by 2-3 minutes is huge. I think you've just mentally normalized Pogi's, otherwise not normal, domince in your head, and maybe underestimated a couple of other guys.

 

[jono]

Destroying the field by 2-3 minutes is huge. I think you've just mentally normalized Pogi's, otherwise not normal, domince in your head, and maybe underestimated a couple of other guys.

Very similar time gaps to the 2022 Hautacam stage.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I don't think the climbing time tells us too much either way. Pocagar launched right at the bottom with a thermonuclear attack. He kept increasing the gap and at any point in the last 5km could have eased up a little if they felt they didn't want to make things too obvious.

The major talking point today is how much worse visma has gotten. Either the CO rebreathing made a world of difference, or they've had to tone down their programme in general

 

[Mayomaniac]

I'll wait for the lanterne rouge numbers but if that's the case then Vingegaard has regressed tremendously over the past couple of years. He's done at least 3 climbs with efforts over 7 W/kg (though for 10-15min), the Combloux being one of them (though he had 2 prior to that) and he hasn't been close since his injry. I am afraid he's lost a step due to its severity, or they *** up their prep completely as a team (which is also possible since all of them are not doing well)

The fact that they are actually going after monoxide rebreathers/looking for them during controls?
Also every single team but UAE getting things wrong with the rocket fuel re-fueling is imo unlikely, unless UAE have protection because the state that is sponsoring the team is pretty much paying off the UCI by hosting all those various cycling WCs in the next few years.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Pogacar frequently lost against other Slovenian riders until he joined UAE. Generational talent

Every generational talent lost frequently since day 1

 

[Brullnux]

6.74 w/kg for 35 minutes per Lanterne Rouge. Lower level than last year, though not by much.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Destroying the field by 2-3 minutes is huge. I think you've just mentally normalized Pogi's, otherwise not normal, domince in your head, and maybe underestimated a couple of other guys.

Yep. Folks need to go and watch some Tour highlights from 2012 to 2019. Really….sloooowww. Attacks are very short and riders are spread out over the road but within shouting distance. There are some exceptions of course but very few. Red zones were actually a thing, as were maximum VO2 thresholds which were usually held by teams to discourage or control uphill attacks. Not so much a things these days with Pogacar able to destroy everyone inside a 400m acceleration and then ride away without having to back off.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't think the climbing time tells us too much either way. Pocagar launched right at the bottom with a thermonuclear attack. He kept increasing the gap and at any point in the last 5km could have eased up a little if they felt they didn't want to make things too obvious.

The major talking point today is how much worse visma has gotten. Either the CO rebreathing made a world of difference, or they've had to tone down their programme in general

Something is amiss with VISMA here. I agree.
Additionally, it depends how the race was played out. Today was the first stage in the mountains with a lot of heat. We'll see what happens in the rest of the Tour.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Something is amiss with VISMA here. I agree.
Additionally, it depends how the race was played out. Today was the first stage in the mountains with a lot of heat. We'll see what happens in the rest of the Tour.

Yes, leagues below PdB performance when Jorgenson had a long 7+ w/kg pull and Vingegaard was also super strong. Vingo's performance was also below his 2022 level (when they fought hard from Spendelles).

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Very similar time gaps to the 2022 Hautacam stage.

Is that the stage that was 6 km/h slower than today with the winner 1'26" slower than Pogacar today? Yeah, valid comparison.

 

[TrekCyclist]

I think we might need to get the mighty Riis out of retirement to challenge the Slovenian wonder boy.

 

[Blobs]

Very similar time gaps to the 2022 Hautacam stage.

Yes, and that was a huge performance. Go back and read what people were saying about Vingegaard back then.

And yet today Pogi was a lot faster.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think we might need to get the mighty Riis out of retirement to challenge the Slovenian wonder boy.

We need Eddy Merckx but unfortunately he has some problems with his hip.

 

[Mayomaniac]

What if Pogacar hadn’t wanted to break the record? He only wanted to humiliate Vingegaard, who beat him three years ago on the Hautacam, just like Armstrong used to do.


Even though this guy puts in a 'lesser' performance compared to PdB, he’s still way above people like Rasmussen, Riccò, and even Contador Super Saiyan.


This Tour is even more boring than those of Team Sky, now he just has to manage and forget about any other alien performances.

The guy is greedy af, only way to have him hold back is to give him less gear or a worse bike (like today).

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Yeah, he's obviously a laughable juicer but I actually have to say today almost doesn't really move the needle for me.

Bigger question is what the hell happened to Visma and seemingly half the peleton and why UAE was apparently not affected at all. I mean Vingegaard doesn't even put a minute into Johannessen and Onley on a 35+ minutes effort, these are normally the sort of stringe GC guys that were dropped on the previous climb. Yes it was hot but the pace on the previous climb was really soft.

UAE guys were bang average this Tour so far and suddenly there's 4 of them left and none from Visma. Very very weird turn of events, I'm happy that the Pogacar freak show will continue to receive scrutiny (still way too little) but I'd be really curious what actually happened behind the scenes today.

 

[ivanic]

I don't think the climbing time tells us too much either way. Pocagar launched right at the bottom with a thermonuclear attack. He kept increasing the gap and at any point in the last 5km could have eased up a little if they felt they didn't want to make things too obvious.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Yeah, he's obviously a laughable juicer but I actually have to say today almost doesn't really move the needle for me.

Bigger question is what the hell happened to Visma and seemingly half the peleton and why UAE was apparently not affected at all. I mean Vingegaard doesn't even put a minute into Johannessen and Onley on a 35+ minutes effort, these are normally the sort of stringe GC guys that were dropped on the previous climb. Yes it was hot but the pace on the previous climb was really soft.

UAE guys were bang average this Tour so far and suddenly there's 4 of them left and none from Visma. Very very weird turn of events, I'm happy that the Pogacar freak show will continue to receive scrutiny (still way too little) but I'd be really curious what actually happened behind the scenes today.

Vingegaard blew up chasing Mr Clean. He was only 42 seconds slower than in 2022 while averaging 41+ instead 35+. That was a fine performance.
Edit: he didn't have Kuss or WVA to pull him today.